Hey everyone, I've been lurking for a few months here now and finally joined up in order to be able to see some of the galleries receiving high praise and I'm glad to say, I wasn't disappointed.

I currently drive what you'd call a beater and while it's gotten me where I want to go, maybe not in style, but it does the job. But it's not exactly the safest thing on the road and I've had to sink a fair amount of money into it. I started toying with the idea of getting a new car sometime next year a few months ago . I was looking around at the GTIs, Altimas, 3s/6s, and etc. when MINI just burst into my mind after I saw one on the road one day. I hadn't ever considered them a serious prospect before but after a good bit of research, I think it's safe to say I'm something close to obsessed with them and reading up on them on this forum. I've gotten a good bit of info from the latter so I'm grateful to you all for that.

I have time off from work/school coming up in a couple of weeks, which is pretty rare, and I was planning on going to check out a S model at the closest dealership which is about 110 miles away. I have some questions in mind to ask the salesperson/MA(?) but I just thought of some others that I hope you guys can give me an opinion on:

I'm not planning on buying a car anytime soon - I am saving up for one but I'm still in college and working as much as I can simultaneously but I don't have a full time job yet. It doesn't make sense for someone in my financial situation to get a new car right now plus I amn't willing to risk not being able to afford payments/insurance/gas in these uncertain times if I lose my job. I won't graduate (and therefore won't be able to get a full time job) until after the middle of next year so that's the earliest time I can even conceive getting one.

1. Do you think this is too early to go and look at/drive a MINI? I don't get the chance to make a trip like this very often so I need to get as much out of this one visit as possible. I am planning on making an appointment to talk with someone at the dealership but I don't want to be a discourteous customer and waste someone's time when I won't be a serious buyer for a while.

2. When I do get a [new] car, I plan to get a manual transmission. I drive an automatic now but the idea of stick shift just calls to me. I've learned to drive stick in a friend's car here and there but never really driven one around seriously on the streets or highways. I'm not bad at it per se, but I don't have any credentials as far as experience goes either. Given this is a one and probably only chance to drive one in the foreseeable future, should I ask to test drive a manual or an automatic?

3. I have some specific questions as I said about things I've seen on the forum (they're probably answered in one of the countless threads here somewhere but I just haven't come across it yet) to ask the MA, but what, if any, questions would you recommend I ask or suggestions/advice do you have for what to do on this visit?

Thanks, your time and input is much appreciated.

 

1. I would say its definitely not too early to go and test drive, that's what they are there for. Further, how they treat you now should be a good reflection of whether or not they are the kind of dealer you are interested in or not. I went to my local dealership when I was in your same position, ready to start thinking about buying a car but not ready to walk away with anything. My local dealer basically didn't have the time for me if I didn't look like I could afford a BMW (BMW/Mini Saskatoon), so as soon as I had the money, I went somewhere else.

2. Every standard is different, I've always driven a stick but my first car was a classic mustang and my other an old lifted Jeep. These things needed some serious leg power to get the clutch down, so anytime I get in a new car it is a real challenge adapting to a new car. Not to mention the break in on a new clutch makes it a little stiffer than usual. He/she will be ready for it.

3. Ask the MA anything you would ask on here, do your homework and chat them up, let them know your serious.

 

If you can find a place that has them, go rent one for a couple days.

A test drive is not useless, but it won't give you an honest feel for the car because you haven't had a chance to get use to it -- the "newness" can get in the way.

The problem is that there aren't many places that rent MINIs.

 

1) Never early & the fact you will be traveling 110 miles to the dealership should represent seriousness of your intent.

2) Test drive both. And Mini, in my 30+ years of driving manual vehicles, is one of the easiest manual transmission to drive.

3) Reserve a test drive before you go. I remember going to one of my local dealerships to "test drive", and there was not a single one to test drive. The whole lot was "sold-out". I wanted to try different sport suspension & wheel combos at the time

4) Make sure to test out the Sport Button

5) Appreciate how stable it is on the highway and how "big" it feels belying it's true size.

6) Have Fun !!!

6)

 

yes, do both if U can, and here's why: throughout the MINIs history, the clutches and dual mass flywheels on the S models have proven problematic at best. There are all kinds of threads here and on MINI2 about defective clutch and DMF issues; I had two defective clutches and dmfs replaced under warranty on my 2005 S in only 27k miles. BMW's supplier, Luk, cannot seem to get it together as far as build quality and longevity (altho there are stories of owners who have had no problems). Plus, some of the LuK clutch components, like the throwout bearing, are made of plastic, and that just seems wrong. And, there are horror stories out there about dealers NOT honoring warranty work on defective clutches and dmfs, citing "owner fault" or some other uber-lame excuse, when the failure is clearly due to a manufacturer defect or premature wear. It costs roughly around $2,600 to replace both; DM flywheels cannot be turned...

Even my Toyota truck mechanic, who works on BMWs on occasion, will go with Clutchmasters or some other aftermarket company, unless the customer wants OEM. "Junk" is how he describes LuK drivetrain components.

OTOH, the Aisin automatic tranny, while a slush box of sorts, has proven bulletproof dependable over its 4 year run. And dont let the naysayers chide you with their shrill cries of no driving involvment with an automatic, they are FOS. In Sport mode, the paddle shifters accentuate the driving and gear shifting experience. I have the auto on my 09 MCS JCW and sure you can feel the torque converter in the lower gears, but once on the highway 4-5-6/6-5-4 shifting is near-instant, and there's nothing like being able to shift gears while steering--with both hands on the wheel.

So yes drive both, and see what you think. IMO MINI/BMW needs to hold a gun to LuK's head and tell them to step up product quality, or else.

 

In the US you'll likely only find autos to rent.

 

If that, the only place I know that rents MINIs is a specialty rental in Las Vegas, and Ive heard about one in the San Francisco area but cannot confirm. Think y'r have to go to Europe to rent a MINI and not get charged an arm and a leg.

 

Its still pretty expensive in Europe. Even the cheap places charge about twice as much for a Cooper as you could rent a Ford Focus for. Most of the places I've rented MINIs from in the UK have been "Prestige" rentals and not cheap.

 

Ok, I called and made an appointment for next week. I can't wait .

I asked about whether they needed details on what model/options I wanted to try and he said normally they would but they had like 40 cars on the lot so whatever I wanted to try was likely already there. Apparently the MINI factory closes down in December so they load the dealers down with inventory prior to closing to tide them through. I will try to do both an automatic and manual like you guys suggested.

Hmm, I hadn't ever heard of this before. I work for a automotive electronics supplier and I'd only read favorable things about the Getrag manual, even in industry publications. I assumed they were the supplier for the entire [manual] transmission & drivetrain. Getrag was planning to building two new facilities in North America to produce a dual clutch system to compete with VW/Audi's. I test drove a VW GTI and the DSG transmission was pretty awesome so I was excited at the possibility of seeing a version of it in a MINI, to the point of I'd have considered holding off from getting one for a year if they were going to change to it. But any major powertrain changes like that take a year or two to work out bugs so it'd have had its own set of problems. I assumed they'd had enough time to work the bugs out of the supplier/quality chain for the current R57 build, and since they're not planning a redesign anytime soon. Maybe I should be concerned about it then if the problems are as common/widespread as your message indicates.

But anyhow, Getrag canceled it's plans for the dual clutch because it originally partnered with Ford & Chrysler, the latter of which has drastically reduced funding for project and delayed delivery schedules (which affects my job too), and the NA Getrag division went bankrupt after that. I was disappointed to hear about that.

I think you are one of the few I've read about so far that favors the automatic. Like you said, everyone goes on about how much more enjoyable a manual is to drive in general. When I drove a GTI, it had steering wheel mounted paddle shifters too. It was a nice concept to be able to go from full auto to quasi-manual at will. That way I can let the car drive and still chomp on some fries from the drive thru and go. However, and this is just a personal preference and not one I'm proud of having, I disliked the steering wheel mounted shifters. I commute about 30 miles a day minimum so once I'm on the highway, I like to relax which means sometime not having both arms at 9 and 3 (don't worry, I don't mean I take both hands of the wheel, I just move it further down), which I think is how you would had to keep them on the GTI. I don't know if they are mounted elsewhere on the wheel on a MINI but I'd rather just be able to shift from the gearshift. Nissan's CVT has both wheel mounted paddle shifters and a separate selector on the gearshift lever to 'shift' up/down that I liked better. Ultimately though I would prefer a manual though I will keep the auto in mind because of what you said.

 

I hope you like you test drive. If you're driving a beater now you'll likely become obsessed with owning a Mini afterwards! The manual tranny/clutch hasn't been a problem in the R56, neither has the Aisin AT, so go with what you want. After the test drive you'll need to carefully consider the options you want on the car. That's the big difference between Mini and Mazda/VW/Nissan etc. They don't have a lot of options compared to the Mini, and options add up fast. I put 8k worth on mine and didn't get the NAV or heated seats or the sport suspension. This forum is a good place to find out what people think of their options after they've used them for awhile, remembering that many will defend what they bought to some extent.

 

We bought a new '05 S Cabrio- manual transmission without ever taking a test drive. I didn't know how to drive stick. Rented a car and drove about 4.5 hours one way to get it when it came in. The husband drove it most of the way home. Since then he's hardly been allowed to drive it.

Just got a new '08 S Cabrio- manual transmission knowing full well how to drive a stick! Drove it all the way home from Houston. I actually don't think I've let him drive it at all! OOPS! (We got it in late September and it's got almost 4500 miles already!)

We have had to have the automatic transmission (CVT) cars when we've gotten loaners from the dealership before (non-S) versions and it felt like driving a granny car. Seriously, I felt like I couldn't get out of my own way. Now, I mean NO disrespect to anyone driving those cars... but just from my personal experience... there was really NO comparison. Maybe if I had started out with one it would have been different.

I have always had automatics... but in the MINI I love my stick! I like to tell my car what to do... it's fun.

Good luck going to the dealership and NOT coming home with one. Seriously... if you come back without one I will be very surprised. These cars are family members to most people on the forums for a reason. (And they are the family members that are loved.) Have fun.

 

Too late, I already am . I think my friends are sick of hearing about them and at me pointing one out on the road if I see one. None of them are really into cars (neither am I by comparison to the people here that actually know the mechanics and do their own mods/repairs) but I have recently started to read up on how things work. I've never done work on my car more than replacing a headlight bulb and once, duct taping the battery cable lug to the terminal (it was so corroded that the oxidation was preventing it from making good enough contact with the terminal) to be able to make it to the mechanic and get him to crimp a new lug on. My car is now almost 19 years old and the wear is definitely showing - the plastic on the inside door handle cracked off, the **** on the glove compartment broke off so I have to open it with the exposed pins, and other little things like that add up to drive me crazy. It's even worse right now because I've been driving a loaner BMW the past few weeks which is way nicer (except on gas) so I'm dreading having to go back to my little 100hp I4 that can barely make it up a hill with 3 people in the car and the A/C on. But on the other hand, it's also like, "Premium leather, wood trim, auto everything, ok I get it already, you're a luxury brand" so I hope I won't wear out on a MINI as quick.

Is he bad at driving stick or are you that protective of it? I have a friend who has a great aptitude with machines but I once watched him try to drive my boss's car and he couldn't get it out of first without stalling. He only had to go 200ft. but it took him at least 10 minutes and he swore he'd never get a manual. I guess it's not for everyone.

I know exactly what you mean. When I push the gas down all the way, my car gets a good bit louder but not really any faster and I hate it, especially on the highway when I need passing power. But this past summer, when it only took me $40 to fill up vs. my friend's $70-80 fillups for their SUVs, I had the last laugh. That was a big part of the reason I want a S - the power's there when you need it but still miserly enough on gas.

I wish I could bring one home with me already but I sure hope I don't end up doing it or I won't be able to go to school next semester...or eat.

 

No, he's not bad at it... I'm just a... well, umm... it's just mine!

Who needs school or food when you have a MINI?!?! I know. JK

 

Depending on where you're located check out Zipcar.com.They have MINI's for use by the hour or several days including cabrios.They are all autos but it's still a MINI.

 

That's an interesting site, I'd never heard of it. The closest Zipcar/location is further away than the dealership though but I'll be sure to pass it on.

 

Renting a MINI may be expensive (if you can find a place that offers them), but it's much better than spending $25-30k on a car if you end up regretting it. Not saying that's likely with a MINI... but even the most expensive rental fee makes for cheap buyer's insurance.

 

OP Getrag supplies the 6-speed tranny to MINI, not the clutch/dmf. the Getrags are generally very reliable, altho I never liked where first and reverse were located (right next to each other.)

the paddles are on the wheel, but I prefer this to be able to shift gears while turning the wheel.

Someone mentioned the CVT. Disregard this, they are not even offered anymore on the MINIs. too quirky and weird, I hated it on the loaners I drove, while my clutches and flywheels and everything else defective were being replaced.

Word is Aisin is developing a DSG-type 7-speed for hi performance FWD/AWD cars, as well as an 8-speed DSG for hi-performance RWD cars.

Plus me opting for an auto was medically-related. I have a bum left knee (old ski accident) that will require surgery soon, and I wanna be able to recover AND motor at the same time.

 

The only problem with test driving it before you can buy is the ache of not taking it home. But it's good practice for when you order a Mini and have to wait months to get it :D

 

Plus ce change, plus ce la meme chose. more reports are coming in of owners having clutch and DMF issues on the R56. When I was getting my car serviced yesterday there were two R56s in the shop, an 07 and an 08, getting new dual mass flywheels (same rattling/chattering issue) and master cylinders, all defective. so getting a manual = risky at best. If I did it again I'd dump the Luk components and go with a h/d Clutchmasters setup.

 

Yeah, I was the one that mentioned the CVT because I wanted to make sure that I was accurate with what I had driven in comparison. I love my '05 MCSC manual and that's why I got the same thing in the '08 before they change everything. I think when I drove the CVT (loaners) that was the only option available for automatic at the time. When did they change that? Was it '06? '07? Thankfully that wasn't the first thing I test drove! You say, "Too quirky and weird"... interesting- on another thread I just clicked on a link (to automotive.com I think) and checked out the '05 review. This was the quote about the CVT:

The available CVT, or Continuously Variable automatic Transmission, drains the fun out of the Mini Cooper. The Mini's CVT doesn't seem suited to this car the way the superb CVTs are to the Audi A6 and Nissan Murano. You may get used to it, but it's unlikely you'll ever love it. It's not as responsive as a proper manual gearbox. It bogs when coming out of corners unless you give it a lot of gas. Stand on it and it holds 5500 rpm until you lift. If you can't shift a manual gearbox, we recommend looking for another car. OR learn to shift for yourself. The Mini is worth that.

Funny... guess there was a reason I didn't like it.

When we were looking to buy a 530I we were considering the one with paddle shifters (is this the same as Steptronic?) but they didn't have one with it to try. We wondered how they worked. We took out the little sportscar that had them to see what it was like to drive. I found it a bit confusing... something about my foot up in the steering wheel didn't quite work for me. JOKING! Probably not much different than learning to drive stick. Maybe easier? Just different. (That reminds me- does anyone remember driving the old American cars with the headlight dimmers on the floor? I could never get the seat close enough to use it... so lots of people got high beams. Sorry. It was a big deal when control for high beams was put @ the steering column.)

Anyway, you are right about injuries. I took a flip in February in my 2.5" high heels and I couldn't even walk let alone drive my baby. It was excruciating to drive home but I had no choice! Gotta love all those chemicals in the body that help you do stuff after a major injury. (Yep left ankle of course... if it had been the right I could have just driven slower . ) I couldn't drive my Cooper for a few months and it was very sad. I felt jealous to see my husband drive off with her. I was also concerned about a prior left knee surgery as well... fortunately I have not had any issues... or maybe it's just because I'm having so much fun driving!

Helius- you said you have been "lurking" (cough-stalking-cough) the MINI. You've got the MINI bug already babe! It's too late for you now. Whatever you decide... I'm pretty sure it will be some of the best fun you've ever had! I smile every day I drive it. I sometimes open the garage door just to "hi". Think that's crazy? WELCOME! And if you think for one second that you'll stop talking about the MINI once you get one... OH NO my friend . You'll still point out EVERY Cooper you see, talk to as many owners as you can, you'll surely try to park beside one when you see one even if it is farther to walk and complete strangers will always want to ask you about it.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what happens. I wish you the strength and willpower to get through the test drive without bringing one home. It's probably worse than going to a pet store.

BTW- we adopted both of ours... didn't go through the process of ordering. Can't imagine the wait otherwise. (2-3 weeks was bad enough!)

 

When I see them on the road, they're usually going the opposite way so I wish I could find a few going my way so that I could admire them for longer than it takes to glance in the rear/side view mirrors. As for the parking next to them, I already do that .

I'll keep you updated. I never had a dog as a kid but I always wanted one, and I suppose this is pretty close, or the next best thing .

I'm taking one friend with me, he thought about getting a Cooper a few months ago but ended up getting a boring old Accord instead so he'll get to see what he missed out on.

I have some convincing to do on my other friends & family though. I was pointing the speedometer out to a different friend in a mall parking lot one day (he thought it was a clock ) and he was shocked at the size of the backseat. It would probably be uncomfortable for him but that's not a big deal to me since don't carry people all that often. My family, despite all being drivers of sedans, are under the impression that the Cooper is too small to be a safe car. I get tired of hearing that bigger cars means safer (what kind of a reason is that to buy a car anyway? You're okay with the fact that you being protected comes at a cost of probably causing severe injury to the other person?). But that's why they have crash test ratings.

All in all, I am still really excited about just driving one, even if I don't get to bring it home yet. I haven't had much luck with money thus far. Normally, when I save up a substantial amount, some emergency pops up that I have to spend it all on (usually fixing my beater) so I'm acquainted with waiting. I hate having to wait though. I'm hoping beyond hope that it won't get further delayed than planned now so keep your fingers crossed .

 

Biggers cars tend to be less safe in accidents. Most accidents involve car(s) skidding and going sideways, not just hitting a brick wall head on. An cars going sideways/skidding want to turn over/roll, and that's where people get injured. Big cars want to turn over more than small cars (doh). Minis are pretty safe cars in accidents, I'm amazed at pix of bad Mini wrecks and people walk away from them.

 

My reasoning may be a bit cloudy but the way I think about it, a heavier car has a lot of inertia compared to a smaller one (like a Mini), which is disadvantageous in an impact. During an accident, that inertia translates to the amount of energy from momentum transfer being absorbed & dissipated. A small car (by mass) means less energy is required to overcome inertia and get it moving compared to a big car.

From the occupant perspective in an accident situation, assuming identical situations for a big and small car, the energy transferred from an impact to a car is absorbed by the body and also converted into kinetic energy as the car is thrown [back]. A larger car with a larger mass requires more energy from the momentum transfer to overcome inertia, meaning a higher percentage of the energy is absorbed by the body in relation to small car which may be thrown further, but more of the impact energy is converted into kinetic energy which is spent moving the car, leaving less to be absorbed and dissipated by the body with the occupant inside. I'd rather roll/bounce/flip/etc. inside a structurally sound cabin than be the brick wall someone smashes into like you said.

 

A few years ago a gentleman was on his way from phoenix to Tucson in his first gen MCS. coming over a rise going 80 on I-10, he attempted to slow down for some dual lane obstruction (hay bales that'd fallen off a truck) and couldnt do it fast enough, so he took his chances on the shoulder. Losing control, he rolled his MCS multiple times before landing wheels-up in a ditch. Freaked out everyone who witnessed this spectacle.

But what really freaked them out was when he non-chalantly got out and walked up to the road nearly unscathed save for a few cuts and bruises. His worst injury was bumping his head on the roof as he unbuckled his seat belt.

These are very safe cars. My insurance agent owns one.

 

That's the way it is set up on the MINI. Many of us auto'ers prefer the lever, many of us prefer paddles. we are also a strong yet vocal minority that like to point out the fact that an auto R56 will consistently outperform the stick model in stock-class Auto-X by nearly a second/lap average, as well as 1/4 mile times.

It just shifts faster that a human operating a leg and arm going thru the clutching/shifting motions. Yeah I wish it was a double clutch setup like in a R32 or a Veyron but this one does very nicely in a dependable sort of way