Today I was hoping to settle down on my selection of options by testing driving an automatic Cooper S. The car I drove has the 17 in tires but no sport suspension. I was surprised at how stiff the ride was (although it was no where near my modified Sti), the gas pedel felt stiff and the steering feel seems heavy and yet not very communicative. The reason I wanted a Cooper S is becauase I want a more comfortable daily driver. My Sti is too punishing with all the modifications (stiff bushings, JDM springs, stage 2 ECU with turboback etc). My wife drives a Lexus IS250 and I really like the ride quality of it which is smooth, quiet and yet still sporty. I was hoping a Mini S with 17in tires and sport supsension would match the ride quality of the IS and yet give me its well known light weight performance. Now I really don't know what to get......I test drove another S with the 16 in tires and the ride quality was much better. Yet on the other hand I can't accept the fact I'll be buying a S with the wimpy 16 in tires and no sport suspension. Is the sport suspension really gonna make the ride even stiffer/firmer/more uncomfortable? I'm sure there's got to be an ideal point where a car's supsension is both comfortable to live with and yet still sporty (like all the BMWs) Please help me decide!

 

Slowsti, the sport susp will be much stiffer. Apparently, a lot of people recommend the 16" wheels for better handling and ride and manoeverability. I drove 16", have 17" and tried 18" the other day. I think the 16" w/o sport susp is the smoothest you'll get....unless you go with a 16", non-sport MC...it's even a little softer, but you lose a lot of acceleration compared to the S...

 

Don't let your ego get in your way. A standard MCS with 16" wheels is still a very crisp-handling car and has a much better ride than with the 17" wheels. Put non-run-flats on the car and you'll do better yet. And save a load of dough in the process. Some even say that on anything but smooth road surfaces, the 16" car will actually handle better as it won't be so skitterish. This may be exactly the compromise you're looking for.

A stripper MCS with LSD, DSC, and compliant tires is a great car to drive and reasonably comfortable. But it will never match an IS250 which is a pillow by comparison. If you like this car, you may be barking up the wrong tree - I'd look into a GTI which probably has the best overall compromise between being a very comfortable and soft riding car, but still fun to drive.

- Mark

 

Hey I agree! The 17" wheels are still mostly looks. Combined with run-flats and the ride can be punishing, especially on uneven pavement. You add the sport suspension to that and yikes! This car also has an especially short wheelbase and that too contributes to the ride. If a MINI S is a must, think 16"s and no sport suspension.

Also, being WELL versed in the STi, the damping on those stock struts is VERY stiff as well. If you don't like that don't go there again here.

Mark's comments about the GTi I would second. That is a very nice car, excellent road manners and you will probably REALLY like the ride. BUT, and this is a big BUTT, it doesn't have the cache, demeanor and adoration that the MINI brings.

Good luck with the decision!

Let me know if I can help in any way too!

 

Huh, I didn't get those with my MINI. Do they come with the Premium package?

ca·chet (kā-shā') noun.

1. A mark or quality, as of distinction, individuality, or authenticity: "Federal courts have a certain cachet which state courts lack"

 

This week I drove a '07 MC with standard suspension on 15" wheels and Continental runflats as a loaner. I pushed it a bit hard through a handful of corners and managed to squeeze considerably more body roll, but it still stuck VERY well.

That's in contrast to my '07 MCS with MINI Sport Suspension and 17" aftermarket Flik Wasp wheels with Hankook Ventus Sport k104 tires. Now that I'm back in my car, I can appreciate the flatter handling. But I can honestly say that it doesn't feel like it's more stiff or lacks road car compliance. MINI's done a great job with the Sport Suspension. That said, the ride height is too high and I'm wanting to ratchet up the rear bar, so I'll soon be changing out all but the shocks (maybe even them if I can choose a good set of coilovers) to drop the car and improve turn in and off throttle oversteer for autocross.

My advice to you is to get the wheels you want, get the standard suspension, budget for conventional tires and then tweak the suspension later if you want to. You've been down the tuner road with your Scooby, and I'm confident you'll go there again eventually with a MINI.

 

+1, a big one, to karl. Standard susp, wheels better tires, rear sway, springs.............. Gotta step away from the upgrage madness. "I can stop any time".

 

IS250? Europe? Anyway, IS300 weighs 3270 lb while R56 weighs 2670 lb. Difference = 600 lb !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yikes!!!! That's like carrying two line backers around in a MINI!!!!!!!! A light car will have a bumpier ride AND better handling. Subaru sti? 3351 lb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The HEAVIEST OF ALL THREE CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You definitely need stiff springs and shocks to match MINI handling....

 

slowsti, see if you can find a demo with 17s and all season tires. The ride still isn't going to match that of a Lexux, who would expect it too, but it does provide a bit of a softer ride.

Handling is what the car is most noted for. Driving the mountain twisties and feeling like your car's on rails is what it's all about. But I don't know of any car under $40K that will do that AND provide a smooth Lexus like ride.

 

r56mini, there is no IS300 anymore. Replaced by the IS250 and IS350. The weight has escalated as well. Lexus dumped that for 2006.

I own a Lexus IS250 as well, and went with the 16", no sports suspension MC. It handles well and rides similar to the Lexus. Although the runflats make it a tad harsher and the shorter wheelbase makes the ride a bit more choppy. But handling is crisp and predictable. With the runflats it will skitter over irregular road surfaces though.

I will be adding an aftermarket rear sway bar and I think I may leave the suspension mods alone after that. And swapping the runflat tires for regular tires as well.

You have to remember the Lexus weighs about 1,000 pounds more than the Mini. 16" wheels are not wimpy at all on such a light car. I have taken a panic turn at a very high speed where I had to sling the rear end around to make the turn.

Handling was predictable, and stable. In the Lexus, I would have circled the block.

 

I thought only the New Beetle had a wheelvase.

 

Ya learn somthing new everyday. Man. I had more typos in that post than hairs on my knuckles. Frightening.

 

Really. I was gonna ask if it was pre-coffee...

 

I test drove S's both with and without the sport suspension. I am usually the sort that would rather get something than not. Yet, I found the sport suspension simply made the ride harder, not better. My S, with 17" tires and no sport suspension rides great.

 

Yeah, the new MINIs can be a bit confusing. I come from a long line of modified BMWs, and I have to say, the MCS with 16 inch wheels and the (non)sport suspension is a fantastic comprimise. The suspension is just right, not too stiff, not too squishy, and even with run flats, it is pretty amazing what you can get away with on the street. I like the way the car aborbs changes in the road surface without feeling floaty, yet doesn't bottom out with three friends riding in the car. (My old MINI did this on the highway) Get the MCS with the regular suspension and plan on buying new wheels and better tires for it. I saved the money from leather seats to do this... $1100 - $2000 buys alot of wheel and tire combos!

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

I think I'm going to go back and have another test drive again, perhaps a longer test drive. It's amazing how divided the opinions are between whether one should get the sport suspension and 17" wheels. I've seen posts here that people literally say just get the sport suspension and don't even ask or think otherwise.

 

What you pay for with the sport susp. is slightly thicker antisway bars (about 1-2mm each). The height is the same, they don't say anything about the spring stiffness, and the dampers are said to be maybe different, but I doubt that myself. I drove 'em both and couldn't tell any diff in the ride, but I didn't push it with the MA in the car. You'll never get the ride you do in the Lexus though. That's a way heavier, bigger WB car, like a 330i.

 

Be sure the Sport button is on when you test an MCS. It changes the personality of the car.

When my Mom was a little girl they had vases in the car, but never on the wheel. How do you keep the water from spilling and the flowers from falling out?

 

The reason for the varying opinions is the different driving styles. With Mini's I am finding it runs from one extreme to the other. I am a casual driver, but I demand a good handling car as that is always the first, best option I have in avoiding an accident.

My IS250 has the 18" wheels, and I wish I wold have just held off for the 17" wheels. Those 18" tires Lexus uses are simply too noisy for my tastes. There are times I cannot hear myself think for the din being produced by the tires. On smooth roads they are as quiet as anything else is, but we do not have smooth roads in the D/FW area. Most are intentionally dimpled and if you go the right speed in the Lezus it sounds like the car is going to fall apart.

As a matter of fact, most of the time the Mini is actually quieter than the Lexus due to the wheel/tire/road combination.

Dunt(tm) get me wrong. The Lexus is a fantastic car. A much better interior, more power, and excellent handling for a car its size, but when the tires wear out, we are going to replace those 18" wheels with 17" and hope like heck that solves the serious tire noise condition.

 

Here's an option - if the new R56 JCW suspension kit is anything like the R53 JCW suspension kit.... that may be the best of the 3 choices. Another option - do what z3bum said and swap the runflats for some regular tires. Save the money now. You can always mod

In my opinion, the R56 regular suspension is too soft (compared to the SS+ on my 05 R53). It leans more in the turns. But it is more comfortable on the moon crater paths they call roads here in Chicago.

 

Add a rear sway bar to the stock suspension of the R56 and my guess is it will tame those body rolls. a bit.

 

There are sway bars stock skuzz - a bigger one may be in order. But there are other parts and pieces to the suspension that will contribute to reducing sway. If you want to step up the handling, the Sports Suspension option is a start, the JCW suspension upgrade is probably even better, and there is always aftermarket stuff.

 

That's interesting. I'd heard certain *tires* referred to as "noisy", and that makes sense, with all the different compounds/ tread patterns out there. But this is the first time I've heard of a particular-sized *wheel* being inherently noisy.

If you like everything about the 18's except the noise, you might want to try a different tire first. I know it's a gamble, money-wise, but if you're willing to take the chance and you luck out, new 18" tires would be cheaper than new 17" wheels *and* tires.

 

16 inch wheels are not "wimpy." :impatient get a life dude

 

Greg's right. All R56s in the USA have front and rear sway bars. In the MINI world few folks start by upgrading the front swaybar, because that stiffens the already relatively overstiff front end, which contributes to more understeer. The reason you see folks upgrading their rear swaybar is to reduce understeer by compensatating for a relatively understiff (being careful not to use the word loose which has a whole different meaning when speaking of handling) rear end. Since the swaybar responds to body roll by applying the inside wheel's spring to the spring force of the outside wheel, it flattens and lowers the car as you make a turn. It makes your car think it's got stiffer rear springs when you are cornering. The result approximates a closer slip angle to the front tires and offers more neutral handling. So you see swaybars are a magical item, which in most other situations (except for a mighty pothole on one side of the car) go unnoticed and don't contribute overtly to a harshening your ride.

The MINI Sport Suspsension does upgrade the springs(I believe), the shocks and BOTH front and rear swaybars.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...78&hg=31&fg=10
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...58&hg=33&fg=45
Front bar goes from 22.5mm to 23.5mm and rear bar from 17mm to 18mm.

But even the Sport Suspension is biased towards understeer to protect you from Snap Oversteer due to throttle lift in mid corner. Just as braking in mid corner is frowned upon, you can approximate the same affect with engine braking by lifting in the middle of a corner. Again, not fun if you don't know it's coming, but useful if you're trying to compete with the car in an autocross for example. For a track with no slow corners, it's probably not particularly desirable.

Finally if STI is looking for a smooth ride I would not recommend spending the $$ on a JCW suspension. It consists of a .5mm thicker bar front and rear than the Sport Suspension, uprated shocks, and the .4" drop springs are an additional $500 over the pricey $850 JCW initial cost. Noone's driven one to know what it'll feel like on the R56 yet (right??) but historically, the more radical MINI supsension is not smoother + better handling. Unless you get into voodoo technology like active suspension (or maybe Koni FSD) better handling means a compromised ride.