And you know what...

I can understand why the Mini gets poor ratings...

Questions like...

was the price fair... Uh... No... (Pretty much sticker)
Did you have to wait for a sales person a long time... Uh... Yep
Did the dealer have a good selection of cars in stock... Uh...Nope
How many defects have you had...Uh.. Five (no place for me to say if they were major or not, but In my case they were... Transmission interlock, turbo inlet, Brakes, Sunroof, and Navigation display)

So it looks like the survey, based upon the questions, is slanted twords cars that are very expensive where they fall all over you for the sale and go over the cars with a fine tooth comb before delivery to fix every little thing (i.e. like Porsche has done for me) or they are geared tword mass produced cars you pick and drive home the same day.

 

What's unfair about sticker price?

 

very good point! i agree anytime u buy a limited production car u will have those issues working against u.

 

I'm curious whether they ask anything about brake dust. I was told they did (Minis are guilty, so are Porches). Did they ask about radio/wiper controls? Interesting that they don't group "defects" into severity categories. I know that having the MA gush over you is all the rage now but to be honest with you I'll be happy if I never talk or see him again (and I haven't in 17 months). I'm a real easy sale because I've done my homework, I'll pay X or I walk out. I don't need a car, I just maybe want one for X price. The only variable is my trade, and I don't trade in very often. I don't expect a whole lot from them, just show me the cars, get 'er done paperwork, go over it and let me the heck out of there.

 

I couldn't say it better myself

 

It's no wonder Mercury does so well with these surveys...

 

I've never paid sticker before for a car, and have bought much lower and more exotic ones than a mini and always got a deal.

 

If you didn't want to pay sticker...why didn't you buy a car that wasn't in short supply?
If you had to wait for a salesperson and didn't like it....why didn't you leave?
If you didn't like that the dealer didn't have a selection of cars...why didn't you go somewhere else?
If you don't understand that cars are mechanical beings that will break and require repair, maintenance and constant care...go buy a beater and treat it like an appliance.

Otherwise, quit your bitchin', relax and enjoy your MINI. That's what Old Farts like me do...life is too short

 

Take it easy, he was explaining why he thinks MINIs don't get good ratings. To answer all of your questions, its because he wanted a MINI...

I had a terrible experience buying the car, and I did walk out. I eventually came back though because I wanted a MINI so bad.

And to respond to your comment about cars being mechanical beings, I think its perfectly reasonable to not expect any major defects like he had in a brand new car.

I don't really think you thought about this reply at all, actually...

 

Which JD Powers survey? Hopefully not "initial quality" because what does most of that have to do with initial quality?

 

So its fair that the manufacturer artificially inflates the sticker, with the assumption that it'll be negotiated down in most case. Rather than setting a realistic price which you can actually buy it at.

You've just been falling for a marketing trick, you think you're getting a deal when you're really just getting the price it was meant to sell for. Above sticker I have a problem with, but sticker price is fair.

 

 

Yep it was the initial quality survey, and they ask a lot which is not quality...

But yes 5 major defects in a 3 month old car is initial quality...

As for paying sticker... Mini is not trying to be the old saturn where there were no incentives and the sticker was the sticker.... It's just the dealers won't deal because they don't need to because none will give you a great deal. Back when I ordered my Audi S6 avant, the dealers didn't deal either on an ordered car, but I managed to still get about 8-10k off because the dealer wanted to me to buy my next porsche from him. You'd think that Mini wants me to move over and buy a BMW at some point...

Anyway...

I do love the car... and I did want a Mini, so I put up with waiting for a sales guy and the MSRP and custom ordered my car (I always order so I never reget missing an option).

 

I would have thrown bigger fit at the way the dealer treated me regarding the issues I've had. They werent huge issues, the infamous check engine light and some major bumbling around getting the Buzz floormats... but entirely preventable delays of MY time and not handled gracefully.
If I hadnt have expected some mishap I might have coughed up a hairball on Ottos floor immediately. A crafted email got some attention. Not an impressive response, but a lukewarm response.
And no, I dont really want to see any issues with my new car. The check engine thing was annoying / embarassing / unnerving....
I love my boy though. Hes worth it. Doesnt mean the dealer doesnt need to get their sh*t together pronto.

 

Funny, honesty is brutal. I just did the survey for my recent bmw service visit and gave them a 3 for timliness. The lady said "excuse me, are you sure?" and I said they were lucky for that. I told them I could wait one hour then I need a loaner, they kept telling me it's almost done, it's almost done... then 3 hours later it came out, done. That was not timely. It's the only way they will improve. Now, I'm just waiting for the service dept to call, because they will.

 

J.D. Powers is a joke. I know, I am a Quality Engineer for a company that supplies Nissan with electronic parts. I work with Nissan Engineers everyday. The J.D. Powers Company rates cars and everything else on how much money that they can get from the particular company that they are rating. I have been dealing with those idiots for years. They wouldn't know a quality car if it bit them in the b.....!

 

I'm siding with Postlapsaria!!
They saw you coming TWICE!! I can't believe you went back to the same dealership and "bent over" for them.

Cars are "mechanical" you cannot expect every car manufactured by *fill in blank* to come out "perfect". Unless you are the person who has the $$, knowledge and know how to build it yourself and mass produce for others, then you can put "Your Name" on it!!

I explained this to my SA today as I have to take Molly back in for the Shift Interlock issue....and NO I am NOT upset. This is my 1st Brand New Car and I'm no Spring Chicken. I am OCD when it comes to my vehicles, but I am also realistic. Problems are bound to occur, it is just a matter of when.

 

OH..I thought about it as long as I needed to. Too sarcastic for you? My reply brought forward what we all knew to begin with...loves the MINI Now...it's time for you to take it easy

 

3 was generous on your part. If they want 5s, they have to learn to earn them. My dealer was fairly average during the sales process, and yet they made a priority of explaining why I need to give them 5s on the post sales survey. I'd rather be honest and let them hear my real opinion so that they can respond to it, than to give them 5s because they begged for them.

 

MSlatter, I agree with ya. Plus, I always leave my name so they can contact me for follow up, what good is the survey if you don't offer them the opportunity to contact you to hear additional details or offer to make it right.

 

I just filled mine out too and tend to agree with the OP that the reason why the MINI gets poor ratings on this survey is, in part, something that most people who go to buy a car completely do not get about buying a MINI. Right now, these cars are in such hot demand that the dealer can get away with not kissing a customer's behind during the initial sale. People are used to car salesmen kissing their butts for their money.

 

After reading about the JD Power initial quality survey several places my conclusion is that it is indeed garbage, has zero to do with how your car is gonna come out for you, quality or otherwise. It lines somebody's pockets (mostly JD Powers)
I also agree that it's tacky for the service people to beg you for 5's "because my job depends on it". If they're just average they should get a 3, better gets more. Mini overfilled my oil on my first yearly service thing (takes 4.5qt, they put in 5qt). I was concerned about that possibly causing a problem so I sucked out some oil with a tube after emailing them about the gaffe. He got back to me a couple days later, offered to pay for the tubing, but asked me not to dock them on the survey. Huh? The lady who took my money gave me a survey to fill out before I got the car. I'm not sure I ever got another one after the fact. Really makes you wonder about what good they are for anyone. I'd just have a senior QA person cruising the service dept all day shadowing worker people, asking customers questions on the spot, not some bonehead questionaire sent out.

 

I used to work for a market research company. I cannot give any specifics because I signed an NDA, but I can say that after years of working for a market research company, I believe strongly that these surveys are designed to line pockets.

Mostly, it lines the pockets of the companies that conduct the surveys because the surveys themselves are worded very carefully so that the resulting data tells the client paying for the survey exactly what they wanted to hear.

 

Hello my fellow motorers!

Maybe I can give a little bit of insight from the perspective of a Motoring Advisor. MINI is very concerned with the JD surveys. The regional reps have visited all of the dealers and helped us make sure the customers are very familiar with their cars. A big part of the low scores has to do with owners not understanding how certain features of the MINI aka "Idiosyncrasies" work. As a brand they are very invovled.

With regards to the MINI new sales survey they are changing the entire process. They are now going to be asking yes/no questions via email (no more phone calls) that will help determine what needs improvment. For example, "Were you greated properly when you first arrived at the dealership", "Was your MINI clean and trouble free at time of delivery", "Were you offered a test drive", "Were you contacted after delivery by your MA", etc. They will still be asking owners to give a 1-5 score on the overall experience.

Previously, new MINI owners were asked two generic questions "How was your overall experience" and "Would you recommend XXX MINI to someone else". The telephone operators would probe for more information but rarely would customers elaborate. In my humble opinion a survey like this would not help improve the MINI buying experience. Some of you may not realize that many dealerships will base a Motoring Advisors pay on the score that they recieve. In many cases they will deduct large amounts from our paychecks if we do not receive 5's. The process MINI used to score the surveys was 5 = 100%, 4 = 75%, 3 = 50%, 2 = 25%, 1 = 0%. You dont have to be a mathematician to see that a score of 4 or lower will greatly skew the overall percentage. Some of my previous customers refuse to give what they feel is a "perfect" score. This is understandable, but realize that our livelihood depends on these scores and if you feel that way you can simply refuse to participate in the survey. Personally I strive to give my customers an excellent buying experience. Sometimes after taking delivery things happen that are out of my control. I ask my customers that if they cannot grant a score of "5" that they let me know before taking the survey so that I can fix the problem.

With regards to paying sticker price for the MINI the market conditions definetely play a part. However you should realize that MINI does not offer the delears any type of cash back, special incentive financing or rebates to help offset the price. This is a big reason why there is no discounting. Ford, Toyota, GM.. all offer huge cash back incentives which allow the dealers to "discount" their vehicles. Check out MINIs KBB.com resale ratings. 6 years in a row MINI has held one of the highest resale value in the auto industry. A big part of this is due to the market that MINI as established. They do a great job of controlling supply, keeping high demand and setting a fair price.

Edmunds.com has a fun tool called True Cost of Onwership. You can determine how much you will pay to own a vehicle for X amount of years. They factor in sale price, depreciation, fuel, maintenence, insurance, etc. You might get a big discount on another brand but when it comes time to sell that car a few years down the road it will be worth alot less than the MINI. Also figure in the free maintenence, inexpensive insurance, fuel savings and the difference between brands in some cases is staggering. I will let you determine what is a "fair deal".

Happy Motoring!

Patrick

 

Thanks for the info.. I am sure you clients appreciate you efforts on their behalf.