This is an excellent thread. Kudos to the OP who did the work. I like reading the reviews. I read a lot of reviews, cellphones, stereo gear, headphones, cars, DAPs. If I've learned anything reading them and owning various products it's that you read between the lines. If the stuff they like is stuff you deem important then look at it further (and vise versa). If you don't care about the stuff they hate then look further. I read Mini reviews before I bought and I knew it was worth looking into, no matter where the ranked it. And I knew some of the other cars I wouldn't probabaly like, so I didn't look.

 

Nice thread... excellent source of links and research...

 

OK, a couple of things.

You asked just about the "cheap plastic" references and so that is the only thing I looked for. However, there were many references ... far more ... where the big criticism was the big speedo that has apparantly reached mammoth or clown proportions along with way too many little buttons and ***** (ergonomics). Even the "good reviews" talked about the poor stack design.

Is that damaging? To some maybe. Sales look about the same as last year so its not hurting anything. Some ppl like the quirks, others don't.

As to the rawness/refinement issue, I think its all silly. Time to move on. The old is gone ... get over it. I know there are ppl out there that refuse to buy a new Porsche after they moved from air cooled cars ... well thats too bad, stay with your 20 year old vehicle. To each their own.

IMO, dissecting all these reviews is a bit silly only in the sense that only you ... in a test drive ... should make up your own mind. Reviews are nice to get other opinions but when all is said and done ... they are just more opinions.

I know the sibling rivalry exists but I think its just silly ... BMW isn't going to go back and build them like they used to so the ppl who bash the R56 need to get over it or keep their old cars.

The really interesting observation I can make is that a lot of new MINI buyers are expressing the same enthusiam and new car "passion" for their cars as those who bought the first gen cars ... and that is a good thing for the MINI culture. Keep it up. Keep the passion ... dont like the nahsayers get you down because they will be left behind.

 

Actually let me dodge work some more and actually respond to the reviews you posted chow. They were interesting and thanks for listing them. That said I think you are pretty darn guilty of cherry-picking quotes and it's not clear that there is quite the mandate you seem to be indicating. Especially when constrasted with many reviews that don't mention any of this stuff.

Absolutely saying what you're saying. Complains about the lack of supercharger whine and comments on the plastics and ergonomics. Check one. That said, the ultimate judgement: Should issues like those mentioned above give anyone pause who’s considering an R56? My answer would be a resounding no.

His conclusion is that there are a number of nitpicky small changes that are worth critiquing and considering but the car is still great and improved over the past model.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3188

And who cares that not all the materials are above average?

You're really doing a disservice here by not following up with the next sentence: Most are, and when you encounter the odd flimsy piece, the clever design more than compensates. I.e. the reviewer likes the interior quality overall and praises the ergonomics.

Quote:

http://www.automotive.com/2007/43/mini/cooper/reviews/lineup/index.html

This guy gets props for finding some creative superlatives. That said, the review is actually pretty positive about the interior:

the Mini is surprisingly spacious inside
I can attest to the surprising comfort
the buyer can create a very trendy, fast-and-furious interior look
a more conservative buyer can evoke an upscale, almost Rolls-Royce appearance on the interior
cleverly configured

I think you're doing a disservice here because the one complaint of the whole review is offered in contrast to "the otherwise high-quality interior appointments" (in the reviewer's own words).

Quote:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/hatchbacks/0612_2007_mini_cooper_s/index3.html

Not talking about any cheap plastics. In fact it goes the other way give praise to the overall quality/style of the interior. Does complain about ergonomics and fair enough, there's are things that don't work how you'd immediately expect them to. That said, in the end he agrees that "I have no doubt that prospective customers won't care about ergonomics."

Quote:

http://research.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?revid=51098&makeid=303&modelid=6848&y ear=2007&revlogtype=20&section=reviews

Again you seem to be ignoring important parts of the review. The section you quote is immediately preceded by: "the materials are of higher quality [than the older model]". So yes, he isn't purely positive. However he is clear in stating that outside of one area the R56 is much improved.

Quote:

http://cars.uk.msn.com/News/car_news_article.aspx?cp-documentid=5112584

Definitely a very negative review. However it's not clear what we should make of it. He didn't like the original MINI and he doesn't like the new one either. Hrm, not that surprising. Most of his comments focus on the lack of interior room. Absolutely understandable. But it's a MINI. Pretty much everyone in the market for a MINI has accepted the lack of room in the back. And as has been noted by many other reviews: the new MINI has more space, not less, inside. He complains about changes to the exterior a bit. That's absolutely fine and he's welcome to his opinion. It's not much of a mandate however as every other review has started by saying that the new MINI looks almost identical to the older one unless you look very closely.

 

I hope that answered your follow-up. I really think that anyone reading those reviews from an uninvested viewpoint would see, aside from the one review which is written by someone who just reviles MINI's in general, that the overall tone is very positive about the interior.

Yes, certainly, there are things to complain about. I don't think that anyone is saying that there aren't some interior decisions that won't be irksome to a some people or that the MINI is perfect. However I think you are looking for some sort of "mandate" that isn't really there. Lots of reviewers have raved about the interior. The critiques have all been about very specific, small things and the bits that one reviewer criticizes are often praised by other reviews.

 

And again, I actually agree. I bought my car after reading testimonials from people across the web on places like here and only read a few reviews. That said, you and a lot of other people keep bringing up the reviews. They pop up in thread after thread. Clearly people, yourself included, are interested in talking about them.

I'm just saying: ok, let's talk about them. Here's a thread for that.

 

You mean that somebody would just endlessly yank our chain because they know we are going to blindly defend our cars..?

Well that's not very nice.

 

I got the impression someone asked for articles reviewing the R56... not just positive reviews of the R56. Overall, some liked it. Some didn't. Not one doesn't have at least somthing critical to say about the car or the journalist wouldn't be doing his or her job, right (even the "shootouts" where the R56 didn't finish #1 ). I just figured someone was looking for reading material.

... and if you want some more, check out these print mags (sorry, no links):

Automobile - MINI Happy Returns (December 2006, P58)

Car - MINI Grows Up (October 2006, P52)

Roundel - The MINI Matures (February 2007, P56)

Sports Car International - Great Expectations (March 2007, P63)

MC2 - First Drive, 2007 MINI Cooper S (Issue #4, P28)
- Introducing the 2007 MINI Cooper S (Issue #5, P34)
- Designing the 2007 MINI, The Inside Story (Issue #6, P32)
- Assembaling the All New MINI (Issue #7, P36)

OK, OK... you want one you can link to? Here:

Evo Magazine (Clio 197 vs. R56S): http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg..._clio_197.html

Evo Magazine (R56 Cooper): http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...ni_cooper.html

Evo Magazine (R56s): http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/20..._new_mini.html

 

One thing I can say is it really is a no-win situation. Either the R56 owners keep their chin up and endure endless dis-information mixed in with the facts. Or we attempt to clarify, and de-bunk, where by we earn the moniker of being "too sensitive", or "insecure". Its a formula designed to make us lose, and it relies on our good will towards the R53 and the owner's community. We could easily be dishing out worse on the R53 and making life miserable in the other forum. But we don't, we never would, because we like the R50/53 and we certainly don't want to offend or upset the R50/53 owners. The whole thing is sad and drags down the entire community. The R56 owners are not driving this - its just a handful of people that behave this way. They are taking advantage of our good will. Shame on them.

 

You asked for negative comments on the plastics. Those were negative comments. Whether or not they would have an impact on buying was not the question ...

No wrong. You asked for the reference. I don't care. You asked where are the negative reviews of the cheap plastics.

My comment was

IMO, dissecting all these reviews is a bit silly only in the sense that only you ... in a test drive ... should make up your own mind. Reviews are nice to get other opinions but when all is said and done ... they are just more opinions.

c'mon you know the answer to that

BINGO ... we got a winner. The more you defend your choice, IMO, the "old school" will continue to rather keep their whine.

I have repeatedly said over and over again ... out with the old, in with the new. Ignore the nahsayers ... if you feed them, it makes them happy. THAT is my point

Its no different than all the ppl who keep complaining that MINIs are cute/chick/clown/gay cars. Who cares? (well clearly that does upset some owners but I dont understand why ... the ONLY people you got to please is YOURSELF and your SO).

You all need NO validation. The old is gone ...

IMO, the more you defend your choice, the more you feed them. But hey, I don't own one but did own a MCS and would never feel the need to defend my choice to anyone. They don't like it ... tough ... my money, my car, my business ... You don't like my choice of cars ... hey I've owned Toyotas for many years. Lots of MINI owners bash them. Well thats too bad. I like them but I learned a long time ago, there is no point is fighting it because "they" don't get it. Certain cars are meant for specific reasons. Same about SUVs. Lots of MINI owners have voiced displeasure about SUVs. Well too bad. I like my Toyota SUV. They don't like it ... I don't feel offended ... again, my money and they don't have to like it. Only I HAVE to like it.

Peace and I will keep out of this now. I only offered unsolicited advice about this "defending the MINI" stuff because I've seen it over and over again the last couple of years ... if your really upset that other ppl don't like your car ... your in for a lot of frustration ... but thats just my opinion.

 

No, I really don't give a crap that they don't like my car. What I care about is that they are so rude, obnoxious, insensitive that they won't give it a rest and get out of our faces. The question at hand is not why do I care what they think about my car, but why do they care so much about hating my car? Get a life.

 

You brought up reviews commenting on "cheap plastics". I.e. you brought it up first. I merely responded saying: if we're going to talk about that, let's really talk about it. You cited references which was a lot more useful than just an offhand statement, especially because most of the references you cited were in fact very positive about the R56's interior and its overall quality and the criticism was mixed at best.

Seriously. Step back a second. You keep telling us that we're soooo over-invested. That we shouldn't take reviews so seriously or bother talking about them.

You were talking about reviews! You! And you are obviously very invested in this conversation. And in telling us how to be car enthusiasts.

Who says any of this is about "defending" a choice. You are the only one taking it that seriously. We are just discussing the car. If we weren't interested in that, what would the point of the forum be? And as I said, in discussions across many threads, the reviews thing keeps coming up. So, ok. This is a forum for MINI enthusiasts to discuss all sorts of things. Obviously many people want to bring up the reviews. Let's just talk about it. No one needs to be "on defense". It's just a conversation.

 

One bit of perspective that has not been brought up is that the reviewers are not normal people. They drive many cars in the course of the year, and when they are under deadline, they need to intuitively grok the layout of controls, etc. Their prioirity is to get in and out of that car, wirte the reveiw, and get on to the next project. They may love it, but to them it is a job.

Mini owners, on the other hand, live with the car day in and day out. They have learned where the controls are and if they have complaints about ergonomics, they are not based on the fact that the layout is not the same as every other car out there.

One quick example. The windshield wipers are one of those controls that have been bashed in reviews. Why? because unlike most other cars on the road, it takes consecutive movements of the stalk, instead of continuous movement of the stalk to set points for each speed. Is one inherently superior? No, one is just more familiar, and for someone writing on a deadline, it is a pain to learn the foibles of the Mini. For us, that is part of the fun.

 

Also, let me point out what may be lost in the current 50 vs. 56 debate. This thread will be of huge value for those considering a new Mini purchase. (I wish it had existed when I started lurking on this site.)

 

I can venture a guess and its just a guess. Suddenly they are no longe "new". If you bought an 05/06 ... the focus may be off those cars. While vendors may still sell parts, most likely they will now focus on the new engine. That's life.

Some ppl do not like change (probably for a lot of reasons)

If they are rude ... IMO, the best thing to do is to ignore them. I just wouldn't get worked up over it because you like your car and that is ALL that matters

In that other thread because that is what I read. But hey, its all good. I have absolutely nothing against the R56 whatsoever. Its the future of the marque. I do have pretty strong opinions on the first gen car but they are no longer relevant because they are no longer made. I hope MINI reliability gets a lot better than the past.

A good point. The are just doing their jobs. They are also human and not everyone likes everything about every car. Life would be pretty boring if that was true. In fact, I think your comment is pretty profound. Lots of MINI owners are very passionate about their car and know every detail. Auto reviewers, except for maybe reviewing certain iconic cars, do not ... there are just too many cars out there that need to be reviewed.

 

One more worth picking up:

Top Gear magazine (May 2007, P124) - "Piling on the Heat". A nice "hot-hatch" comparo featueing the MCS, Peugeot 207gti, Vauxhaul Corsa VXR and Renaultsport Clio 197. Granted, we don't get any of these others in the US, but a good read all the same. Gives you an idea of what the MINI is put up against in other markets. I've driven the 207gti and the Clio 197 and can say they are REALLY FUN CARS!

Also in this issue Top Gear rates the R56S as #31 of the top 100 fastest cars (spoiler warning: their way of calculating this is... strange at best. Still a good read).

 

I haven't read the actual magazine but if your referring to this

http://www.topgear.com/content/timet...astestcars/71/

There is no order to how those cars are displayed despite having the #31 on it. You got Radical, GT3, Lambos, Z06s with higher numbers and Lambos, etc, with lower numbers

Sorry ... there is no apparant order to those pics.

 

"This one goes to 11" -Nigel Tufnels

 

That's one of the quotes from the review/comparo (on the hot hatches). The whole article goes into great detail on every car. It picks apart each ones faults and then explains whats great about them.

As far as the "Top 100", the print mag goes into detail as to how they ranked the cars. It's not "fastest" in the conventional sense (ie. top speed). Explaining it the best I can: It seemed like they were trying more to rank them based on the perception of speed and overall fun factor. The Bugatti Veryon doesn't even make an appearance and I believe it's truely the "fastest" (street legal) car made.

 

I read Bugatti Veryon at top speed will go through a tank of gas in ten minutes,finding a place to go top speed in a Bugatti Veryon is another story.

 

Got it Not sure I would agree with those ratings with all those supercars behind it including a Radical but hey ... its just another review

Where?

Ever hear Bill Cosby's "200 MPH Car" record (yeah, it's a record). Its the story of when he always bought Ferraris and Caroll Shelby told him to stop buying that foreign stuff and buy one of his Cobras ... Funny Stuff

One of the lines in it was something like:

Q. "Why do you need 200 MPH car? Where can you drive it that fast?"

A. (Cosby) "Oh, any side street will do"

OK, you have to hear Cosby deliver the line Cosby rocks!

 

Ooops! I was wrong. The Veryon does make an appearence. No. 12, I think. A small sidebar I missed the first thumb-through. Sorry for the mis-information.

 

This month's Grassroots Motorsports (Vol.24 No.5 August 2007 - P.71) has a review of the R56 on page 71. Granted, we already know what that group thinks of the car, but it's a nice article all the same.

There's also a nice suspension set-up article on page 93 where they walk through setting up a R53. Some great info for the beginner, or expert alike. Overall this issue is worth picking up IMO.

They also have a very short blurb online regarding a loaner R56S and a few comments from the GRM crew about the car (there's also a link to Per's personal R56 there, too): http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/new...ars/2007-mini/