LFB is pretty standard practice in rally cars.

And yes, these days spectator safety is a bit more of a concern

Here's another cool heel-toe video, this time with double clutching.

 

My dad always taught me to keep my left foot off the break. I guess, since I'm not a rally driver, I'll still stick with that I'm pretty sure my Mini won't need to be driven like that...cool video though

 

That's what they taught us in high school drivers ed class back in a previous millennia. However, they weren't teaching us racing techniques.

The logic behind training people not to two foot it was mostly for drivers of automatics who keep one foot on the brake while the other is on the gas. Often, they would be applying the brake without realizing it. So, their brake lights would always be on, and their brakes would get hot and fade. It was also thought that they might painic in an emergency and put both feet down, racing the engine and applying the brakes -- not the best way to stop quickly.

 

Left foot braking is ONLY USED IN RACING!! its not something that you would have the need for in everyday driving.

I believe it is most prevalent in rally racing where drivers will use both the gas and the brake at the same time to increase weight on the front wheels to aid steering, as well as to keep the turbo speed up so that they can exit the turn with more boost.

Its something you dont want to do normally because you can overheat/fade your brakes since race car brakes can reach crazy high temperatures and still work effectively.

 

I could have sworn that I read on something 'official' from MINI to utilize lower gears rather than long braking on long downgrades to control speed, to avoid overheating the brakes?

Also, although rev matching when downshifting is primarily a track thing and a fun thing at best on the street, it can be a useful habit to have in an emergency situation that requires heavy braking to avoid a situation and then quick acceleration to avoid the situation that sometimes immediately develops after - you manage to slow in time to avoid a hazzard in front of you, but the loon behind you doesn't react so well and is now going to plough into your rear end and you need to accelerate away. Probably rare, but the one time it happens.....

 

I don't use brake when I take 270 degree exit ramp.
70mph....let go of gas....shift to 5th with rev matching without using brake.....car slows to 60mph....shift down to 4th with rev matching...car slows to 50mph....take the sweeping turn marked 25 mph. ( I have taken it at 57 mph).....come out with gentle acceleration at 50+mph in 4th.

 

That's not MINI-specific advice; that's just good practice on any downgrade. Excessive application of the brakes will lead to brake fading. Instead, let the engine regulate your speed on the downhill.

That is different from downshifting to slow yourself down, where you are causing wear on the clutch when you engage it without rev-matching. On a downhill you'd rev-match to the appropriate lower gear; if you picked it right, you can remove your foot from the accelerator and the compression of the engine will cancel out the acceleration from gravity and you'll be coasting along at your desired speed.

 

+1

 

There were. I think that's the Portugal Rally in the vid. Joaquim Santos tried to avoid spectators in the road there in 1986, and crashed into the crowd. Three people died and 31 were injured. That was probably the biggest reason Group B rally was canceled after that year.

--Dan
Mach V

 

I was thinking about that. If some idiot got in the way, the driver was probably best off just hitting him/her rather than risking losing control and going into the crowd.

 

MINI also recommends leave the car in gear as you brake in normal driving conditions waiting until your RPMs are low before shifting into neutral.

In normal driving I target the RPMs to be between 2500-3000 while I cruise, and max out around ~4k in non-spirited driving. So if the RPMs drop below 2500 I'll down shift to maintain enough Tq. and Hp on tap that I can easily getup and go when I want/need to (there are times the safest action is speeding up to get out of the way of an accident) I've had passengers comment about my down shifting in normal driving when I don't even realize I do it, in stop and go traffic certain things become automatic (pun intended).

Exit ramps are unique as each corner on a race track, no two are exactly the same, all have different quirks backs, radii, surfaces, enter and exit speeds traffic conditions, debris levels and so on. For a constant radius 270 degree interstate to interstate turn, most important part of the entry is whatever it takes to do so SAFELY, upsetting the car and spinning, launching off into the grass, hitting a guard rail, blowing out the engine all make finishing the ramp irrelevant. so after you're in the deceleration lane the next step is determine the smoothest line through, start at the exit figure, so where you want the car to be, right on the gore point, now go back to the earliest point you can get on the gas from the white line to be there, now work that to the outside gore point of the entrance point of the turn, this gives you the line with the least amount of turning of the steering wheel. Now brake enough that you enter the turn at the top of the gear you want to exit in, adjust speed within that gear to maintain the line do not abruptly lift off the throttle though, be smooth through out. when you hit the point where you can get on the gas lay onto it full to redline and upshift at that point. In general terms thats the simplest I know how to explain it, it takes lots and lots practice with each unique turn to get it perfectly.

 

Lamcc83, I think you're getting a lot of pretty technical (and sometimes conflicting) answers to your questions. Here's my take on YOUR particular situation.

First, use the brakes. That's a pretty quick speed you've got going into that ramp (and I'm using this particular situation as an example for all of your driving). You don't need to downshift at any point to slow your car down--you're not racing, after all. When you do reach the speed you're aiming for by braking, THEN you need to pick your lower gear. Understand, the racing guys might disagree with what I'm saying, but you're not racing--you're trying to drive your first manual car on city streets and highways! So--brake first, reach your next speed, then pick the gear you want to use for it.

Third and fourth are your friends. In this '07 MINI, with all of its torque, you don't need first or second for most of your driving (stop and go excepted, of course). They are WAY too low most of the time! Fifth and sixth will be too high for subdivisions, and similar situations. Most of your driving, from subdivisions to local roads to frontage roads will be in either 3rd or 4th.

Forget about double clutching/heel-and-toeing. That's just too complicated for normal street driving. If the racing guys, or the enthusiasts want to do it, that's fine. And you might want to learn some time, too. BUT, you're brand new to manuals, and have a brand new car to boot (not even broken in yet, right?). You need the basics--how to handle that exit ramp, how to pull away from a light or stop sign, how to slow down to turn a corner, etc. The nice thing is, all of these modern cars have synchronizers between gears. That's the reason you don't hear a terrible crunching noise when you shift! Assuming you don't do bad things (like missing a shift), you'll do fine for your typical driving day without all the shenanigans these guys are talking about!

Shifting shouldn't be complicated. You should work on developing a "feel" for what gear you need, and experience is your best teacher. Just drive, drive, and then drive some more! Think about how much you need to brake (just like in an automatic), and then think about the next gear you'll need for cruising at the new speed.

Oh, and don't forget to have fun! Once you've got this manual thing down, you can really play with your new car (after break-in, of course). You've got some really nice roads around Austin!

P.S. I don't know the ages or experience levels of the other guys (girls, too?) on this thread, but I've been driving for 40 years, most of the time in manuals. I've always been pretty friendly with my clutch, even in spirited driving, and I've not had problem one with a clutch or transmission. My last car, a '94 BMW 325i, was at 190,000 miles when we sold it--original clutch, no hint of a problem with the transmission.

By the way, something no one's mentioned, but it's important--when you're waiting at a light, or in heavy traffic where you're stopped for a minute or two, slip your gear shift into neutral. That takes the load off a little part called a throw-out bearing. If this part goes out, you'll have to replace it--the part's not very expensive, but getting TO it costs big time!

 

^^^^^^^^
Thanks for being the voice of reason here. Very nice explanation.

 

+1 on Dafodildeb's.

It's a freeway exit, not the last stage of the rally.

 

Dafodildeb.... good advice for the novice manual driver. Hopefully when you are more comfortable with your car, THEN you can come back to this thread and practice the rev matching when downshifting.... or heel toe braking when there is NO ONE around.... :-)

 

That's basically the same method I use for ramps, although occasionally I'll take it down to third if it's tight.

 

Just remember to clutch in if your revs fall too low while braking

 

when you guys "heel toe" in the MINI, do you actually use your heel and toe? I tend to just rock my foot over to the gas because the pedals are so close... not to mention i cant brake smoothly without actually pivoting my foot off the floor.

 

Yes. That's the way lots of people, particularly those with larger feet, do it.

 

No offence ghosthound, but that's nothing like accurate ('used in racing'), though you're right about everyday driving in places without adverse weather!! In Scandinavian countries it's encouraged as part of driver training and in Scotland most enthusiasts (as in - those keen to improve their confidence, skills and safety) use it to keep momentum on very slippery surfaces aka snow) - and the ability to change direction is far more enhanced than with 'normal' driving techniques.

Granted, in everyday weather conditions (sun, rain) you shouldn't need it, but on snow and ice it's a life saver - far quicker to use than the handbrake and much easier to moderate.

For all you guys/gals that value driving enjoyment, why not book into a 'Rally School' type class? You'll get more out of it than you imagine - for about the price of a set of winter tyres

Edit: And it's HUGE fun learning.......

 

well i dont think its taught as a standard driving practice anywhere in the US. Im not saying that its not useful or cant be used safely on the street but for the common driver, they probably wouldnt be able to execute it correctly and safely. Also, i dont think its something you would ever need on public roads when you have DSC on.

 

I owe you an apology ghosthound, I came across as a self righteous git in that post - you're right about not being able to execute it in normal conditions safely (unless you're Walter Rohl )

I think it's a bit of frustration creeping in about how people will sometimes spend on their cars, but not on their skills.

 

Some youtube search found this....BASICS.....