I have a 11 Clubman S, which I recently upgraded to the JCW Stage 1 Tune kit. I have also added the NM Engineering Torque Arm Mount Insert.
Today I was coming home and had to hit the acceleration really hard and the car Lunged to the left and felt like it was airborne in the front before I managed to get it back under control I must say this startled me (almost pissed in my jeans) and was not expecting this response. I am unfamiliar with torque steer, I have always driven rw OR ALL WHEEL DRIVE cars in the past. Is this reaction normal and just something I need to be aware of? I love the power, but if it comes at a cost of unmanageable driving, then I am not sure I need/want it.

thanks,
Spencer

 

Torque Steer is common with most S and JCW Mini's. The only way around this is to baby the throttle. It can be managed if you expect it along with a better grip on the steering wheel.

 

So I thought the NM Torque Arm Mounts were suppose to eliminate the Torque Steer. I also thought the 11's had software in place to minimize it as well. This reaction by the car quite frankly alarmed me, since I just jumped on it like I do my Audi or even my prior truck .So it is like you have this power, but make sure ypu do not use it, or use it very carefully. I spent all this money on the Stage 1 kit, but now I have to be very careful how i attempt to use it. Perhaps the Mini is not the car for me

Spencer

 

Any front wheel driven motor vehicle with any power will have torque Steer.

 

Even my wussy Justa pulls to one side a bit when I hammer the gas in low gears. I get the impression this is just the way it is, and I'm sure more pronounced with the S. I think you just get used to it and hold the wheel a little more firmly when you're putting the hammer down.

 

Do you still have the OEM run-flat tires on the Clubman?
Getting rid of those will help in combating the torque steer.

But honestly, I think you're overly twitching on a platform that can put down power with FWD.
I'm been in several FWD platforms through my driving experience, and the Cooper isn't bad compared to other hot hatches (like the MazdaSpeed3).

- Erik

 

Agree with Erik on the reality that runflats exacerbate the torque... on that note I took that advice of another forum member and inflate mine to around 37 or 38 depending on how hot it is outside.

Wait till you floor it going around a corner and actually hit a little lip or something that gets you just a bit airborne... then you'll really pizz yourself!!

I'm looking forward to my runflats dying a natural death so that they can be replaced...

cheers.

 

Practice with it. You may find that it was the combination of a lunge and a bump that surprised you and exaggerated the issue. If a bit of practice doesn't restore your confidence in your handling, then an FWD performance car isn't for you.

 

Replacing my run flats made a big difference for me. Also as tippykayak said once you get used to it, you handle it better, all part of a FWD car.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Perhaps it did startled me and I just made it worse with my reactions. Who knows. Once the run flats are bit more used, I will look into replacing them, but that is probably a year or so off. I am perplexed thou by the Torque steer product I bought from WMW and NM engineering. Did I misunderstand the function of that product in reducing/eliminating torque steer. Or would it have been worse without it on the car?

Again thanks for the feedback. This is my first FWD car and it does take some adjusting

 

The motor mount doesn't eliminate torque steer, it just reduces engine rock, or engine movement during acceleration and shifting. I think this can HELP with torque steer, but certainly doesn't eliminate it. Nothing will, unfortunately, so hold on!

 

Any FWD car with a tansverse mounted engine or unequal length driveshafts will have torque steer. B5 Passats and B5 FWD Audis have ZERO torque steer or bump steer. There are others but I'm very familiar with these cars in particular.

 

It's just the nature of the MINI. Car and Driver recently did a six car shootout for handling, and the JCW MINI finished 5th because of its torque steer, bump steer, and twitchiness (this was a 2012 with anti-torque steer programming). But it did outdo the GTI.

Here's the page on the MINI in the article:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-works-page-3

Driving my S is fun, but like another poster said you really need to watch your throttle in order to not frighten the steering. My other car is a 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera, which is very light up front (so it exhibits some of the bump steer/twitchiness in hard cornering of the MINI, as a result, though is overall more stable) but is RWD, and the difference driving without torque steer is very noticeable. Still, the MINI is a blast to drive in its own interesting way.

 

I replaced the run-flats with non run-flats and the torque steer is somewhat diminished. However the bump steer is still pretty pronounced. Just make sure you're holding on to the wheel when you accelerate :D

In recent memory I've owned a mkIV GTI, B5.5 Passat and a Saab 9-5 - all front drivers and the MINI is definitely the king of torque/bump steer but it's so much more fun than all of the others (well maybe the GTI was more fun when I wasn't grenading my K04 turbos...) that it's worth it.

 

I have the 2009 Clubman Diesel that throws down 240Nm of torque. Due to the diesel engine it's heavier in the front end than the S or JCW variants and it has major torque steer especially when the turbo spools up. The Clubman D throws down so much torque I regularly beat BMW 3 and 5 series cars at the lights.

I make sure to regularly rotate and replace the tires and I have alignment checks done once per year in the spring. The car will actually lurch if I hit a decent sized bump at anything above 30 km/hr.

I'd say what you're experiencing is quite normal, especially if you have the sport tuned suspension. Understand that these are performance cars with small, lightweight chassis, you're going to get thrown around a little.

 

I noticed much less torque/bump steer in my R56 after I got rid of the runflats so I'm sure that is part of it, so expect a little improvement when you run through those and get some new shoes. Unfortunately though power management is something you have to learn to do in almost any car. Different quirks are present in many different vehicles. Hell, I pitched a stock miata on slicks sideways using the throttle upon entering corners (on track, of course) so it's all about how you manage what you have. The MINIs are just a little different and takes some getting used to.

 

Dating myself here but I test drove an Eclipse turbo the first year it was introduced. The dealer was working by himself and made the prudent? decision to let a 16 year old kid out alone with the car. Had never driven a turbo or a fwd car before and when the turbo spooled up, the car bucked to the right and scared the crap out of me. All fwd cars with any sort of fun factor will do this. Just keep 2 hands on the wheel.

 

Generally true, but not universally. The Citroen DS, SM (longitudinal FWD) exhibited 0 torque steer, as did later models such as the Citroen CX, BX, XM, etc. It mostly has to do with road wheel offset geometry ( 0 wheel offset in the case of most Citroens), along with other alignment and steering configurations such as intermediate drive shafts, tie rod pivot points, etc.

 

Put it in sport mode so you have closer control of the throttle input. The non sport throttle tables sucks and introduce throttle input AFTER youve put your foot where you want it. Throttle by wire sucks a lot.

 

Iwouldnt say they are that sport tuned, unless your gonna compare them to a Ford Taurus's, but you are right,....

you should feel the torque steer from an 89 CRX with an H22a swap, even with a semi-full suspension upgrades.
Ive driven SRT-4's and they have the same torque steer issue as well. Even with good tires it doesnt eliminate it. Its part of these platforms

 

Frankly, I do not notice torque steer in my 2008 Clubman S even with an AP Stage 1 93 Octane Tune. However, I am the former owner of 2 Taurus SHOs - now those cars had TORQUE STEER in spades. In comparison, the Clubbie is a pussycat...

 

I had around 270 ft-lbs of torque to the wheels in my R56 and almost had 0 torque steer. Lowering the car seems to help, along with an LSD. If the wheel was pointed straight and the road was level...it would just go straight when you floor it. I could almost completely take my hands off the wheel and still have faith that it would not be all over the road.

Dunno why some have complain of bad torque steer while others have next to none. Alignment also plays a big role here....

 

+! Before NM springs the car ricochets from one bump to another. An endless array of steering corrections just like they said in the article. Torque steer when you jump on it is pretty bad. Not so bad if you roll the throttle on.

After NM springs it takes some kind of problem to trigger it. A big loss of traction on one side for example. The car is much more composed, rides smoother since you are finally off the bumpstops (if you trimmed them like you were supposed to). I would say the problem is 90% gone so it is a large gain of control. Next step is some non run flat Michelin supersports and then Bilstiens will be the final dagger to eliminate it for good.

The bumpstops are what makes it twitchy (since stock the car rests on them) but you need heavier springs to compensate if you cut the bumpstops.

 

Interesting! Is there a way to get rid of the bumpstops without lowering the car? I just don't wanna lower it, as the look doesn't suit me, personally. Does anyone make heavier springs that don't lower the car?

If I decide to keep my rattling little MINI I might be interested in this, if the cost isn't too outrageous.

 

My justa clubman without run flats and without the sports package is pretty damn jumpy as well and like others said, a small bump can really make the car feel air born. For example, when I am entering the highway with some speed on the bumpy LA roads, the steering gets squirrelly for sure.