How's it going everyone?

I've been lurking on the site for some time now, and just recently decided to register after coming to the conclusion that I'll most likely be picking up a Clubman once I return home from my current deployment.

That being said, I'm trying to find out which year(s), options, trim levels, etc. are best when it comes to the Clubman, as-well-as pricing. I'll be buying used, and I'm looking for a JCW if possible.


From what I've read so far, I understand that the pre-2011 (2008-2010) Clubman's had some problems with the N14 motor. Timing chain issues, carbon buildup issues, and a few other odds and ends.

The 2011+ Clubman with the N18 motor seems to have been a great upgrade. I haven't seen the same complaints/issues with these, but perhaps it's still too early to tell?


I come from 10yrs of being into Hondas. I've built them, raced them, and I know them inside and out. I just feel as though I'm needing just one well rounded car that will suit me not only now, but in the future as well. The JCW Clubman seems to fit quite nicely for that. Newer, good gas mileage, still sporty and quick with the JCW upgrades, but more practical with the longer wheel base and room. With the third door for easier access for getting my son in and out, I don't know another car that compares.

I've looked at four door GTI's, MazdaSpeed 3, and a few others as well, but they still feel like "boy racer" cars to me, and you see them everywhere. The Clubman is very unique, and I like cars that are a little different.


I guess my real question would be, is my logic on getting a 2011+ sound? Or are the pre-2011's really not all that bad? I've seen a few 2010 JCW's for sale, but I'm just nervous about owning one with the N14.

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

I was in the same boat as you almost a year ago. I also looked and test drove multiple times the GTI, Mazda3 and Focus ST. None felt more fun or "tight" as the ClubmanS. Yeah, on paper its not as good as the others, but it had the fun factor. Anyhow, I'd go for the 2011+ if you are thinking about keeping the car for a long time, but you need to be realistic in comparing longevity with the almost bullet proof and relatively easy to work on Hondas....especially if you are thinking about the JCW. but having said all that, I am only going on hearsay concerning the JCW reliability/longevity. I can tell you that my ClubmanS has only had some fit and finish issues so far (1 year 12K) and no mechanical issues, but then 12k is practically still a new car.

 

If you look at a pre LCI ('11) car, the N14 isn't a bad motor. IMO it had some teething issues in '07-'08 but if you look for a '09 or '10+ R55 you will be in better shape. I too did the same thing, I had an R56 that had a timing chain and guide rials replaced under warranty but I wanted room and a longer warranty. I bought a '10 that had more options, way less miles and it was CPO. I would push for a MINI NEXT (CPO) car for the 6yr 100k warranty. You might find a '10 for cheaper or similar price '11 but with more options and since a MINI can be "youified" so easily it's fun to change stuff or mod things but starting with the basic options that you want/need is essential (Xenons for instance are a requirement, HK stereo if you don't want to do aftermarket (really only one kit for that on the market as the stereo is a pain to work on/change), or anthracite headliner as the stock grey headliner changed to beige in the past year or two I think).

It's all a matter of personal preference, but look for a low-mile car that you can afford that has service or maintenance records.

 

Thanks for the info guys.

I'll have to do some more digging it seems. The internet over here won't let me look up any specific local dealerships, so all I can look at it Carmax. They have three JCW Clubmans, but they are all 2010. The best one having 31k on it, looks nice, and it is tempting. I'm just stuck on the motor issue.

I do plan on getting an extended warranty on whatever I do find just in case, but I'm hard pressed knowing I'll actually need to use it more than likely on the N14. However, I'm not sure what carmax offers for one, or if they even do. A CPO is obviously the best choice if I can find one.

I think like 6thGrear said though, if I'm looking at this car to be something I'm going to have for a longer amount of time (which I am), I should really look at the 2011+ for the more reliable motor (thus far). I am a mechanic with 10yrs experience as well, so I'm hoping I'll be able to handle most problems myself, but the piece of mind of the N18 seems dumb not to get.

 

When I was shopping around last year I looked into Carmax. They actually have a decent warranty package where you can take it to any dealer of your choice should you need warranty work. I think the catch is that Carmax has to approve of the work needed, but dont quote me on this.

 

I bought my 2010 last year from a MINI dealership. Found it listed on Cars.com

Mine is just a Cooper S and had 29k miles on it. I've since put 10k on it and i have had zero issues with the motor. I also went ahead and purchased the extended warranty so i'm good until 2016 or 100k miles. The Clubman is the most fun car i've had since my 2000 Honda Prelude.

 

I would definitely spend time with the configurator on MINIUSA to get to know the options and packages available. Once you get familiar with the options and packages you can not only decide on what you want, but you also get an idea on the pricing difference as well as get the hang of spotting what a used vehicle has. I can tell what the car has by sight in most cases and even tell you the packages it has. Also, if you use this site:

http://www.bmwarchiv.de/vin/bmw-vin-decoder.html

you'll see everything as well.

I've been hunting on Autotrader for a few months now. I first was looking for a used Clubman for myself until I found out insurance covered a new one. Still before I found that out I'd found that out I'd found a used a Clubman that was pretty well loaded, one owner and kept in a garage and with low miles. Even a color combo I liked. It was really well priced. Since then I've been looking at Countryman for my Dad. He eventually settled on one, but I found a few that were great deals and in some cases the dealerships didn't even know the options the car had. More recently I was looking for a Roadster for my Mom. Found an absolute steal, but she waited a day and it was gone the next day. Found a Convertible, now that's gone. Found a ridiculous deal on a Paceman, now just the other day another dealer grabbed it and marked it up about $6000. These were all 2012-2013s (the Roadster and Paceman were 2013s for example) with less than 15,000 miles (less than 10,000 miles in almost every case - the Countryman my Dad got had 2500 miles). Anyway, point is you can find a good used one if you know what you're looking at and can get a gauge of the market. You'll have to do some homework and research and you wont' get it done in an hour either, but once you get the hang of the options, packages and how to spot them you can do a quick search in minutes and then it's just a matter of waiting 'til you find a good one.

 

I purchased a 2011 clubman last March. It had 22K on it. I used cargurus.com to search for cars within 500 miles of my zip. On this website you can put in your parameters and have it email you daily or weekly updates. I assume other sites can do this as well. I didn't want to spend too much time searching daily. It worked for me.

One of the decisions I made was to focus on MINI certified. My reasoning was that it was less likely to have a known history and I was correct on that point. The dealership printed out the entire service history of the car.

As for the '11 over earlier model years, I read this forum carefully and it really seemed that the rate of problems for pre'11 model year were different even taking into consideration the age of the car. At least that was my read!

By the way, the car I purchased was just over 200 miles away (Birmingham AL). I was very pleased with the entire experience.

 

A few more things:

I'm hesitant giving this one away, but I'm not really looking anyway, but the better deals were pretty much always at non-MINI dealerships. They simply don't know or don't do the homework on the options or in some cases the market value. I found plenty of cars that had leather and they didn't even know it. Chrome line interior and anthracite headliner are also common misses, but then they're less common options too. That used Paceman I mentioned, the rims were a $1900 option and the dealer didn't know that either. Oh, and you might even get free tinting too. My Dad loves the tinting on his Countryman and it just came with it since it was used. Ditto for his mirror caps and rims.

As for options, it can be tough finding exactly what you want if you're buying used. A few things I like/love:

-Xenons. So glad I got them the second time around. I live in the city and don't need them entirely, but in the country they're great.
-Chrome line interior. Really makes the interior look and feel a lot richer. It's purely cosmetic and only a $250 option, but the interior looks more than $250 richer as a result.
-Climate Control. Don't know why, but I like this. Just set it and leave it 99% of the time.
-Heater seats. Living in WI they come in handy enough. Don't use them a ton, but nice to have.
-Anthracite headliner. I'm glad I went this route and depending on the rest of the interior it makes the interior look better. However this isn't one I'd lose much sleep over. If you can find it all the better though.
-Leatherette seats. I love them. Still buying used you might be able to find leather. Again, I did on a good amount of used cars with leather. Still leatherette is great and I wouldn't sweat it.
-Parking distance control/rear sensors. Don't have this, but I would get it next go round. Never really needed it, but you never know. And with just one reverse light on the cars...

Things I would skip:

-MINI connected. My Dad's countryman has this. Can't stand it. Easy to figure out (not for him, so if you're not technically inclined it isn't), but it's needless. Slow and doesn't add anything. I dont' need to see the album cover of my music playing. My iPhone works just fine without MINI connected in my Clubman. On top of that it ruins the look of the center speedo.
-Navigation. Now I've never driving a MINI with it nor do I have it, but if you've got a smartphone surely it's not necessary. Again, ruins the speedo look too.

 

Don't forget the JCW has an N14 engine up through 2012, which is what I intentionally bought since the tuning option are extremely limited for the N18 engines (vs kind of limited for the N14's).

Probably heresy to make the point, but the mechanical differences between the two engines aren't that dramatic, with the N18 having a more advance variable valve train. I wouldn't say adding complexity buys you any more reliability but a lot of the other parts have already been through their entire rework/recall/warranty issue cycle and newer cars will have the latest running engineering changes incorporated. Which will save you the trouble of having to fix it later on.

 

We disagree on this. I think the nav screen in the center of the speedometer is a huge improvement over my previous Mini. For my taste it fills in a lot of wasted space. Also really like the cover art when playing tracks from my phone. Definitely not a must have but something I enjoy.

 

@BLAUGRANA has some great points on things to look for. Most non-mini dealers don't really know what options the cars have since there are so many. I found a few in mine that weren't listed (like powerfold mirrors - I think they are an option not standard?).

that said, when it comes to used, there jsut don't seem to be a ton of them out there. I just bought mine a little under a month ago. It is a '11 Clubman S (bought the 11 after a few suggestions, and fear of some of the issues the 07-08's are having). It had 18000 miles, and I paid just under $22k (also, its an automatic, which made the price slightly higher). It has a panoramic sunroof. Regular stereo, bluetooth, 16" alloy 6-spoke wheels. So far I absolutely love it and am totally addicted to it But when I was looking for a car, according to every site I tried, it was the ONLY 2011 Clubman S within a 100 mile radius. So holding out for a JCW, especially a used one, might take a while. Might depend on when you get back though - maybe by then, more will be on the market.

 

@BLAUGRANA is right about the pricing at non-mini dealerships, but it comes at a possible cost. If they don't know the positives about the car, then they don't know the negatives either. If you are mechanically skilled or knowledgeable, then you might have a big advantage.

I also agree with much of @BLAUGRANA's options list. I have, but am not crazy about the chrome accents. Looks good, but tend to create reflections in the side mirrors. My wife's car (VW) has a back up camera and she loves it. I personally find no benefit from the camera.

 

By all means, to each their own. I actually love the huge speedo. Being as picky as I am I like it to look a bit richer and slightly different (like the hand for example), but not much. For me it's one of those MINI quirks that I just love. Hence my opting for a Clubman.



I actually would like MINI connected more were it a touch screen. If it functioned like an iPhone or an iPad I think it'd be so much nicer. Still not sure I'd sacrfice my center speedo, though when they go through and change the interior in the future I would.



You don't. I checked AutoTrader earlier and at quick glance nothing really jumped out at me as a great buy. I was looking at the cheaper ones though and I had specific search options like "2012 or newer", "automatic transmission" and "under 15,000 miles".


It makes sense though since Clubmans just don't sell as well. A lot more Coopers and Countrymans out there to choose from. Still amazed at the Roadster I found.


BTW, if anyone is interested, that Paceman turned up again. 2013 with ~$38,000 sticker price at a huge discount and low miles. I have no ties to the sale whatsoever and just noticed when I was looking for my Dad. Considered it myself, but then it'd mean trading in my Clubman and I'm happy with my rid.

Anyway, some of the deals require some travel. We had to travel about 45 minutes for my Dad's Countryman, which is nothing. Before that though we'd made an hour trip and about a two hour trip (each way) to look at two more. The longest trip we'd called ahead on asked some questions and the dealer (a MINI dealer) didn't give and accurate description. Still that Roadster I'd found would have meant a five hour trip each way, but I know having not even seen the car it would have been well worth it.

Yeah, I think that's a fair point for the most part. Still you do have tools that you can use like Carfax/AutoCheck. They only tell you so much, but if it's a low mile vehicle too you probably have less risk. You can also query the dealer. We got the Countryman from a used dealer who said it was owned by a family who has since traded in the Countryman's replacement too. Sounds like they have money and my Dad's Countryman only had 2500 miles and not a scratch, nick or ding anywhere. Carfax also told us how long the dealer had been sitting on it. They even told us after they reluctantly agreed to my Mom's take it or leave it offer that they were in the red on the vehicle. That Roadster I'd found for my Mom was a 2013 with 780 miles and apparently the guy traded that and his Jeep for some big Jeep he'd really wanted in the end. Anyway, you can even use Carchex if you're not mechanically inclined like I am not. Also you've got a good warranty balance depending on what you find.

Have to say I'm also not inclined to just trust the MINI dealer either. I mean if it's not CPO who knows what you'll get. Also, I think a good amount of dealerships performance necessary maintenance. The dealership we got my Dad's from was huge with separate garages. They deal mostly with GM cars, but still have plenty of services and even tried to add on their version of Xzylon.

Camera isn't necessary and I've never needed/had it. Still I put a bit of scrape on my rim. I had to get up really early in the morning and move my car and paralleled a bit too close to the curb. Not sure it would have helped though. If I were considering a Coupe, Roadster and possibly a Paceman I'd consider it though. Anyway, my take on options is two-fold: 1) You can live without anything you don't already have and conversely 2) you're stuck in most cases (or it'd cost a lot to add them later) if you don't take the option when you can.

ONE MORE OPTION I'D ADD:

-Center armrest: Almost a must for me. I've read my fair share of complaints on it sliding open or whatever, but I've never had that problem. Ever, and I'm on my second Clubman. Funny thing is, I'm usually too engrossed in driving and have both hands on the wheel to use it all that often, but when I do I'm glad it's there.

 

+1 on the armrest. Easy to add after the fact though.

 

Some great information guys! Thanks for all the input.

The main 'goal' for this car is to upgrade to something newer, and a little nicer (for my wife and my son), but still be fun and something I enjoy driving as well. It doesn't have to be super fast (otherwise I'd be looking more into the 4-door GTI), but I still want it quick. The JCW thing is more because of what it means and would just make me appreciate the car that much more knowing it's the highest model. BUT, as long as I can fit a baby seat in the backseat, and my golf clubs in the rear, I'm good to go.

That's honestly my biggest concern...space. I know the GTI is much larger, but those with personal experience, can you tell me just how much room this thing has? I don't like folding down the seats as an option since it will have my son from time to time. Any photos with a rear facing child seat by a chance? The only thing the back will ever see is a stroller, bags for trips, groceries, my golf clubs, and my military gear. These should all fit no problems without having to fold the seats down, right?

As far as options are concerned, my main ones are the HID headlights, panoramic sunroof, headliner, arm rest, and maybe full leather seats. I don't see the need for any backup camera, GPS, folding mirrors, etc. I wouldn't use them anyway.

I didn't know that the N14 was still used in the JCW after 2010. I agree that, from production, MINI probably addressed the issues that haunted the earlier models (or so I would hope) in the newer models. How are the tuning options more limited on the N18 though?

I like the JCW for one, because of the actual internal differences in the motor. The fact that they reworked them for higher HP, vs just upping the boost or adding a bigger turbo shows me the extra effort/time/money MINI was willing to use to make sure the motor could handle the upgrades. Either that, or they knew the stock S model motor wouldn't handle more power. Coupled with the other performance upgrades (Brembo brakes, suspension, exhaust, etc.), it's hard not to like it.

That being said, I am a little hard pressed to find one. BUT, could anyone give me a little more insight on maybe just the S model with the JCW stage 1 tune? I would maybe think the 2011+ N18 S model with the JCW stage 1 would be a decent set up maybe.

I just don't know if I would like it as much just knowing it wasn't JCW. Maybe my thinking on that is because it's a car you don't see often, and to have an even more rare factory upgraded version, makes it that much more appealing. It would be something I'd be very reluctant to get rid of. There is still the dark silver 2010 JCW local with 31k for $23,000 at Carmax. Knowing the newer ones still have the N14, the pre/post 2011 for the JCW doesn't matter.. Is it worth it?

I'll check around on some other websites to see if I can find some other options out there. I have only a couple of months left over here, so maybe it's enough time to find something just right.

I'll be honest, I have been somewhat looking at the Countryman and I like it as well. More space, 4 real doors, AWD, etc. However, It's not as unique as the Clubman, and that's one of the most appealing things to me. Otherwise I'd go look at a smaller crossover SUV like the Buick Encore, or wait until next year and get the Honda Urban SUV they're coming out with. I'm a car guy though, so I need something more exciting So it's either this or the GTI, or I go soccer dad style and get a crossover SUV.


So I guess my next series of questions are:
-What has been some personal experiences with how much room it realistically has (baby seat, cargo area)?
-Is having a JCW really that much different and/or worth it?
-Do you thing a stage 1 S model N18 motor would be 'enough' ?
-2010 JCW vs 2011+ S with stage 1? Which would you pick, and why?

Thanks again everyone!

 

My kids are grown and in booster seats now. I think i read that you do need at least the clubman to get a rear facing seat. With that said- how old is your kid? Because they are really only in the rear facing seat for a year, before you turn the seat around. And what is your time frame for buying the car? The best way to check it out for sure though is to just install it in one and make sure yours fits. One last thing to think about- the third door on the clubman might be a ROYAL pain in the a$$ to crawl into to secure your child. I had a honda element with a similar door style, and it was quite difficult to have to put the child in back there on a regular basis. That said- have you thought about a countryman?

That said, i wish you luck finding whichever type you decide on. You wont really know u til you drive it. Maybe you should look at a new one too, just so you get exactly what options you want?

 

N18 engine cars have different ECU encryption, which no one seems to be able to unlock. The N18 will also likely be a relatively low volume engine (even more expensive parts) since it is being phased out by BMW's own engine.

 

Meant to post a pic. If it helps? Also, yes the clubbie has a useable "trunk" space, but dont expect a full costco run to fit back there!

 

Thanks for the photo! A booster seat seems to have plenty of room. My son, however, has special needs. He has growth issues, so the rear facing seat will be around for a while. He's 4 now, but is only 20lbs. I'm certainly going to take the seat I have to see how it will work when I get home. I hope it will work. The Countryman is nice, but it lacks the uniqueness the Clubman has.

I appreciate the info on the N18 ignitionmodule. I figured the N18 was going to be an upgrade from the N14. I wonder how it would be once someone does figure it out. I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

 

Yea no problem. Id be happy to measure it out later (back seat and trunk) a little later when i have my tape measure and such, if that would help. Good luck to the little guy too! Make sure you test it out when parked next to another car (not parallel parked) and try to get the carseat in with the third door open. Just sayin'

I agree with you about clubman vs countryman. I was looking at both, and the clubman IS more exciting to drive

 

I have no experience with child seats. My daughters (15 & 18) have no problems sitting in the back. I do think that a special needs child might necessitate full rear doors. Space is one issue. Gaining needed access to the rear facing seat is a separate issue.

As for space in the back, I like the amount of space in the clubman. I have no difficulties with space when going to Costco, taking my daughters to school, etc. I have put the seat down to put my bike in the back. I think the golf clubs might require the seat being down.

I might also chime in on the arm rest. I wanted one, but the used clubman I bought did not have it. To tell you the truth, I don't miss it. In fact I am glad I don't have it. I think I have better access to the rear seat and the cup holder. I do drive a manual. My hand often rests on the shifter or the hand break even on long trips.

I Is the JCW different from the S? Yes. have an S. JCW would be fun, but actually it doesn't fit how I need/drive the car. I live in Memphis an most of my driving is on city streets.

 

Golf clubs won't fit without putting the seat down

 

I loved my Cooper S, but I love my kids more. If you are going to have regular passengers in the rear take a look at my last post...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...al-friend.html

 

I'll ask this to add to the list of questions. I need a new Mini. I found an '09 Clubman JCW with 100K. What kind of issues should I be looking for? Is the high mileage too risky? Any advice would be great!