.fwiw...back in 1990 BMW ran an equivalent 1,000,000 mile Mobil1 lab test on one of its 325 engines , changing oil at "regular intervals" (???)....24/7/365 for over 4 years on the test bed.....on tear down there was no wear ....the oil consumption over the 4 years was less than 1 litre per 40,000km......on new cars, i change mine at 100 miles, then again at 1000 and at every 5000 miles thereafter....now approaching 5000, i will change it again and have it analyzed....i just replaced my rusted out beater chevy 2500 pickup bought new in 1994 which has over 350.000 on it.....the engine runs fine with practically no compression loss

 

Mobil 1 isn't what it used to be. It now comes in a variety of qualities. You need to insure that you get one that meets ACEA A3.
It would be interesting to know what the intervals in the test were.

 

________________________________________-

...it was always full synthetic regardless of grade ....0-40 is the only ACEA A3 as far as i know and it's relatively recent...been using it in all my cars for as long as it has been available maybe 6-7 years or so....

 

Looks like all the more proof to change your break-in oil at or before 1000 miles.

 

Cu Fe Cr Al Pb Sn Mo Si Na K Ca Mg Zn B P Ag Ba Ni CD Ti V Mn W A VIS
1 3 32 1 25 0 0 82 14 7 3 2041 597 1246 8 1024 0 0 1 0 0 0 4 NEG NEG 11.3

This was sampled at ~10,000 miles with 4000 miles on the oil - German Castrol 0W30. Obviously there is still some wear but it's way down from the first test and pretty much indicative of a still breaking in engine. This oil starts out with a cst @100C viscosity of 12.1 so there is some drop to 11.3 after 4k miles. People more familiar with this I'm sure can comment if that's normal or not.

I had already paid for 5 tests before realizing these guys don't do fuel dilution. If no one else has that tested besides smackboy in a while perhaps I'll pony up for a Dyson anaylsis as well just for another data point.

 

Blackstone labs does great tests as well. I've gotten my oil tested there quite a few times and they've been great.

 

I told every one about this problem a few weeks ago, when I change my oil at about 5000 miles, the oil looked like ink, and felted like water, and much of you out there where making fun of my thread. (FIRST TIME OIL CHANGE WARNING).. . For those that listen to the dealer saying "Don't worry about oil change now you have a long way to go" , Well think about future damage to you engine and turbo.............Like i said before, if you plan to keep your Mini for 2 or 3 years then go by what you dealer tells you, but if you are going to keep it for the long run then you know best......

 

What was their conclusion this time?

Since fuel dilution seems to be an issue for MINIs (probably due to direct injection) going with another lab might be a good idea. I plan to send my oil out for analysis fairly soon. It has about 5,000 miles on it since last change.

 

They said everything looks good. When I asked about fuel, they said they just look at viscosity to infer excessive fuel in the oil.

 

Robin, I would be greatly interested in seeing your used oil analysis. Please remember to post it here.

 

That's probably the worst way to measure fuel dilution (although it's the cheapest - i.e. free). The reason is, there are a lot of things besides fuel dilution that can cause viscosity breakdown. In essence, your lab didn't "test" for fuel dilution at all.

A more-reliable method is using the decrease in the oil's flashpoint to estimate how much fuel is in the oil. This is fairly accurate, as long as you don't have antifreeze getting into the oil, since antifreeze in the oil can drop the flashpoint as well.

The flat-out best test for fuel dilution is gas chromatography. This is where a sample of the oil is evaporated, and the resulting vapours are tested directly. I know Dyson uses this method - I don't know about the other labs. (This is probably part of the reason the Dyson test series is $60 - you get closed-cup flashpoint measurement, gas chromo testing for fuel dilution, Total Acid Number & Total Base Number (TAN/TBN) readings and a detailed audio interpretation of the results).

Remember, oil analyses are like x-rays -- Any reasonably-competent tech can take an x-ray, but it's the skill of the doctor that interprets the x-ray that actually determines how much good information you get out of it.

Same with the oil analysis labs - for $15-20, you can get a readout of the wear metals and one or two other parameters, along with a comparison of how your car's doing against a generic set of measurements from "similar" engines/mileages, but that's about all. You may get a one-line writeup that basically says "change oil now", or "test again in 3,000 miles", or you may not even get that.

I'll see if I can get Terry Dyson's permission to post one of his audio interpretations. I think you'd be impressed by the amount of time and detail involved in his interpretations.

 

I've ordered a sample kit from Blackstone. They do the flashpoint test for fuel. I assume that one can tell if there is coolant contamination from their other tests.

You can get a Dyson analysis through their site, but I'll probably go cheap and get their standard analysis for $22.50.

 

Yeah, I know. I didn't realize they skipped a few tests when I bought 5 sample kits. So, I'll use these up on my other cars as well, and use another lab, probably Mr. Dyson to verify fuel dilution.

 

Am I reading the UOA right? Cr=31 Pb=25? Seems a bit high compared to the 1st UOA. On the other hand Fe and Al are way down which is good. Si is similar to the last one, I would guess it is probably RTV silicates from gasket sealant or something like that so it's probably OK.

It's going to be at least 6 months before I get another UOA. I am going to run some MINI Castrol oil for about 5-7000 miles and then get a UOA of that. The $64 question for me is whether the MINI Castrol oil really can last the 15000 OCI they claim. I suspect not. I suspect that even if the viscosity holds up, the acid fighting ability of the oil won't last that long.

Maybe you should consider getting a more detailed UOA next. Something which will give you fuel dilution, TBN, TAN. Then once you've seen what is really going on inside the engine and optimized the oil, you can use the prepaid UOAs just to monitor wear metals.

 

I'll be curious to hear what you find out. I've had two detailed analyses done on the MINI-branded Castrol on my R52 'S', and the results didn't support a 15,000 mile OCI. One sample was oil that had been in use for 12,500 miles, and the other sample was after 9,000 miles. In both cases, the oil was just about at end-of-life. Viscosity had begun to break down, TBN was lowered below TAN, the flashpoint was down to around 300° F, and the fuel dilution was particularly bad, at about 1.5%. I've since switched to a different oil that's giving me beautiful analysis results, but there's no way I'd go 15,000 on the MINI oil, at least in a first-gen car.

 

Not doubting your claims at all, I'm just really confused - if such is true shouldn't a noticeable degrade in performance be felt in just about every MINI that follows the OBC intervals? Or does "bad" oil only show its effects in the long term (read after the free service and possibly even warranty have expired)?

 

Well, "bad" is a subjective term when it comes to oil analyses. My engine wasn't crapping metal shavings into the oil pan or anything like that, but the oil's reduced viscosity, lowered flashpoint, elevated wear metals and lowered TBN readings would probably lead to significantly increased deposits/wear over the life of the car.

Terry Dyson is also fairly conservative when it comes to how long to leave oil in the car, at least compared to some of the other labs. I've seen Blackstone reports where the TBN was down in the ~2.5 range, and their interpretation was basically just "leave the oil in for 3,000 more miles and re-test". (/shudders)

Also, the MINI oil I had tested wasn't totally shot by 9-12k miles, it was just approaching end-of-life, so 15k mile intervals probably wouldn't destroy the engine. But considering that if I went by the OBC recommendations, I'd have gone the last 20,000 miles without an oil change, I'm not about to trust the OBC, based on how those two samples looked after just 9-12k miles.

I'll pull a sample of the RLI BioSyn I'm using now when it hits 10,000 miles next week. Based on how it did after 6,000 miles, I'm optimistic. If I can get excellent results on the BioSyn with 10k mile intervals, I'll probably just stick with that, since it will be easy to keep track of when the next change is due.

 

Is the data posted anywhere? I'd like to take a look see. If I had to guess I would say that MINI/BMW Castrol is probably similar in formulation to German Castrol.

Which weight RLI BioSyn are you using? Do you have a UOA of that? I plan to use BioSyn in the MINI after I get the UOA results of the MINI Castrol at 5-7K miles.

I'm also using BioSyn in 2 other vehicles (non-MINI/BMW), and so far it's good (based on a single UOA).

 

I'm not a mechanic or tribologist, but I did stay . . . blah blah blah. Anyway, when oil goes "bad" the viscosity decreases until it is no longer within the SAE spec e.g. from mechanical shear or fuel dilution. The additives get depleted fighting oxidation and nitration and acidity increases (increased acidity=more corrosive). Things may start to wear out a little more quickly e.g. rings, cams, pistons etc.. Each engine and usage is different so problems may show up quickly, or longer term. Our MINI we own it and plan to keep it beyond 100K miles, so I'm more **** retentive with the maintenance.

 

Here's the thread I started comparing the UOAs from the MINI-branded oil and the 5W-30 BioSyn that I'm using now.