R56 DSC or No DSC?
#76
Secondly, stability control systems are not all the same. Some, like Porsche's PSM, allow for extreme slip angles before intervention, so there is plenty of time for a driver to react to an incipient skid.
For people like you and Robin, that's great if you think so. It's also great for the average, poorly educated American driver with a latte in one hand and text message being formed in the other.
And as I said in my first post in this thread, it's great for icy/snowy weather. But I've put over 125,000 dry weather miles on six cars having stability control systems in the last eight years, and I've found them to be nothing but intrusive. Especially DSC on BMW products. So I will not get it on my Mini. I may be in the miniority here, but for where and how I drive, it "helps get my desired results" 0% of the time.
#77
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This argument has gone on a bit much. Really people that are saying that the ABS cant do what DSC can do why not just go out in a parking lot induce a slide and see for yourself? Really try that when you say it cant do the same thing because, the modern 4 channel ABS works quite well. I have talked to plenty of fellow car enthusiasts I know and they all have agreed that they can use the ABS to get the car in line just as the stability control would do. Everyone has their own opinion but I personally don't want to take myself out of the equation and would always turn it off if I had it. If you think you cant react better than the computer by all means get it, I don't want to be hit by you.
But who needs it on the MINI anyways. Its got this great safety feature that when its icy out it just stalls and you cant go anywhere
But who needs it on the MINI anyways. Its got this great safety feature that when its icy out it just stalls and you cant go anywhere
#79
Not once did I attempt to discourage anybody from ordering DSC. I have simply been expressed my (admittedly minority) opinion on the subject. That's what these forums are for.
#80
You're wrong on a couple levels. First of all, it is very unlikely that "the most skilled driver" will be in a situation where there is a loss of control. Secondly, stability control systems are not all the same. Some, like Porsche's PSM, allow for extreme slip angles before intervention, so there is plenty of time for a driver to react to an incipient skid.
#82
In an emergency situation we can rapidly get to the edge of the envelope of both the cars ability and our own. Personally, I’ll take every edge I can get.
#83
I am still getting DSC. The videos were very convincing. I really did not realize how effective this system is or how well it works (yaw sensor and all) until watching the clips. IMO, $500 is really not much money to spend if it can save me from catastrophic misfortune.
I also do value competitive driving and improving my own skills in the right place and time and would be against the idea of DSC if you could never turn it off.
I also do value competitive driving and improving my own skills in the right place and time and would be against the idea of DSC if you could never turn it off.
Last edited by goosefraba; 12-17-2007 at 06:44 PM.
#84
I didn't specify public roads...but in the 82 posts thus far in this thread, racing hasn't been discussed. And there is no racing series that I'm aware of that allows stability control. Not sure how you could misunderstand or think I'm "changing the definition", but whatever...
Highly skilled drivers know better than to throw cars into uncontrollable situations. Does that mean situations don't occur that require evasive action? Of course they will. It's covered in Advanced Driving 101...you should give it a try. It's the average driver that drives too close to the truck loaded with boxes and yanks the wheel when one falls off (the example in the Bosch video), or drives 70mph on an unplowed road (the 5th Gear example) and expects the car to react to abrupt inputs.
Plus, of all cars on the road, the Mini is one of, if not THE easiest to maintain control of. With light weight, low center of gravity, sticky tires, front wheel drive, fantastic steering and brakes, great visibility, etc. it is just not a car that is at high risk of oversteering, and understeer is very easy to overcome, even for a novice driver. If you don't think so, get DSC if it makes you feel more secure.
Highly skilled drivers know better than to throw cars into uncontrollable situations. Does that mean situations don't occur that require evasive action? Of course they will. It's covered in Advanced Driving 101...you should give it a try. It's the average driver that drives too close to the truck loaded with boxes and yanks the wheel when one falls off (the example in the Bosch video), or drives 70mph on an unplowed road (the 5th Gear example) and expects the car to react to abrupt inputs.
Plus, of all cars on the road, the Mini is one of, if not THE easiest to maintain control of. With light weight, low center of gravity, sticky tires, front wheel drive, fantastic steering and brakes, great visibility, etc. it is just not a car that is at high risk of oversteering, and understeer is very easy to overcome, even for a novice driver. If you don't think so, get DSC if it makes you feel more secure.
#85
This thread is about whether someone should order DSC.
Discussion of whether it is good for highly skilled drivers is irrelevant to the original question. This is whether the average driver should order it for their MINI.
Discussion of whether it is good for highly skilled drivers is irrelevant to the original question. This is whether the average driver should order it for their MINI.
#86
...and if you read my first response, you'll see that I expressed my opinion.
It was you who threw the first punch...
#87
#88
You have been misinformed. All Minis have traction control (ASTC) as standard equipment, which is not the same as stability control (BMW/Mini calls it DSC; also commonly known as ESC or electronic stability control).
http://miniusa.com/#/learn/FACTS_FEA...ety_Features-s
http://miniusa.com/#/learn/FACTS_FEA...ety_Features-s
#89
I was lurking in this thread the other day and viewed the video demonstration of DSC posted by rkw. I am glad I did. I have found that when there is snow, as I am pulling out of my parking lot at work and turning on to the street, I can't get going. In busy traffic this can be difficult to deal with. So I turn off the DSC and pull out no problem. But then I don't think to turn it back on. After watching the video I am careful to always turns it back on again.
Today, I had first hand experienced what I presume was a driver without DSC. I don't really know. Four lanes of traffic and I am sitting in the left lane at a traffic light heading southbound. A little Kia SUV is eastbound and turning left into the northbound lanes. So she will be going right past me as she turns left. Wells the roads are wet and she is going too fast. She is cutting the corner a bit too. She starts to slide and is headed right at me. I am at a stop and nowhere to go and no time to react. Right before she seems destined to slam into me in my MINI her back end goes into a spin and she spins right around me. Her back end going into a spin and essentially takes over and instead of running into me, her back end sliding around keeps her front end from slamming into me. I hope I described this in a way that it can be understood.
The guy in the right lane next to me rolls down his window and tells me I should buy a lottery ticket today. He said it was like watching a movie and was certain I was going to get creamed until the Kia went into a spin.
The lady is very lucky she didn't roll her Kia and it appeared that it almost did. She ended up in the northbound lanes facing southbound and looked like quite an idiot.
So this may be a case of her not having DSC actually saving me. If I understood the video demonstration of DSC correctly, if she had DSC her back end should not have spun around like that. I don't really know enough about it, I am just guessing here. I will let you decide for yourselves and certainly it is an unusual circumstance and not an argument against DSC. Just so happened that way this time.
Today, I had first hand experienced what I presume was a driver without DSC. I don't really know. Four lanes of traffic and I am sitting in the left lane at a traffic light heading southbound. A little Kia SUV is eastbound and turning left into the northbound lanes. So she will be going right past me as she turns left. Wells the roads are wet and she is going too fast. She is cutting the corner a bit too. She starts to slide and is headed right at me. I am at a stop and nowhere to go and no time to react. Right before she seems destined to slam into me in my MINI her back end goes into a spin and she spins right around me. Her back end going into a spin and essentially takes over and instead of running into me, her back end sliding around keeps her front end from slamming into me. I hope I described this in a way that it can be understood.
The guy in the right lane next to me rolls down his window and tells me I should buy a lottery ticket today. He said it was like watching a movie and was certain I was going to get creamed until the Kia went into a spin.
The lady is very lucky she didn't roll her Kia and it appeared that it almost did. She ended up in the northbound lanes facing southbound and looked like quite an idiot.
So this may be a case of her not having DSC actually saving me. If I understood the video demonstration of DSC correctly, if she had DSC her back end should not have spun around like that. I don't really know enough about it, I am just guessing here. I will let you decide for yourselves and certainly it is an unusual circumstance and not an argument against DSC. Just so happened that way this time.
#90
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