Headlight change-actually that was a decent tradeoff. They were apparently having a high failure rate of Xenon bulbs due to being attached to the hood when it slams. Those aren't cheap. I think it's a decent tradeoff for reliability.

 

Well, if engine efficiency is not a concern, then I can see your point. But your statement about torque not being critical is just wrong. A daily driver benefits from torque. If you only want to race, then it may not be as critical to you.

It is win-win in terms of efficiency and cost. But if your preference is to hang on to an archaic design, then I could see this being a loss for you.

 

I love the "Lump".

 

Aluminum rear suspension also is a good way to save monies.

I'm also somewhat perplexed as to how switching from a cast iron engine designed by and sourced from Chrysler to an aluminum engine of an all-new design is a cost-savings measure, turbo or SC.

 

now THAT I can believe. Give a xenon a hard enough slam and it will explode...actually quite fun to do with old movie theatre bulbs.

 

I have driven several turbocharged cars (from Volvos to Acuras) and I've liked the way that they drive. I bought an 05' MCSc last October, being my first supercharged car. I have not driven the R56 yet, however I have experience with TC cars (talking about how the powerband is, etc). I personally think that the S/C is less refined and lacks the sophisticated technology that turbos have, but quite frankly, I like it. It's just raw. Nothing beats the S/C whine.

Everyone has their own opinion. The R56 isn't necessarily "better" than the R53 (although efficiency and mpg, yeah). I guess in that respect it is, technically. The next MINI I buy will probably be an R56, so I'm not going to spit venom or anything....Aren't we all on the same team?

 

Chris - the fact is if you look at Slag's past posts you find he spends an awful lot of time posting in the 2007 forum all about what he thinks is wrong with the R56. Then we have another local Mini Club that likes to inflame R56 discussions here on NAM and then blatantly post about their cleverness on their club message board. Everybody is entitled to their opinions by all means, but going out of your way to incite bad feelings, or annoy other NAM members is just bad behavior and it damages the community.

The great majority of R53 owners are not like this. There are just a few that can't restrain themselves. I say we can do without them and encourage the mods to show them the door.

 

Yep... seems like any discussion ends up with "its our forum, why are you here?" vs. actually discussing opinions, which is after all, the whole purpose of this board. Then the discussion eventually leads to calling a MOD to end the thread...

 

And it seems that any question of why an R53 owner spends so much time criticizing the R56 ends with a claim to free run of the boards and accusations of staking claims.

Forget all the bull. The mods can look at where you have been spending your time as easily as any member. I'm a party to this argument. Look at my posting history. How much time have I been spending in the 04-06 forum pointing out the shortcomings of the R53? Then lets scan Slags history...

Slag's past 27 posts have been in topics about criticism of the R56. In fact the last post he made on another topic was back on April 25th, almost a month ago, on some topic about wheels. You are acting like a troll.

Chris, you certainly don't behave like this, but do you really want to jump to this guy's defense?

 

So...back to the thread?

 

It seems these kind of people are in every forum. On a digital camera site there are a few Canon DSLR users who spend a lot of time in the Nikon forum trying to find ways to put down Nikons. (There are probably Nikon users who do the same on the Canon forum, but I don't read the Canon forum so can't say.) It's all quite pointless because they never have anything useful to say. Intelligent comparisons between Nikon and Canon DSLRs can be quite useful to someone trying to decide which brand to go with for their first DSLR. However, the posts are rarely informative.

Whether it is insecurity, an emotional reaction to change, or just a perverse need to get attention, they mainly come to **** on what the people in the forum value. It is sad.

 

Can't we all just get allong??

Ok maybe not well we could yell, scream, and cry our selves all the way to our cars then just sit there and know why you bought them.

 

For some reason I have to quote myself

I think MINI made the switch from a S/C to a turbo because of fuel economy and efficiency, plus the fact that there is more potential power to be tapped in a turbo. Production costs down? Possibly.

 

BMW has been doing amazing things with turbochargers on their own cars. I think that this is where their know-how resides. They are probably much better with turbo's than superchargers. It makes sense that they would leverage that know-how on the mini engine as well.

There have been turbocharger kits for the R53 before. If there really is such a strong sentiment for a supercharger, whine etc, then I'd bet there would be a great after-market for an R56 supercharger kit.

 

I don't disagree with you that BMW is going bonkers with turbos these days , but I was always under the impression that they were always N/A gung-ho. Before they came out with the 335 I though of BMW as synonymous with N/A cars.

 

I think you are right - but they have gotten dragged into it because of the HP wars.

 

To me BMW + turbo sounds funny to me. However I think the turbo is a good fit for the MINI. I really need to go the dealer and test drive the R56. When I was younger I used to go to the MINI dealer and my dad and I would test drive MINIs on my birthday....the good ol' days.

 

JohnnyF,

If you look at the costs associated with using an aluminum engine, you are correct, it actually is not really going to save very much money. In reality, going with the aluminum suspension isn't either.

Both of these pieces require quite a bit of engineering since neither has the strength of its iron/steel equivalent.

I think the main reason for Mini to go this route is to save as much weight as possible due to other design changes.

All in all, it is just BMW with their pursuit of better general engineering.

 

Sorry, I forgot the . I'll go back and fix that.
The aluminum engine is going to be more expensive than the original due to R&D costs, tooling, and even raw materials. I was more trying to point out the fallacies in nit-picking about debatable cost-cutting measures without looking at the bigger picture.

 

I think when we finish sorting all this out it'll come down to the fact that each engine offers certain benefits/endearing qualities that enthusiasts can justifiably admire. I also think the cost savings argument is now moot because R56s engine has now been shown to be quite good so who cares about the cost. So we have two engines that MINI enthusiasts like....cool!!

We need a new way of imagining the relationship between the two cars...much as had been done between R50 Coopers and R53 MCSs. We sure fought over that one, but in the end you just had to credit each car for the qualities that made it unique. Same here.

I think those of us (including me) who have been following all this for months can safely put our daggers away and get a little more creative in how we view this stage in MINI development.

 

The sad part is that we aren't the first group of enthusiasts to go through this. Being older than dirt, I remember when Porsche dropped the 356 for the 911. OMG you'd have thought the earth stopped turning. And when they released the 914 - akkk - heresy I say . . .

Having owned an 02 S, an 04 JCW, and an 06 JustaCooper before buying my R56 MCS, I am somewhat familiar with all. I liked them all. I'm really pleased with the way the new car drives. The week of the Dragon, I put 1955 miles on it and now have a total of 4500. I like this one the best of the bunch. It's an opinion. At the end of the day, if one doesn't like the R56, one shouldn't buy one. R50s and R53s will be running happily for years to come. Motor in what makes you happy.

 

jcw should make theirs twin turbo :p

 

the scoop actually has 4 square holes... check them out

 

This is my sentiment exactly too. As well as, "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with!" We all are here because we LOVE MINI's.......OUR MINI's. Regardless of whether yours is old school or new school, you love YOUR car. I think what makes the MINI one of the more unique vehicles on the market today is the YOU-ification that we can do to them. So don't go hating on the R56. If you don't care for the changes, then stay away from the newer models......that simple. But please, don't go slamming them here where those of us that enjoy them live. That is just ugly.

 

I think this is exactly where all this is headed ultimately. What we are all dealing with is the aftershock of the introduction of R56, so a certain amount of chaos is to be expected, especially on a forum such as this. I suppose these things take time....