And there ya have it. Thanks for the link.

 

O.k so follow up, I finally got a call back from Mini. They said that they are going to cover the timing chain and tensioner, but then quoted me a $1,900+ dollar estimate to fix the water pump and oil filter housing. They told me that they will do the fix but I needed to either do one of both of the other repairs at the same time because I needed to have and I quote "skin in the game." Skin in the game? I just put $3k out as a down payment getting into the stupid car in the first place and I don't have skin in the game?

Honestly this has turned into a nightmare and I am shocked that such a small motor has such expensive parts and the labor to fix it is so astronomical. I could understand if it was one of the Ferrari's I work around daily, or our Aventador which I just had to order front brake pads which came out to $3,500 for just the fronts...but my gosh.

I was truly spoiled with my last car, I could literally fix anything on my 04 GTO for cheap and working on it myself or showing friends how to help me was a cake walk.

 

Gotta sat 4k was pretty steep.

 

If you didn't authorize the work, you never should have paid them. Oil change is $50 tops. Sorry to hear this. I'm waiting to hear back from an Atlanta dealer to see if ours is actually covered.

 

Luckily I didn't authorize them to fix anything as I found a BMW specialist who charges half what the dealer will charge. I hope they cover yours, I had to make a lot of noise to actually get them to cover part of mine, so if they decline you don't take no for an answer.

 

Why are you so sure all this work needs to be done? Get a second opinion.

 

I can hear the timing chain making noise, but you are right about the rest of it and I appreciate the advice.

 

My gosh. That is a real shame. It is great that you were at least able to get the timing chain taken care of. I do not believe the the SA was unaware of the timing chain recall. It is a VERY well known issue.
It is terrible that the turbo engines are so plagued with problems, and that MINIUSA is sometimes so difficult to deal with. They may be their own worst enemy. One would expect better in this age of the internet.
Best of luck to you. Thank you for making us aware.

 

Thanks for showing this.. good point and good article.. ive been very lucky with all my MINI's.. But even with the new F56 coming out everyone should beaware that im sure there will be problems with there motors also..just the nature of the beast..

 

I called the Mini customer relations line posted earlier in the thread. He told me the car has 3 recalls which will all be covered for free. Timing chain tensioner, turbo heat shield and water pump. I just hope we get a good tech at the dealer. Thanks again NAM!

 

Skin in the game? That's total ********. Was that Mini USA, or the Las Vegas dealer that has been lying to you from the outset?

I've turned up some TSB's that may apply to your car; print and use to smack the Service Writer over the head. (Remember, his job isn't to take care of you. His job is to sell repairs.)

Rattle noise from engine: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q0yvupim4hamjmd/SIM110207.pdf

Whistling noise from water pump: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9q8mctsnaekn2vo/SIM110309.pdf

Clicking noise from rear suspension: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hsbpbr3d8kemdr8/SIM330110.pdf

High pressure fuel pump leak: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qaz8q99cporwbgd/SIM130108.pdf

List of all MINi Gen 2 TSB's: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxn24g1jq0...0Bulletins.pdf

(I forgot I had these. I wish I had remembered them back in Dec!)

I'm still sorry to hear you're leaving the Mini circle, but after such a horrific and exploitive dealer experience, who could possibly blame you? I hope you will take the time to send a letter to Mini USA; they should know what the Vegas dealer puts customers through and how that is affecting the brand reputation. In any case— Good luck with your next car!

 

Is there realy anyone out there so naive as to believe that Mini USA doesent monitor these forums and has no clue whats going on?
It's easy to just blame a certain dealership for poor customer support but with so many Mini Cooper dealeships out there seemingly on the same page when it comes to poor customer support/customer rip offs and Mini Cooper taking so excruciatingly long to finnaly address the timing chain issue, it is beyond obvious to me that Mini Cooper USA is and has been totaly aware of all of this.
You would think an premier auto manufacture such as BMW/MiniCooper would insist on thier franchised dealerships meeting strict customer support standards, but such does not appear to be the case.
It's good that Mini is finnaly stepping up to take care of some of these issues, but given the length of time it took and the fact that it only happened after the Mini Cooper was classified as on of the most unreliable casr one could choose to purchase, it only shows me that BMW/Mini Coopers concern for their customers stops at thier pocket books.
If not for all the complaints on forums such as this one and getting the truth out there to an unsuspecting potential customer base that serious problems exsist with these cars, I absolutely believe nothing would have ever been done about all these problems and I am adamant that exposing those bad dealerships out there will not only help potential Mini Cooper customers but those good dealerships who are also being hurt by these bad apples.

 

I have a 09 Justa with 63K trouble free miles. As I flip through the various forums on the North American Motoring site I find that the majority of the issues seem to deal with the "S" models. When I had my base Cooper in a couple of years ago for it's free maintenance check I got a new "S" as loaner for the day. The performance compared to my base was obvious but I am thankful after reading the various threads that concern "S" that I purchased a base.

 

First of all I am truly sorry you are experiencing these issues with your Clubman.

I might impart a few bits of personal wisdom here from my experiences

We all have to remeber the car is used and there probably no way to tell how the first owner drove the it Some cars hold up better to hard drivers than others and this is part of the problem. Mini and BMW owners have never been shy about driving hard, This is what makes them so fun. But a used car is like Russian roulette at times, you never know what you are going to get.

A case in point is my sister picked up a used Camry with only 40K on the odometer only to have the motor go bad at 50K. It turns out the prior owner never changed the oil on the car... EVER... just kept topping it off I guess. Is a Toyota bad car? Generally no, BUT the previous owner abused the car and the second buyer paid the price. BTW Toyota had no interest in assisting the second owner. It was not thier problem since they didn't sell the car to the second owner.

So with that said, any used car can have issues. The only way to try and avoid the potential issues is to probably buy with a CPO warranty, where the automaker stands behind the car. In MINI's case the CPO warranty extends out to 6 years or 100k. A heck of a deal if you buy a low mileage CPO car.

Also you have to keep in mind that car forums are full of people with problems. (even the Toyota and Honda forums). Issues with any brand will surface here before anywhere else. Just go cruise the Honda forums and you will find rust issues, and powertrain issues galore. So don't think this is unique to a MINI or BMW.

The best advise is to approach MINI and plead your case. The two MINI dealers near me are unbelievable in service but then again they are here to make money and can only go so far. This is where the regional office comes into play.

What can a well written letter do? Over the years I had had my own issues but simple letters with documentation have served me well. One even got an entirely new motor for a 5 year old VW after a timing belt failure. I had my ducks in a row with documentation and VW (At the time not known for good customer service) sided with me in the case. So I can say it does work. If you get too caught in it ask a friend to proofread and help you maintain your objective.

Also MINI is VERY aware of social feeds such a Twitter and Facebook, believe me they watch these like a hawk. The whole idea is to be honest take it to the right people. all it takes is the right person to hear your case so post about your issues.

Good luck with this.

 

Thanks so much man! That was my local dealer, he said that he had some regional people from Mini there that day and he was going to talk to them about this and seeing if he could get them to help me by any means. So ya it wasn't enough I just put down $3k to get into the car, I needed to have more skin in the game.

I really appreciate all the information you dug up, it was extremely helpful to me and hopefully those who search this in the future can benefit from it as well.

I've been building and racing cars for a very long time and am currently Admin on several internet web boards for various cars I've had in the past and started posting on these back when these all got started in the late 90's. I find it very funny to watch when someone writes their first and only post in a thread such as this that's so well thought out and detailed with info only a dealer or employee of Mini/BMW would know trying to pass themselves off as just a passerby.

It's not even worth wasting time replying to what you've said. I just regret I didn't dig deeper in these forums then I did before I bought the car because had I gone to pages four or five I would have found the many threads about the problems these cars have with BMW/Mini giving you the finger, and never bought this nightmare.

 

@ Johnny Bravo

I was simply trying to provide a bit of uninvolved perspective.

The point is that any used car is a gamble. As much as I enjoy my MINI, the cold hard truth is that they consistently rate near the bottom in almost every reliability study out there. If reliability is a major concern for any buyer (and who isn't concerned about it?) then a CPO car is the only option for most brands not just Mini.

Again I do feel you pain in this having learned my lessons the hard way with other brands. (Toyota was a bitter pill, I will never forget) However in any situation calm and cold hard facts will prevail over heated emotion and complaints (no matter how justified it might be). Again I do not feel you efforts are in vain, however you MINI dealer isn't doing you any favors. So if it were me I would approach the regional office go from there. They have resources that the dealership does not.

I know this is too late right now, but many insurance companies have policy addendum's for catastrophic mechanical failures. In The case of my MINI is is $80 a year. If the engine or transmission packs it up, they pay. Just had a member of our local group have a $2600 partial engine failure paid for by Geico. A heck of a lot cheaper than many dealer sold plans.

Again, the best of luck in this endeavor and I certainly hope that MINI does assist in this manner.

 

Mini of Las Vegas sucks a**. Same issue with my 08 Clubman S. Went to an independent repair shop and was diagnosed with a bad chain. Saw that Mini was fixing for free. Called Desert Mini and was told yes. Brought the car in, ran the VIN was told no. Showed them the repair estimate from the other shop. They basically tore down the engine to discover that the timing guides were broken. I called Mini USA and explained the issue. First customer service employee was very nice and transferred me to a supervisor. Supervisor was a f****** robot, reading canned responses. Utterly worthless. Was told its not a "recall" but a service bulletin. Know why? A recall affecting the N14 engine would affect BMW stock same as when Toyota came out that their cars had bad floor mats and the car would accelerate without warning. I asked the supervisor to explain why some N14 engines were affected and not other even though IT IS THE SAME ENGINE. No response. I mentioned how I have owned two Mini Cooper S models, and both have had more than 2 timing chain repair issues. Again, he was not able to help as my line of questioning was not on his flow chart. Oh and BTW this was the third time the car had been in for timing chain issues.

Got the number for BMW and spoke to yet another supervisor who was nice but unable to help me. Was then told the "recall" that is not really a recall only covered the tensioner and not the chain. The dealership was not able to do anything because my car had no service history with them. No service history meant that I didnt spend the 100+ for oil changes as I did them on my own. Not sure how my fairly extensive history of repairs and service slipped under their radar. The first Mini ended up with my ex wife who apparently had a catastrophic engine failure because of a broken timing chain rendering the car into junk status.

After waiting a week with no car and an expensive rental, was told that Mini USA was unable to help me. The SA said they tried to go to bat for me but since there were no service records they could not help me at all. So I had two choices, cough up 2k for the repair, or spend the 140.00 diagnosis fee to have them put BROKEN timing chain guides back into my car, button it back up and send me on my merry way. I was incredulous that Mini would allow a customer to drive off in a car that was on the verge of failure. And mind you this was right before Xmas. They generously discounted the total repair down to 1950.00 which included a new friction drive which was also failing.

So after a week of no response I get a call from the dealer that the car was ready. I saw in the notes section that the drive belt required attention. Now they had the cart apart but due to the lack of communication from them, I was never notified about the belt issue. So the car has to go back to get the drive belt replaced at some point costing further money when it could have easily been done at the time. And the car was filthy. I called Mini USA to discuss the issue and was told that there was nothing that could be done because the car was "so far out of warranty". But I may get lucky and if BMW decides to add my car into the "recall" list I will get my money back.

So bottom line, Desert Mini and Mini USA can both kiss my a**. They produce a car with engineering faults and dont have the ***** to ensure that their customers will get relief when an issue occurs. And once that warranty expires, you are SOL. They make a big deal about their customer service rating yet produce faulty cars that dont last even as long as a comparable car for less money. Its pathetic. I have been a HUGE proponent of the Mini brand. I loved these cars. But seeing what crap they roll out of the factory and do nothing to back them up, even for good will repairs, speaks volumes about what kind of a company they are..

I am curious about the insurance policy addendums. I feel my transmission is the next to go. I am in the process of gathering parts to fix the oil filter housing that has been dumping oil all over my exhaust, something the dealer did not catch but also sees fit in charging an additional 1208 (now discounted to 950) to repair. After spending over 3k I have to spend yet another 1k just to keep my g*****n car from catching fire?

 

And dont be fooled. Mini USA isnt doing s***. Their initial "recall" has only affected 27000 cars accoring to the first robot I talked to. TWENTY SEVEN THOUSAND! How many N14 engines were stuck in the Cooper S from 2007 onward? Maybe a half a million plus? Was told there may be a second wave of recall notices but they are not doing any good will repairs in Nevada. And unfortunately we only have two dealerships in the entire state One in Reno some 8 hours drive away and the one in Vegas. I would be very interested in documenting this entire experience to a higher up at Mini USA and BMW. In fact I would write to all of them if I had a list of names of those that might make a difference..

 

I think 500k is a bit much. Looking at US sales (because the recall/campaign) varied from market to market) there was 59,667 cars sold at the end of November, extrapolate out an average of lets say 65,00 cars a year. (http://www.motoringfile.com/2013/12/...-for-november/) The N14 was used from 2007-2010 (A little less in the convertibles as they kept the SCed engine until 2008 and the JCW kept the N14 until 2012; IMO those negate each other for this purpose). 4 years of that motor in an optimistic 65k cars a year would be 260,000. I saw some figure of 23% S models sold worldwide (they have a less powerful MINI One and then the 2 diesel options) But let's be optimistic and think American love power so 50% sold here in the US are the S model. That puts us at 130k N14s sold.

There was a tensioner update (at least once) and this was a prescribed fix for the series int he middle of production. But I will stop here because as I read what I wrote I hope it didn't seem as if I was coming off to be some facts and figures troll. But I could see how MINI would say a smaller number than all cars sold with the N14 as in their minds they did fix the issue with a new tensioner (longer bolt). I am not saying they are perfect or faultless, but realistically, the poor feeling and service sounds to be very dealer specific. Some dealers love to make their customers happy and do what they can, others just rake in the dough.

 

I understand your point, but whether it is 500000 or 250000, they need to fix their cars. I realize that the longer tensioner bolt was supposed to solve the issue, but I have had my car in TWICE for new tensioner bolts when the old ones eventually failed. TWICE! My stretched chain and broken timing rails are after they put in their new tensioner. My ex wifes cooper also had the entire timing chain replaced and a new tensioner as well yet it failed two years later. So their attempted fixes dont fix s***. Its a design issue. I am hearing the new timing chain packet supposedly solves the issue once and for all but who really knows. Regardless if Mini says 27000 or 250000 the issue needs to be fixed and not leave their customers like myself high and dry with a 3k repair when the issue lies with their cars. I guarantee that if the tensioner had been replaced and the chain broke on the highway (as has been reported ) and my girlfriend or other member of my family had been seriously injured or killed that a team of lawyers would be crawling up Mini's a** with a microscope about the reliability of their "fixes". They replaced the auxiliary water pumps after one caught fire and burned some woman's house down. Is that what it takes for a car manufacturer to take notice? Apparently, as Toyota didnt do anything until video surfaced of their cars running out of control down the freeway. If I had never brought in my car for a repair I wold not even be b******g. It would be on me. But bringing it in now three times for the same issue to be told my car is not qualified for a good will repair and having to spend 3k on it? Seriously? If it wasnt so illegal, I would set the car on fire in front of the dealership the way the Buddhist monks did during the Vietnam war in protest so people will understand just how screwed they are when they purchase a Mini Cooper. Two cars, both new, both failing at the 60k mark and neither being supported by the manufacturer. They warrantied the high pressure fuel pump for 100k, why not the chain?

 

And I do not follow the computer when it comes to changing my oil. My car gets fresh oil and a new filter every 5k. And after talking to the guy at Kensington, I am gonna do it every 3k because I realized that the turbo puts out so much heat that it breaks down the oil even faster.

 

Did you keep records or receipts from when you did your oil changes? Even if MINI has no records of you doing oil changes with them, you can still produce your documentation and receipts to supplant what the dealer may or may not have. Might help your case with MINI USA some.

 

Except I have multiple UOAs showing that the OEM Mini oil has no trouble with 7,500 mile intervals even when driven hard (not track use). You're more than welcome to change your oil as often as you please but it's not going to help anything.

 

A lot of emotion here, but also a lot of incorrect facts.....


Start with this one....


when Toyota came out that their cars had bad floor mats and the car would accelerate without warning.


I'm surprised he didn't drag out the Audi unintended acceleration situation from the mid-80's....which was disproved in time.


The turbo does not run so hot it breaks down your oil in 3,000 miles - this is a water cooled turbo (the water pump recall is for the electric water pump that cools the turbo after shutdown) and if you use the recommended synthetic oil you do not need to spend the time or money changing it that often. MINI says once a year or every 10K......that's sufficient.


I just don't want uninformed people reading this thread and thinking that their own car is about to fail and needs 3K oil changes to save it.


I find that most of the catastrophic engine problems are caused by two things, owners who don't check their oil periodically and let it run low, and owners who don't understand or hear the noises that mean the engine is having an issue, and do nothing about it till it stops on the road.


Neither is a "design fault" of the car.


My car is a 2009 Clubman S and has had none of the problems you've experienced, and just as that does not mean that every other Cooper S will be problem free as mine (clearly not the case) it also does not mean that EVERY turbo Cooper S is a problem car about to cost someone tens of thousands of dollars.


Again, I don't want uninformed people getting the wrong impression. Yes some of the cars have had problems................MOST haven't.


Same as any other manufacturer.


I can't speak to the dealer issue as my dealer - Baron MINI in Kansas City - has been exemplary, and this is the second MINI I've bought from them. My 2003 JCW wasn't a problem child either. But as others say, good documentation and a proper approach to the dealer will work wonders. A local club member's 2008 Cooper S with 60K+ on it had the timing chain noise show up, Baron got it covered with MINI USA.


Instead of getting confrontational and complaining loudly to anyone who will listen, try asking quietly what it would take for MINI to cover your car? What do they need to say yes? More documentation? (then get it for them) If they say they can't help, ask to speak to the service manager - make an appointment if he's busy then. Sit down quietly and go over you situation and ASK (not demand) for his help. Ask him what you can do to help him get your car covered by MINI


After all, your car is out of warranty - they owe you nothing, whether you think they do or not. If you want them to do something outside their warranty policy, make sure you give them every excuse (by being a good customer) and every possible positive reason to do so. Chances are good they will.


Screaming, calling the TV stations, setting your car on fire on the front lawn......probably not the best way.

 

While I agree with most everything you mention, I disagree with your claim that 10K miles is sufficient. I think anything over 7500 is a detriment to the motor, even if you're being responsible and topping up every week. Now I can't produce oil breakdown reports or the like, but when I'm told by a couple dealers that I trust and several MINI aftermarket companies that have been in the tuning and maintaining MINIs business since the beginning that 10K is too long and the oil isn't doing it's best to lubricate the internals of the motor, I tend to stick to that timeframe. There is a reason after all that MINI changed it's timeframe from 15K to 10K.