Not if it's raining

 

it is patently absurd to say no auto transmission can ever beat a manual. This is not the first time that a car equipped with an auto has beaten the same model with a manual.

 

thanks for the link/lesson... stupid torque converter.

I guess that is why there is such a huge difference in gas mileage esp on the mini, they traded all the efficiency for torque

 

In a direct comparison of two cars, auto and manual, a manual will ALWAYS put down more power (A torque converter by design uses torque from the car to shift, hence it will NEVER put down as much power). Auto transmissions are much more complicated, and almost always weigh more than manual transmissions. Shift speeds aside, you will always put more power down to the ground with a manual transmission.

I'm not aware of any automatic transmission car with a torque converter that has ever consistently beat a professional driver around the track. I'm also not aware of anyone who actually enjoys driving that thinks it's more fun to mash your foot to the floor and hold on to the steering wheel for dear life either in a straight line or on the track.

Actually being in control of your car, what a concept .

Wait until the first time someone swaps out the micro-turbo on the stock S with something larger (Since that's about the only way people have been able to make much power on the R56). They'll realize father quickly that it's nearly impossible to launch an automatic turbo car once the turbo doesn't spool directly off idle anymore, maybe someone will believe me.

I'd LOVE to see someone drive a car with a turbo that spools around 2500 RPM's (Where most do) with an automatic transmission.

Auto: No power, no power, no power, no power, 3 seconds later and BOOST!
Manual: Clutch drop at 3k RPM's, Boost, annnnd you're doing 60 .

 

C&D just tested the new BMW 135i and got a better track time with the auto. The notion that manuals are faster is kind of old school. Autos are so much better now than the old days it's scary. Formula 1 cars have used sequential paddle shifters since the 90's and they are the fastest shift car racers in the world. That should tell you something right there. They aint' messing with no steenking clutch. Weekend racers would probably go way faster with an auto 100% of the time (but will never, ever admit it!). I think manuals are more fun personally, that's why I got one.

 

How many shifts does the manual need for a 1/4 mile run?

How many shift does the automatic need for a 1/4 mile run?

Or 0-60

If the gearing is different between the two, and one can get there with one less shift...

 

F1: Uses an extremely complicated (And expensive) MANUAL TRANSMISSION, they're definitely not automatic. A sequential gearbox. One of my best friends does all the marketing and sales for an Indycar team, so I've had a chance to see how this works in person.

F1 transmissions have more in common with VWAG's DSG and motorcycle transmissions than any automatic transmission on the market today.

135i: BMW Themselves list the automatic as a tenth of a second slower in their own literature. http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

They also have the torque converter locked 99.9% of the time to decrease shift times.

Slushbox auto's have come a long way, but they still can't compete on the same level. Is the difference imperceptible to 99% of the drivers out there? Sure, but that's not the point.

 

Gearing is typically taller in Automatic Transmissions (Cruising/Gas Milage). I'm not familiar with the auto on either the R53 or R56, never driven one. You should be able to hit 60 in 2nd gear in the MCS 6-Speed though.

 

I hit sixty in 2nd in my auto, I believe... I just bought the thing sunday, I will check it out on my way home...

well if I have the chance.

 

But does a Form driver have a clutch pedal to push in for every shift? I thought they didn't, but the article really doesn't say (it just says there's a clutch). I think they may just have a paddle shifter and a gas pedal and the clutch is automatic. And it's the clutch that screws we commoners up, not the shift ****.

 

Your obvious bias for the manual (which I happen to agree with, without the need to deride those who prefer autos) does not change the fact that autos HAVE beaten manuals in tests by highly skilled drivers, with repeated runs.

 

Surfblue says:
BIG +1
I drive a six speed. wouldn't have it any other way.
However, autos have been beating sticks at the drags for decades. It's NOT a black and white situation; it varies from vehicle matchup to vehicle matchup.
When I was a kid, (back between the time they discovered fire and invented the wheel) there was a class that ran at the NHRA drags (Cotati drag strip) called "Cheater Class". There were these two guys that trailered in 55 Chevy business coupes. You know the type...stripped interiors, radiused rear wells with big slicks on wide rims, raised up, ladder bars, air induction scoops down in the grill running to a big four barrel. Four barrel was as big as they could go. These two guys usually ended up as the final two competitors every Sunday in that class. Very often, the green car with the B&M hydro trans beat the guy with the four speed. That hydro never missed beat. It was a machine...the four speed was run by a human operating a clutch. Sometimes, though, it went the other way. They were tough competitors. They turned low 11's. Remember, this is 1963 general time frame.
I never thought for a minute that a Mini Cooper was a drag race car. How much time are you gonna spend at the drags as compared to other types of driving? Automatics have come a LONG WAY. And really, if you want to spend your time DRAG RACING, there's a lot of better choices out there, no matter what the tranny.
I don't like the "versus" idea. We all drive Minis. I don't care if you have a two speed trans with the shift lever outside the window. Drive what you like. To me, this is a non-issue.

 

All sequential gearboxes are without a clutch pedal yes, the clutching is computer controlled, and very fast, but completely removes driver involvement, and most of the "Fun Factor". I happen to like the DSG transmissions, if my car was purely a competition race car (With the only goal to remove every last bit on the car that was slowing it down) i'd consider retrofitting a sequential transmission, but as my daily driver on the street, it would completely remove any feel from the shifting process of the car, and I'd never do it.

 

Wow, this thread went to two pages in a very short time!

I thought this was old news. I've heard that the auto is faster in 1/4 mile for about a year now. I've also heard that the Porsche with automatic transmission was faster than the manual. I believe that automatic transmissions have become quite popular in high-end dragsters as well.

 

I heard they are putting out the CLubman again...

 

Yes, they have, on drag strips, in cars that already make 900 HP (so losing a few ponies isn't THAT big of a deal), and have rear wheel drive...

If you want to drag race, go buy a rear wheel drive American car (Not directed towards anyone in particular, just in general).

American's do pretty much nothing right on cars except making them go REALLY fast in a straight line, or making them cost almost nothing.

There aren't a lot of American car's out there that can keep up with anything over in Bavaria in the twisties, but conversely, not many German cars have the sheer 0-60 acceleration of American cars.

Look at the differences in racing:

American racing: Driving in a circle at 160 MPH for 3 hours (Wow... fun )
European racing: Driving at 120 MPH on a dirt road with 90 degree turns, flipping cars, jumping cars off hills at 90 MPH, driving at night on a 9 foot wide road covered in ice, etc. Or even better, doing 220+ MPH in an open wheeled race car with an engine that rev's up to 19k RPM's in the middle of a major city, and pulling 5 g's around hairpin turns.

It all depends on what you're looking to do with your car. If you're (Sorry, dunno how else to say it) truly that lazy and don't want to shift your car, buy an Auto. If you want to be connected to the car, and have full control over what it's doing, buy a manual.

 

Dunno where you heard that, the Carerra S is almost half a second faster to 60 with a stick shift, also has a top speed of 5 mph faster.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...turesandspecs/

The Turbo is slightly faster in an auto, but if I was buying a 150k dollar car with that level of performance, i'd rather it take 1/3 of a second longer to 60 and I actually enjoy driving it...

 

jhayd11 - to answer your question. Yes, I believe that the Roadfly test reflects their actual results. All the rest is commentary...

 

Did someone let it in the house?

 

So not to **** anyone off but I'm kind of curious about the OP's original question, why did the auto beat the manual in a drag race?

Let's forget for a second that, no, minis aren't dragsters, that, yes, manuals are more fun, and that, yes, a manual mini will probably do better on a road course. The bottom line is the auto beat the manual in this one thing even though everyone thinks it shouldn't. Why?

 

I think I heard it from a Carrera owner. He may have been talking about the turbo.

 

Rally fan myself, the mini s won me over with the extras compared to the evo. Just a better everyday car with the fun factor still there.

And again remember I was not throwing down an auto over manual... I just wanted to know why it was faster in a straight line...

I still run awd's on some off road tracks when I get a chance, I will still buy a GP if they come out with it for the new mini, just wanted to know why?

 

Gearing? It puts less power down, probably doesn't shift as fast, so it has to be gearing. I could make my car do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds if I wanted, but it would redline at about 90 MPH.

More than likely the car was optimized for something in particular, and it had the unintended effect of making it .2 seconds faster on the drag strip.

 

thx

 

I drive a manual because I like to shift.