Yep, design is always a matter of balancing risk!!

 

I wonder if VW has the same recall for their R32; their tips stick out way more than the MINI's. At least MINI's are recessed.

 

I suppose all cars could exhaust straight up, with little metal flaps on the top like some big trucks........... not very pretty but no-one will get burned.

 

I have one of the last 08's made, just picked it up last Friday. I can't get my leg to touch the exhaust tips, I can only guess they implemented the shorter tips as soon as it was an issue, not necessarily at the beginning of the new manufacturing year for 09.

 

I think you misunderstood the waiver: if you already have the shorter tips (which your reply seems to say you do), then there is no waiver involved.

They only want you to sign a waiver if you have the longer tips and refuse to allow the MINI dealer to perform the service action to install shorter ones.

Therefore no one will be asking you to sign anything, if you already have the shorter tips.

 

- no children
- no burns
- no special trip to the dealer
- no fuss if they replace it
- no fuss if they dont

 

Actually, I realized after checking my MINI that I would probably never have to sign this waiver. My comment on waivers is more general, if someone wants me to sign a waiver, I want to read it before I go to have work done on my MINI or anything else. It's the idea that you are given a choice at a time you may not have been fully prepared to decide the pros and the cons of the issue at hand. If I do or don't sign what other implied rights am I giving away, or will they not work on my MINI or even realease it after the work is done. I know I am probably over reaching the topic, but a waiver is an amendment to a contract, and since I am not a lawyer I don't feel comfortable in these situations.

 

After burning myself on the exhaust tips, I was happy to change them out for shorter tips. I consider myself to be borderline **** and the difference in looks is so minute that it barely deserves a mention. This really is no big deal and I feel happy that I won't be burning myself in the future.

 

A Release of Liability is not the same thing as a contract amendment. You also always have the right to fully understand anything you are signing, as well as the option not to sign it.

 

Called Mini USA,
said no way!
same bad *** tips, horay!

 

I guess you're a lawyer. I must have missed something, is a release of liability the exact same thing as a waiver? I wouldn't know without reading the content of each line. As far as I know everytime you sign something, at least in my line of business, your modifying or amending a contract. How does my right to fully understand anything I sign come in to play when I just drove in for work and someone is insisting I sign a piece of paper without which they may or may not start the work I came in for? Can I just say give me the paperwork and I'll look at it later and let's just do the work I came in for? If so I'm happy. Not everyones knowledge of the law is the same, I wish I didn't have to worry about things that seem common sense, but I do. I don't particularly care to go further down this line and my apologies if my views and concerns are unclear or appear trivial. I fully support safety as a primary issue in all aspects of design, and appreciate MINIs recognition of a safety concern. Happy and safe motoring!

 

Nope, I'm not a lawyer, but I've studied law, in as far as it's good to know your enemy. Let's not worry about it, subject dropped.

 

AND he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night....
(insert a little levity to a heavy thread.)

 

 

They didn't ask me they just did it, just like they changed the wipers and the cabin filter. I'd imagine that someone who refused to accept their offer to replace the longer pipes with safer ones might just have to acknowlege their refusal in writing despite Mini's recommendation of the switch and why Mini thinks it's advisable, nothing more than that. I doubt that there's a lot of legal terms to understand in there. We offered, you said no, that's the end of it. Now if for some goofy reason somebody gets burned and for some goofy reason you want to sue Mini (not that anybody would ever do such a thing of course) then that refusal could have a bearing on your case I would think.

 

One big difference between the MINI and non-hatchbacks with center exhaust is a matter of what you do back there. I thought the burning was a bit silly at first since it never happened to me, but just last month it happened. The reason was because I had something in on the floor of my back seat that I was reaching for from the boot, hence I was leaning quite close to the car to get it.

 

Yep, the same thing happened to me early on with my car. I was reaching deep into the back for something on top of the folded rear seats; I was at the right (or maybe the wrong) angle and found my shins really close to the pipes.

I guess the whole thing depends on how you look at it. Right now, I see it as a set of free new chromed exhaust tips, with free installation. What's not to like about free?

 

Amending a contract is different than a modification. Yawn on going into that.

A release of liability is legally different than a waiver of liability.

A release may be used when someone is already liable for some act, for example, the release says "I forgive you and won't sue." It presumes the existence of a claim for which someone is being released. For example, assume a child burned himself in the parking lot. If you could get the parent to accept $1500 for med bills, you would turn over a check, and most important, and have them sign a release of liability that the payment "settles" all claims [or released you from liablity for burning the child.]

A waiver deals with unknown future events, such as MINI pipes that have yet to burn someone. Or take lease payments. There is a term in all leases that says a landlord's acceptance of late rent payments does NOT constitute a WAIVER of the landlord to consider future late payments a breach of the lease.

Horror: In discussing this issue on NAM you have already "agreed to a waiver" because you have notice of the potential hazard and you have opted to not install the recessed tips. [Assuming you have refused the free exchange.]

For all of you who are not up to speed, the new way of conducting discovery in litigation is for lawyers to 1) ask what net forums, chat rooms, or blogs you belonged to or belong to; and 2) to investigate everywhere on the Net and your computer on what statements you have made, etc.

Assume a toddler stumbled into your MINI and received 2nd degree burns on his cheek. Even an average lawyer would sue MINI and you. They would sure MINI for defective design, failure to warn [possibly you], etc. They would sue you as owner of the car.

Won't discuss liability or comparative negligence [parent letting child run free, whatever], but even an average lawyer would find this Site and your comments. He would then have the proof that 1) you had knowledge of the hazard; 2) you refused to fix the pipes, for whatever reason, and 3) you are at least partially at fault.

That's why I say be careful what you say on these sites. Even bonehead lawyers know that the Net yields lots of evidence to help prove their claims.

</negative post>

 

Good thing mine are already in spec - they do not extend beyond the bumper. My questions relating to the waiver were addresses in an effort to further understand their intent and usage in this type of case. I am sure the complexity our legal system is way beyond my ability to grasp, as a simple layman, I do on occasion question the rational behind an issue, but after due consideration side with public safety. I do consider it very peculiar to the extent we have let our legal sytem carry us away from the proper responsibility of all parties including parents in these issues. I am also sure sooner or later someone will question the nature of forums and blogs, and whether they constitute a reliable basis for discovery. I'll leave it to more learned posters to point out how I can best protect myself from the negligence of others.

 

Thanks, MichaelSF, that was informative and clearly written.

 

Had mine fixed today. Pretty quick and easy. They detailed my car while it was in and found another issue that hadn't been tweaked. Took care of it as well. Frankly, you can hardly tell the difference, and unless I knew to look for it and took out a tape measure, would never notice. The difference is that now my kids won't burn themselves. My 7 year old already has a scar.

So to all the people who think it is horrendous that a company is responsible enough to fix a problem, I guess you can forgo the fix. But don't tell me about how it is the end of the world as we know it because a corporation does the right thing. I guess you are the same ones who would say Ford shouldn't have moved the gas tank on the Pinto. After all, it was just a "unique" feature of the car that it might go up in a fireball when rear ended. Sure, you could argue that it wasn't the driver's fault and therefore should have been Ford's responsibility, but can you blame the kid who tries to get her book bag out of the back as irresponsible when she is trying to keep up with her stuff and ends up with a potentially permanent scar?

 

Anyone know how this looks with a JCW bumper? Right now my exhaust tips (non JCW) are almost right in line with the bumper, I don't know if they need to be shortened as much as with the stock bumper or not. I haven't gotten burned, but I've come close enough a few times to be concerned about it.

 

Got mine done two days ago, looks okay. It looks like they cut the output pipes and put on new tips. The tips can be taken off by unscrewing the allen bolt underneath.

 

My first reaction was: I like the look and why should I change it. But there have been some very good points made in this thread. For example:

1. Centre mounted pipes on a hatchback are problematic when we consider access to the cargo area, which is not really a "boot" at all. If the MINI had a proper boot (that is, a trunk), like my old Mini, the risks of burns would be less.

2. The change in look is minimal.

3. We could be sued personally if we refuse a reasonable step to lessen the risk to our friends and neighbours and one is injured.

There are others, but these are enough for me. So, my boy is gonna get circumcised after all.

 

I'll be keeping the originals,I like the look better.I just dont see how someone gets that close to get burned.
Plus mine dont seem to expand that far past the bumper as the one photo shows