The oil discussion has been had on every car board on the internet and everyone has their opinion, so absent rock solid proof otherwise, I go with the mfr's requirement. You are free to do as you wish, and more frequent changes certainly don't hurt anything, but they do waste oil, time and money if not needed.


I used to change mine more often too, but now I do the once a year/10K program. My oil looks pretty clean when I change it but I'm not driving 10k a year anymore either.


My point is mostly to take the emotion and panic out of the situation and point out that you don't have to change every 3K to "save" the engine.


The reason they went from computer based intervals to what they do now was probably based on the oil usage history they've gotten since the turbo motors came out. Even so, they still required yearly changes from the beginning....


I'd also like to point out that buying a used car from a non-MINI dealer does not guarantee that the car was serviced or treated properly by the first owner......if you're interested in buying a used MINI or any other car, have it checked out BEFORE you buy it by someone knowledgeable that you trust, then you stand a better chance of getting a good used car and avoiding problems later.

 

Based on Mini Daves comments, here are my replies:
I did, quietly, discuss this issue with the dealer and the SA. I also did, quietly and politely, discuss this with Mini USA. Since you dont know me, I will tell you I am a person who speaks softly and carries a big stick (to quote Teddy Roosevelt). So lets trade places for a moment if we can...Your 2009 Cooper Clubman S goes in four years ago because of a rattling in the engine on startup. Diagnosed by the the only dealer in the southern half of the state with a bad timing chain tensioner. Tensioner replaced. Two years later, timing chain rattle comes back. Again back to the dealer, again gets a new tensioner. fast forward a year later and guess what? Same issue. Now instead of a rattle has more of a whine. Take it to an independent Mini specialist shop (Kensington Motors), and was told the timing chain is bad along with a host of other issues including cracked valve cover, bad vacuum pump and bad vanos sensor (pump and sensor moot issue because everything goes bad eventually). Then you read that Mini USA is fixing their cars finally. You make an appointment with the same dealership you have had TWO Mini Coopers serviced and repaired at. A week goes by and you are told, sorry, you are on your own. I even offered to buy parts. Nope, case closed. Oh and BTW your timing guides are broken so the car either needs to be fixed here or needs to be towed somewhere else. So you cough up the cash to have it repaired. And its a week before Xmas. 2000.00. So nearly four weeks later, and 2k poorer, you get your car back, dirty, and leaking oil onto the exhaust manifold and smoking like its on fire. Oh, the oil filter housing is leaking, thats another 1200 to fix. I can assure you that even with the patience of Mother Theresa, even she would wanna kick someone in the *****. I am sure your dealership is at the right hand of God, but the one in Las Vegas sucks pure and simple which appears to be the point of the original post in this thread. And it was the owner at Kensington who advised changing the oil more frequently. I have no clue how you can say the oil does not get overly hot with the turbo. There are oil lines running right by the exhaust whose sole job is to carry oil to the turbo assembly. I know because the one on my car broke two years ago. I am going to replace those very lines this weekend when my parts come in for the oil filter housing.

I have been working on my own cars for nearly 20 years. Used to work for Toyota back in the 90s. Yeah I have seen abuse, owners that never change their oil. I can assure I am not one of those people. I realize no car is infallible. Its a machine and machines break. Lets just say that they made 250000 Mini Coopers. And lets say that 175000 of them are the Cooper S with the N14 engine. So out of 175000 cars with that engine their "first wave" of recalls (as the Mini USA supervisor told me) was around 27000 cars. Twenty Seven Thousand! So there are no incorrect facts being stated. This is directly from Mini USA and the dealership in Vegas, and the independent repair shop who only deals with Minis also in Vegas. Apparently you have been extremely lucky and maybe luckier than most with your Coopers. But there are many many others on this board (and it looks like you have been active enough on this board long enough to judge for yourself) that have not been so lucky. And many of them have gotten the run around same as myself. And there are thousands of Cooper owners not active on these forums that are also having issues.

You say the dealership doesnt owe me anything because my car is out of warranty? Really? They have been dealing with this issue for the last 50000 miles on this Clubman. My ex wifes car had the motor seize at 65000 miles because of a broken timing chain. That has nothing to do with service. Its a design flaw whether you or Mini USA wants to admit it or not. They will warranty the high pressure fuel pump for 100k. Not fiction, fact. Why? Design flaw. They replaced under recall the auxiliary water pump. Why? Design flaw. The member who had their timing chain go bad at the 60k plus mark was out of warranty. So based on your opinion the dealership nor Mini USA should have told him to kick rocks. And yes there is alot of emotion. I spent a over 2k fixing something that had been fixed two other times in the past. Money I didnt really have but needed to have based on my current situation. But I need my car for business. No way around it.

I am not sure what point you were trying to make about me bringing up the Toyota floor mat issue. That was a fact. People were seriously injured. People died. That could have been anyone. Including someone close to you. If a car is unsafe it is unsafe regardless whether or not you have had an issue with it. You can read more here if you like:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/toyota-f...ill-uncertain/

Mini USA recalled the aux water pump circuit board because it caught fire. Again, thats a fact.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...ire-issue.html

I am not making things up to prove my point. Mini installed parts into their cars that were not well designed and have led to numerous safety issues. I know every car manufacturer has had problems. But I am not talking about them, I am discussing Mini Coopers. And no matter how many facts you throw at them or how polite you are or how nicely you beg, if the dealership is unwilling to do anything for you, neither will Mini USA. Pure and simple. I and many others are living proof of that...

 

I also have had no problems with my MINI. You see more problems with any brand of car on car forums, because that where the people with problems go for advice. You just don't see many people come to car forums to say how trouble free their cars are.

With any brand there are going to be individual problem cars, but that doesn't mean all of that brand's cars have a "design flaw".

Dave

 

 

True while many of the posts are directed at this part or that part not working, I find the purpose of these boards is to share information in a constructive manner. I have been helped several times by other board members who have similar issues with other parts. Is a door latch that fails on the Clubman a design flaw? Certainly not. Same as a sunroof that doesnt open in the heat of the day or some other mundane issue. But Mini USA is not issuing their recall over faulty door latches or sticky sunroofs. This problem has been documented for a few years now. And they changed the design of the tensioner to rectify the issue. The tensioners got longer. I know because I have been through three of them. There is also a company that makes replacement tensioners that do not require oil pressure to operate. Do they work? I have no idea as I have not tried them out. My understanding is that they have redesigned the timing chain guides to solve this issue once and for all. Johnny Bravo stated his car had timing chain issues at 29000 miles. Timing chain issues at 29000 miles. I have worked on everything from a 302 in a Mustang Mach 1 to a Kia Sorento. From timing chains to timing belts. Why are these chains and tensioners failing so quickly? And why are the parts being redesigned to correct faults? This is not a design issue? How is that possible?

I understand you and many others have not had issues with their Minis. Trust me, you are the lucky ones. And I wish I was in your shoes. But myself and many many many others are not in your shoes. They are dealing with Mini Coopers with failing timing chains and tensioners. They are also being turned away at the dealerships and by Mini USA who has acknowledged an issue yet reacts slowly to customer complaints. How do you or anyone else explain this? Is it an anomaly? 27000+ cars being recalled in the first wave? Is that a fluke? If it is please explain it to me as I seem to be missing the point. Everything comes down to design both good and bad. Whether you want to acknowledge that or not is up to you. The original turbo lines have a rubber gasket. Rubber. It heats up and eventually fails. Way Motorworks has a new D E S I G N that eliminates the o ring and allows for greater reliability. Is the original Mini design for that part faulty? That is up to the individual who has to shell out money to fix one to determine.

Its the same with the "sealed for life" transmission. Since they are not being serviced they fail. That particular transmission needs service at 40k miles. Is that poor design? Yes I believe it is even though my particular car has not had a transmission failure. Do I expect my car to run for 75k miles without any issue? Yes and no. I believe in value and life of service out of a car. This is not 1980s GM garbage like the Buick Regal and the AMC Pacer. My mothers Kia Optima has 50000 trouble free miles on it. fifty thousand. Yes it needed brakes and a battery and wipers and other stuff, but never was on the verge of a major engine failure like broken timing chain guides. In some states if you have more than a few (dont remember the exact number) repairs for the same issue, it qualifies under the lemon law. And I am sure every car on the road today has had its share of lemons. But those are also a small percentage of total builds for that particular model. We are talking every N14 engine from 2007 on may be susceptible to timing chain issues. Including yours. Why have mine failed and yours didnt? No clue. I use Mobil 1 or Castrol synthetic oils, changed at every recommended interval, top quality filters and they still failed. I increased the frequency of oil changes, and they still failed.

When I buy a car, I buy for looks, design and longevity. And I want the best for my money. I am probably not alone in this logic. When you think of the word Range Rover do you imagine these trouble free trucks gliding along the highway like chariots of fire? No, talk to the majority of Range Rover owners and they will state their vehicles are problematic. Is what it is. Maybe its a British thing even though the Germans and the French and the Japanese are building them now. But bottom line, most issues are traced back to design. It is why cars change over the course of the years. Looks, engine components, etc. New design trumps old design pure and simple. I realize I am on a soap box about this, but being that this issue hits very close to home for me I cannot help it. I am sure it is a source of amusement to many people as my rants sometimes amuse even myself. My issues are not with you or you or you, it is with the Las Vegas dealership and Mini USA. I dont think its too much to ask these days of robotic styling to have a car last at least 75k miles, is it?

 

An '09 Clubman S bought in Oct with 29,000 is a good deal...yes?
But correct me if I'm wrong, it's out of factory warranty at that time unless it has the extended one, or you purchase a extended one at time of used car purchase.
With that being all said and assuming correct, expecting to get ANY repairs done for free or even at 50/50 is just like the tables in Vegas...yes?
After following many threads here and holding tight, it just suddenly burst out tonight. Looking for Mod addons, tuning, cats, no cats, sways, and then tracking a car ( which I believe voids any warranty ) again I could be wrong. But then to again expect to get stuff fixed seems far out there.

And then there are those who buy a USED car and have no idea what problems IF any there might be. When laying out several thousand dollars for a DD, I'd think a little bit of due dilagence would come into play?!?!
It's very easy to bash the dealerships, the corporate minions, SA's and even the tech......but they didn't threaten your family if you didn't buy a MINI did they?

I believe many people have issues wit MINI's and yet huge amounts of others who never have anything outside normal expected wear and tear on their car.

Lastly, if your either so darn passionate about what you perceive as design flaws and a full obligation by the makers of your car.....get a lawyer and sue them.
For once stop telling every layman and laylady across North America what is wrong in your life and step up if you are so darn fire sure your correct, and take them to task in the courts.
Cause in the court of public opinion, you look whiney at best.

Whew, glad that's done.
Thank you for your time.
And the opinions expressed here are NOT necessarily those of the North American Mortoring Group, but those of one individual within the community.

 

Most 09 cars bought in October with 29k seem to be a good deal. And the factory warranty warranties the car to 60k regardless of who owns it. A friend owns an 08 Cooper purchased used from Ford with 17k on the odometer. Also coincidentally had timing chain issues and had it fixed for free as it was under the 60k mile limit. Both of my Coopers were bone stock. No fancy anything added after the fact.

Both of my cars were purchased new. One in Los Angeles, the other here in Vegas. Wear and tear is one thing. Replacing the same parts again and again is another. I know of very few attorneys that will take a case such as this since it is under 5k. Do you think I can take Mini USA to small claims court? If I can please let me know as I am not nor have I ever professed to be a legal expert. And for the record I never told anyone whats wrong in my life. I just happen to be one of many owners of a car that is falling apart. I am adding to a forum thread started by a person who was also dissatisfied with the quality of his car and the expensive costs associated in fixing it.

The bottom line of my "whiny" diatribe is that an issue has been identified with my car and thousands of others. Mini USA has documented this issue but has been slow to fix the problem. I am not the first person bringing this up and I wont be the last. Why they turned down my repair and forced me to pay for it I will never know. I would venture to say that the original author of this thread is as dissatisfied with the situation about his car as I am, and from reading other threads, several people are as well. Being that you and many others are not experiencing the same level of frustration with their cars and the manufacturer means that you have no clue of what myself of Johnny or anyone else has had to deal with.

Many people choose to be silent about it, I choose to vent my frustration publicly, regardless if it paints me in a negative light. I am merely adding to the mix of people who choose the Mini Cooper as their daily driver. If you dont like what I have to say, dont read my replies and dont waste your time nor energy writing back. Free country either way...
Have a wonderful evening

 

Regardless of whether the car is out of warranty or not, this campaign should still apply to his car. If you don't think so, search the forums for a copy of the letter being sent out to owners and read it for yourself.

If I were in his shoes, I would insist on getting in writing from the dealer and MINI USA why the car is not covered under the campaign. I would then call the Reno MINI dealer and talk to their service department. The campaign is tied to the VIN of the car. If it shows that previous timing chain work was done under warranty, as is the case with my dad's 09 Clubman S, then it wont show, but the dealer can still argue the case to get it covered by MINI USA. If it does show up by VIN, then it immediately is requested to be brought in to have the tensioner looked at, and if necessary replaced along with the entire timing cassette.

 

Sorry again for wasting my time.
Checked MINI USA web site and they state 4 years or 50,000 miles.
Went to the garage and checked my paper work, and it too states same.
As for the life issues and the such, was talking about the OP.
Didn't know your car and his were both '09's.
Also as stated, just another opinion here on the forums.
Your upset and rightly so I guess.
I'm not upset yet and again rightly so.

I would like to say a huge thank you to reminding me about it being a free country. Wasn't attempting to be mean AT you, but in guess you took my post as personal as you car troubles.
So I'll say I'm sorry and will add smileys next time when posting.

 

"Regardless of whether the car is out of warranty or not, this campaign should still apply to his car. If you don't think so, search the forums for a copy of the letter being sent out to owners and read it for yourself.

If I were in his shoes, I would insist on getting in writing from the dealer and MINI USA why the car is not covered under the campaign. I would then call the Reno MINI dealer and talk to their service department. The campaign is tied to the VIN of the car. If it shows that previous timing chain work was done under warranty, as is the case with my dad's 09 Clubman S, then it wont show, but the dealer can still argue the case to get it covered by MINI USA. If it does show up by VIN, then it immediately is requested to be brought in to have the tensioner looked at, and if necessary replaced along with the entire timing cassette."


The issue I am faced with is the dealer has already been paid to fix the car. Mini USA is also seeing it as a closed case and feels that no further action is due. My next realistic step is to write letters to the heads of both BMW USA and Mini USA to inquire since this particular car has a history of timing chain issues (meaning my car, not anyone elses). Since it has been documented, why was a good will repair not been performed even after I offered to buy the parts from the dealer. My car was in parts in the service bay at Desert Mini when I was told the timing chain guides were broken and that Mini USA was not going to help in any way. I had no choice unfortunately but to get the car fixed through them as my back was against the wall. My thought is if a Cooper with an N14 engine that has never experienced timing chain issues (as has been expressed in this thread by others), then after inspection the recall would not apply. But in my case, and in the case of many others with a history of timing chain issues on their car, then a timing chain inspection should be performed, and if damage or broken components are noted, then a warranty repair should be applied. My car has never had a new timing chain. Only tensioners. And every one of them has eventually failed. This is why I was incredulous that Desert Mini would not offer to try and convince regional or Mini USA that at least a partial covering of costs was appropriate.

The repair that was performed in December of 2013 was a full timing chain packet and new tensioner. That in theory should solve the issue once and for all (I hope). I was told by the owner of Kensington Motors that the issues they diagnosed (bad vanos, cracked valve cover, bad timing chain, leaking vacuum pump) were normal for Mini Coopers and that once I had the repairs done should not have to deal with these problems again. I was even OK with this to a certain degree as I know that no car is without some issue. It was after the fact that I found out on this board that Mini USA was starting to fix the timing chain and tensioner issue on the N14. Sadly, mine did not apply for whatever reason so I had to cough up the cash to get the car back on the road.

Again, for those joining us late, my issue is with the service at Desert Mini, and the lack of service from Mini USA.

 

And BubbaJCW, no need to apologize. I have amazingly thick skin. All good.

And many people who buy used Minis from other dealerships besides Mini Cooper are probably not aware that the factory warranty is transferable. Up to 50k miles. I thought it was 60, but also didnt take the time to check my facts..

 

FWIW, I bought my 08 MCS with 47k miles in November. It was really an impulse buy on account of some *&$% totaling my car. Once the insurance check came in I needed to get a car ASAP since my rental was going to expire. I found out about the timing chain issue on this forum. I didnt receive a letter or anything. I just called my local Mini dealer regarding the timing chain and they took care of me, no charge.

That's why I was extremely selective about who I bought it from. No dealerships since they are in the business of making money, which means they wont fix anything they don't NEED to fix. No kids/teens that probably mashed the S#&$ out of it. I finally found a seller who was a physician with kids that was selling because he needed something bigger since his kids grew up. Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

 

Sounds like you did well, plus got the timing chain issue fixed before it became an issue. I had to downgrade from my truck to a Mini, but it was my second Mini ever owned, and since I missed the car more than my ex, I decided to buy another one. Up until December had no regrets as I loved the car. Just soured on the fact the manufacturer doesnt seem to stand behind them as well. But I have gone on and on about that already...

 

yeah, I'm sure its temporary though. I think only the tensioner may have been replaced since it wasn't too bad, I'll have to look at the paperwork again. I do still hear rattling but it's not horrible. I'm sure Peugeot 207 owners are dealing with this too.

 

Mini Cooper should warranty these timeing chains for 100k miles, period.
When I bought my wifes Mini I made the dealership add the CPO coverage to it along with the normal factory warranty. Whe the warranty is gone so will the car be gone.
Without a Min Cooper warranty you are entirely at the mercy of the dealerships and Mini USA and that appears to be somewhat iffy at best.
My advice to anyone owning or thinking of buying a Mini Cooper is to get rid of the car before your warranty runs out, period.

 

I concur... My aftermarket extended 100K warranty already paid for itself and I am only at 66K and still have 4 years left. Some sort of warranty is very important when buying one of this vs. buying another car. This way it doesn't matter whether it is a recall or not. They take care of everything.

 

Yeah more than likely they only did the tensioner as that is what the original recall is for. If the chain is damaged in some way they may replace it at their discretion. BMW and Mini USA are only gonna spend as little money as necessary to fix these problems. When I had the Aux water pump done, they didnt replace the coolant. They drained it into a can and saved it and dumped it back in when they were done. Honestly any rattling on initial startup is very bad. Mine went from a rattle/knock to a whirring whine. Guide rails were broken. Amazing the car didnt shred the chain because that is what I am hearing is happening. The chain has slack and slaps against the rails. Eventually the chain breaks and seizes the motor because it is an interference engine. We used to get Z cars in the shop all the time with bent intake and exhaust valves when the timing belt would break, And on the Z, the timing belt would break no matter if you were just starting up or driving down the highway. That issue was customer related. They had intervals specifically set in the manual and people would ignore them. There was no issue with design, then belt would just wear out and teeth would shear off. The faster the engine was turning the more damage that was done. Made a horrible sound too...yeesh

 

I wish I would have purchased the extended warranty. I spent a total of 3k in parts and labor for a new vanos sensor, valve cover, friction drive, vacuum pump and timing chain repair. And that was just in December! I have to do the oil filter housing gasket this weekend, and going to replace the turbo lines as well since all of that has to come off to fix the leaking housing. That is only 200 in parts as I am doin it myself. Otherwise it will be 1200.00. I think an extended warranty is something like 3400. Lesson learned on my part...

 

Actually, I got a Route66 warranty with 0 deductible for about $1800. My dealership has never had a problem dealing with them and usually gets the payment the same day. The warranty covers everything except body panels and fluids.

I just got my oil filter housing gaskets replaced as well a few weeks ago, but it ended up being $550 or so with parts. They only replaced the gaskets though. Did that $1200 include housing itself?

Believe it or not our dealership has very competitive prices. The local mini shops charge too much here in my opinion.

Hey, good luck though and am very sorry for your troubles!

 

I am gonna look into it. Whether I like it or not I am stuck with this car for a few more years. No, the 1200 was just to replace the gaskets and it didnt include all of the gaskets, just the housing to the block. For an extra 20.00 I purchased the housing to heat exchanger gasket which is an extra 10 minutes and a few screws. I am noticing Desert Mini is content doing the bare minimum of work, even though they are charging for it. I was told the bumper had to come off, but on the forum here there are work arounds for it as long as the exhaust downpipe comes off. I am going to replace the turbo lines as well with the upgraded ones while I am in there. Kensington Motors is pretty reasonably priced and they are the only Mini repair shop out here. Johnny Bravo found a great BMW shop as well that he has been happy with and also seems to be very competitively priced.

 

Sorry to hear about the car issues. My first MINI was an '08 Clubman with a year left of factory warranty left. When it was time I bought the extended and it saved me a lot. Nothing as terrible as your situation but a whole new sunroof, rotors, ECU/Computer system, etc... With the extended warranty I had zero issues with the dealer or service center.

With that said, I have had nothing but good things to say about MINI of LV (aka Desert MINI) and their service department. I have had issues that could easily have been blamed on aftermarket parts or careless driving and have never been denied or turned away.

It sucks that happened to you, hopefully something good comes of it.

-Z

 

For those interested in an insurance addendum for breakdown might check to see if you have an option similar to this with your carrier.

I realize you have to start early but at less than $100 a year it might save you in the long run.

https://www.geico.com/getaquote/auto...?cf=MBIReviews