BMWs ASC system will apply the brakes to the front wheels to distribute torque. Not great for performance but it will get you through the snow. It of course cant do a full wheel lock but for most situations its going to do just fine by being able to power each wheel independently. BMW has unfortunately been moving towards this type of system to replace a mechanical LSD (see 1 series). Situations where the LSD will work where the ASC wont is when you probably shouldn't be driving at all, but then you are talking serious constant snow like UP Michigan.

 

Whatever stops the car from spinning... I still spun out with the sticky track tires and DSC on a dry pavement. Nothing will save you when you are overly aggressive but if you know the limits it is safer than having an electonic nanny.

 

It sounds like you won't notice the difference without an LSD. DSC was the way to go.

 

I have to disagree, we just got a 325i with DSC and no LSD, and it does surprisingly well in the snow (and it has been snowing -alot- here. The ASC/DSC does a great job of keeping the car moving forward.

 

I can confirm... I attempted to go up a long icy/snow packed driveway this weekend. I made it farther up with the ASC on than with the ASC off. Even with running starts, the traction control helped the MINI go farther (in a straight line).

 

Same thing happens to me occasionally, although it's not the DSC that's causing the problems, it's the ASC (or AST+C, or whatever it's called on the '06s).

If you could autocross the car with ASC off and DSC on, I bet you'd find that that the DSC isn't really slowing you down.

 

My response was primarily towards OldRick. I only quoted you because you gave him a blanket "+1" affirmation. As for my "irresponsible" remark, it was intended as a general statement for anyone who slams DSC as being nothing more than a "nanny" that has no relevant value, especially when there are many other less informed potential MINI owners truly benefit from DSC, and may be swayed by such distorted negativity.See, again... you're projecting an image that DSC is a substitute for driving skills... which also suggests that driving skills can recreate all of the actions that DSC can. Well, they can't. DSC, when used in appropriate situations (street driving with unexpected situations), is an addition to driving skills, not a replacement for them.

Your cynicism does not help the situation.That logic is so flawed it's ridiculous! So, when you ride a bicycle, or even ride a motorcycle for many years... and you don't have an accident, that means you don't need a helmet, right? The best cyclists and motorcyclists in the world still wear helmets, don't they?

All it takes is one time in an unexpected situation (in any weather condition), which is exactly what public roads increase the risk of (i.e. not the track). Historical reference to previous driving and not needing it has no relevance!That's fine - you're entitled to your belief... I'm only concerned about misinformation and slander of a feature that could very well save lives. A feature that the government has recognized the value of, and mandated for all cars in the near future. A feature that you or anyone else are still welcome to turn off whenever they like.

I just want those who ask about this technology to be well informed with accurate information on the benefits... and yes, the downsides (which is more about the mandatory ASC feature anyway).

That's why I keep replying to these threads, Crashton. I HATE misinformation, and some of the attitudes expressed (by other people too, not just you) towards DSC are exactly that.

 

While I see your point, I'm with Crashton on this.

DSC is the equivalent of a safety net, but with a safety net people will tend to take risks they wouldn't otherwise. Driving too fast in poor conditions, for example: This is where I agree that DSC is not substitue for driving skills; DSC does not repeal the laws of physics, and can just as easily get the driver thinking he/she has a safety net further into trouble as it can save their life...wheras driving skill would have kept this person out of a dangerous situation.

 

If someone believes they need DSC to be safe then darned well they should buy it.

I didn't & I'm saying so. How irresponsible of me.

I made it home again on a slick day with no DSC or ASC. Man I'm just a lucky guy. I'm off to buy a lotto ticket. With luck like this I can't lose.

These DSC threads are great.

 

Very well said Allen.

 

By that logic, people should put narrow tires on their cars so they have less grip, and therefore will drive more safely. They should also unbuckle their seatbelts so they are really careful.

I think your conclusion is wrong. The OP has stated:
The likelihood that she will think, "I have DSC, I can corner as fast as I want." is very slim. DSC will just be there if she makes a mistake, or is faced with a accident avoidance situation. It is my impression that most people don't look at DSC as a way to go faster, but rather as a safety feature that will help them in adverse circumstances. It is there if you make a mistake or someone else around you does.

 

I agree with the earlier air bag analogy: ....never used 'em, never needed 'em.....but damn glad they are there......I do not think they make me drive any faster or more reckless. My car has DSC and I leave it on 99.% of the time...as I drive at highway speeds around a wet curve, I do not think: oh, I have DSC so I can drive faster, it is just there ready to save me if called upon.

 

No, Robin, you are not following my 'logic'. Seatbelts and airbags are there to survive accidents, while the operator of the vehicle should have the control to avoid accidents. By your logic, cars that drive themselves and are controlled by Big Brother are the best. Maybe the safest, but all skill and entertainment are taken out of the equation.

Yes, DSC may help in some situations...however, far from all situations. I would recommend it for all drivers that don't have skill...which is 98% of the American public. But DSC will breed even poorer drivers...all it takes is the 'safety net' to catch a skill-less driver a few times for he/she to take more risks behind the wheel, whether it be agressively taking a corner or passively chatting on a cell phone.

 

Narrow tires are a hoot. Slipping & sliding is big fun. I changed tires on my Miata to 205's. It changed the entire nature of the car. Took all the fun out of it. I'll be back on 185's & sliding around around when I wear the too wide Yoko's out.

I'm thinking of going smaller on the MINI's tires too. Although it is not as balanced as the Miata is so it may not respond better with smaller tires.

 

Another great post Allen.

 

Does your car have airbags? Anti-lock brakes? Electronic Brake Distribution? Of course it does. Would you have opted out of all of those if you were given the chance? I doubt it - if so, you're obviously driving the wrong car. Does having those options make you choose to drive faster than you should?

Don't single out DSC with logic that does not universally apply. That is a function of the driver, not the car... regardless of what car you have, or what options are on it. Clearly, common sense prevails, and yes, the laws of physics are finite... but that doesn't mean you should slam or shun technology that exceeds your own abilities, which DSC absolutely does.

My entire point about DSC is that it helps to add a layer of protection against the unexpected. You know... the stuff that happens out there that would surprise anyone, even Michael Schumacher. Is DSC guaranteed to save you or anyone else in any situation? Of course not. Is it possible that it will save you? Absolutely.

Even Michael Schumacher believes in this technology for public roads... are you saying you're a better driver than him?

HERE - WATCH THIS:


(FYI - ESC = Electronic Stability Control, the "generic" term for the technology. DSC is BMW/MINI's own version of that same technology. It also has other variant names, like ESP, and GM's term StabiliTrak)Again with your screwed up logic. Since you never ever seem to have accidents, go ahead and remove your airbags, seatbelts and ABS. You always seem to come back with this wise-*** yet totally illogical point about "oh look, no accidents, I must just be lucky". How about moving on to logical arguments?

Another very worthwhile video, if you have 10 minutes to spare... also highlights the positive aspects of traction control (i.e. ASC) too:


Sure, the first thing that you naysayers will point out is "Driving 70 mph on ice is stupid". Of course it is... but even in less hazardous conditions, at less hazardous speeds, DSC can still prevent you from losing control when you least expect it. That's the point. If DSC technology can keep a car at 70 mph on ice under control, then it most certainly can handle lesser (but still dangerous) "surprise" situations.

 

A couple of my cars do, and a couple of older ones don't.

The ones that don't are driven differently, and are purer, more entertaining driving experiences. The more weight and more electronic nannies, the more diluted the drive...so to get back to the original thread question, I would prefer LSD to DSC. But I don't expect people like you to understand that concept.

 

Your backhanded insult is not appreciated. Stick to the facts & the technology, don't resort to personal insults.

I fully understand and appreciate LSD, and I have it too on my MINI. I even delayed the order of my MINI in order to get it (since the factory LSD was just about to become available). I have also noticed how much it has helped on my many spirited drives - particularly at the Dragon.

However, as much as I can respect the "pure" driving experience (I'd LOVE to have a classic Mini if I had the time & training to keep it maintained), the fact of the matter is that these MINIs are driven by a wide variety of people in a wide variety of conditions, on public roads. The "track cars" here are few and far between... and even the "sunny weekend day drivers" are also relatively rare...

So, with safety being an important issue and concern to most of the current and potential MINI owners, it's important to put technologies like DSC in the appropriate perspective.

Slamming the technology as a "nanny" and insulting those who are trying to correct blatant misinformation does a disservice to the vast majority of MINI owners. Did you even watch the videos above?

My answer to the original question (having to choose only one) would therefore be "it depends"... on their driving goals/style and the types of conditions they'd expect to be driving in. If I lived in Southern CA, I'd pick LSD over DSC. If I lived in Michigan, Maine or anyplace with heavy snow and/or rainfall, I'd pick DSC over LSD (unless of course the MINI was to be my "other" car for sunny & dry days, or the track).

Fortunately, I didn't have to choose, and I got both... especially since I drive my MINI all year around in every condition.

 

Man these DSC threads are entertaining for me. I think you like them too Edge. Gives you a chance to slam folks who feel they don't need your beloved DSC. IMO the best you will ever get here is agreeing to disagree.

Motor on safely.

 

No insult intended...I honestly don't expect the majority of people to appreciate the nuances of driving.
Well, I do live in Southern CA. So we're on the same page after all.

 

I chose LSD. Someone told my wife that it made the car safer... that just about clinched it.

 

The words "I don't expect people like you to understand that concept" are very much a backhanded insult - surely you can see that. It makes much more sense then... but at the same time, I ask you to please remember that the vast majority of people who read your negativity towards DSC do not live in areas that almost never see snow or icy conditions, or even much rain.

I believe that DSC has measurable value in all conditions, including dry pavement, but it certainly is much more prevalent in poor conditions. I find it odd that neither you nor Crashton has in any way responded to the information I provided on Michael Schumacher's support of the technology, nor the Fifth Gear one that very clearly demonstrates what it can do.

I too disable the system from time to time, but the situations are very specific, and I'm glad to have the risks reduced for the majority of my drive time, when it remains on.

 

In post #63 I acknowledged that it is great for most drivers.

The OP was asking for our personal choice, and mine is obviously in the minority. I honestly don't care what Schumacher or Fifth Gear have to say on the subject...I have years of personal experience on and off racetracks in a variety of different performance cars so that I may form my own opinion.

 

Perhaps some people here should go to a road course and give it a try. Lap Times with DSC on. Lap Times with DSC off. If DSC is saving your butt, then you obviously need it. If you're getting better lap times with DSC off, then congrats, you can control your car. No NOT Auto-X. A Real Road Course.

 

That would be an interesting test, but it is not relevant to real world driving on the street with unpredictable conditions, which is the whole point of this thread - the OP didn't ask "for a track car".