That's just it, Red Bull... I don't think bashing is necessary, from either side. The two transmissions are very different animals, and people have different preferences, and for different reasons. I posted earlier precisely because SeaJayAre asked for an explanation of why manual is fun. I wanted to enlighten him that there's more to our fondness of MT than the mere physical act of pushing a clutch and moving a shifter.

We really all shouldn't be fighting and bashing. We're all adults... let's try to discuss our preferences like adults too.

While I personally hate ATs for my own use, I fully accept that they have their place, and some people just don't "get" MTs either (or... they do "get" it but they are unable to have one because of physical disability, commute conditions or an unwilling spouse!). No reason to be a "hater" for their decision... I'm much happier seeing these fine folk driving an AT MINI than some other vehicle!

 

Its not BASHING.....its banter...this has been a pretty fun thread and nobody here is serious. Yes, some like Auto and feel strongly and other have the same feeling about standard... Does everything have to be stuffy...there is no name calling or foul language going on here...come on. Yes this is a discussion and a good and fun one., I do not see many "haters" that are serious...

Actually you said you personally HATE AT's...how does that translate any diffrent..I own 2 AT's and 2 manuals...of course they have a place. Its just not a good place in a car....... I am not feeling any hate.

 

I believe manual transmissions to be for the Mini purist. I like the way I feel in total control of the vehicle when I'm driving stick. Also, I tend to pay more attention to the road and other drivers and traffic because of the shifting involved. I believe manual transmission makes you a better driver if not at least more observant to conditions than you would normally pay less attention to in an automatic.

P.S. Where can I find the different little yellow smily guy inserts?

 

Yeah but you brought up the word bashing. I'm just trying to point out that we not only want to keep this thread fun, but also friendly. That's all I was saying.It's vastly different, because I said I hate ATs, not AT owners. Hating a technology does not have mean you hate those who use and like it. I have many friends who don't even know how to drive MTs. Are they still my friends? Of course.

That's my point. We need to separate our emotions so that they are on the technologies, not the people who use them.

 

Interesting. For very experienced shifters this may be so as shifting is "automatic" (pun intended). But for less experienced drivers shifting adds another thing they have to think about which could take their attention away from the road for a very short period of time.

I did buy the AT because my knees hurt after a while of shifting in the stop and go traffic I commute in. But even in the days i had MT's I never had that this is the only way to go feeling. So all in all it is nothing but personal preference.

Now Mini tried to bring the best of both worlds with the ability to go into manual mode and use either the stick or the paddles to have that feeling without having to push a clutch in.

 

...and that's precisely why I mentioned physical disability as one of the very important reasons why people may choose an AT (beyond mere "personal choice").Well, I beg to differ in terms of "best of both worlds", because a computer is still in charge of the final decision on the gear changes, and it really shows sometimes. However, I can appreciate that manual mode in an AT brings the experience "closer" to a manual than merely sticking it in Drive (or Sport Drive).

One day, I am eager to test drive a MINI with a true clutchless manual, like VW's DSG system (which has been brought up in this thread at least a couple of times). That will be interesting. Not sure it will fully convert me, but I'm hopeful that one day BMW/MINI will replace the traditional fluid coupling torque converter automatics (i.e. slushboxes) with a modern design that does away with the torque converter completely.

 

Porsche finally replaced their tiptronic s/b with a double-clutch PDK 7-speed sequential auto with paddles on the 911, and it's getting rave reviews. C'mon RB admit it: y'd love to drive that thing!

Oh boy. I can hardly wait for the day when there's a factory JCW auto (it's coming) with something like the PDK, DSG, SMG, or whatever acronym, and more threads erupt on NAM comparing the two, all started by innocent noobs wanting our opinions.

Ho Ho, popcorn and beer for all!

 

I think the difference between these 2 is sarcasm which unfortunately cannot be transferred easily over the intrawebs. So I do think some people take some of the previous comments to heart and think that they are being made fun of, just my opinion. Therefore, there are more negative sounding posts which may also be made in jest but still cannot be perceived in that way and it snowballs from there.

As for me, I'm lazy, so I didn't get a MT for that main reason. My MINI is a daily driver and will probably see the track maybe once a year, if even that, so the AT is capable enough for those few times. If I were to track my car more it would absolutely have a MT.

 

Can you explain how you pay more attention while shifting and how an someone driving an AT pays less. Please use an everyday example we all can relate to. This is beyond belief.

So I'm not as observant driving an AT? Are AT drivers involved in more accidents? Let's pull some REAL data out....

 

The "different little yellow smiley guy inserts" come free with the automatic transmission...not available with manual.

 

dunno. some noise aboot how auto drivers are less tuned in to the road, or something like that...

hey maybe U can hit 2K on this thread.... or at least sixth gear

And I know this: I shift less anyway with my 09 than I did with my 05. All that nice available torque makes all the diff in the world.

 

 

The AT drivers tends to be the cellular phone yanker, the latte drinker, the newspaper/magazine reader behind the wheel. The right hand is free to do whatever it wants

When both hands and both feet are fully engaged in the business of driving, reaching out for that cell phone call, the doritos or the mascara tends to be a more challenging (and riskier) proposition.

 

When MINI fits these cars with a quality clutch that lasts at least 100K miles, then I'll come back to a manual. Unfortunately I don't see much evidence in MINI's part to crack the whip on LuK's door step and force them to up the quality of the clutch parts.

 

Not true - MT just means you have to hold your shoulder to your ear while doing all of that so that you can talk on the phone!

 

Despite my love to MT and dislike of ATs (while they satisfy somebody's needs they do not satisfy mine) - I'd eagerly buy DSG equipped car for street driving. No, not for autoX yet.

From my experience it still "thinks" after you ask one to shift, but you spend some time shifting the manual anyway. You just do it predictable in advance, well orgainzed and there's no delay in your mind. So same thing here - just do it earlier.

What I really liked and what made it different for me - when it actually shifts - it jumps directly from gear to gear with no intermediate "torque converter" stage until it locks, which you have with regular ATs. You clearly feel this and see watching you tachometer. Just like F1 tachometer while you are watching events.

I tried DSG at hwy 17 - just great. Good job to whoever designed this thing. And engine braking is also just like you drive manual.

What it really lacks - you can't place your hand at the shifter while keeping your eyes at the road and tell which gear you are in. You have to watch the display :(

Too bad I'm not VW fan.

 

First of all I did not read anyone saying they HATE people that drive a MT..really, and even if someone would I would only expect a 9 year old to belive it to be true and nothing more than banter.

The power of suggestion that that shifters hate MT will bring that mud to the top and people will jump on that bandwagon really fast. Like were saying something like what about disabled folks....thats just plain ridiculous.

OK in my posts I try to let people know when were in banter mode by the following:

Thought that was funny
What I have a small brain please explain some more
You have got to be kidding me right
Sneaky Bast@&d
Thats your girlfriend
I am really cool
Fight fight join in
Blah Blah Blah
WTF
Stick Shifter
AT driver

 

Perhaps hate was too strong of a word, but talking about it with an aggressive and derisive attitude is only going to tick people off unnecessarily. The problem with written communication like this is that sometimes, even when you think you're joking around, it can be easily misconstrued. Smileys don't always work to clear things up as to what was intended.

That's all I'm saying. Remember, I happen to have the same preferences you do (MTs rock!), but I'm just trying to suggest that a more... reasoned approach to making the point will achieve better results.

 

OK..no sense in dragging this down anymore....sorry, but I didn't see where there was a problem...thought the thread was funny and it seemed that most were having fun....I kinda have a tough skin so I am not bothered by someone saying my car is ugly or stick sucks because well, who cares ...no big deal..carry on.

 

I still refer an auto.....the only thing I can see as being an advantage of the stick is that your friends won't want to borrow your car since a lot of people can't drive a stick.

 

I bought an auto because my gf cant drive one, but she sure can manuever the stick

 

Ok, gonna have to black flag that one for a lap. If you are driving, she shouldn't be working the stick.

I can't even get my wife to pull my drink out of the cup holder.

 

Just a quick review of VAG's DSG...I have driven three Audi A3's with it, two first gen Audi TT 3.2's with it, an R32, and the latest version in a 2009 Audi TTS. While it does do away with the sluggishness of a torgue converter, even in "full manual" mode it will overrule your decisions if it thinks you're making a bad one (or just being lazy.) It will not let you decide on the upshift point if it thinks you're getting too close to redline, and it will start downshifting as you slow whether you bump the paddles or not. You cannot jump gears up or down a la a three pedal manual, such as a 2nd to 4th upshift, or 5th to 3rd downshift. My guess is that once the novelty wears off, most DSG drivers put it in D and drive. It then becomes, despite all its technology, just a quicker shifting automatic. I probably would have considered the TTS but VAG is weird about its US offerings. I think all the cars they sell here as DSG only can also be fitted with manuals in the rest of the world.

 

Bug Veyron has the same system, no manual available. I wonder if the average Veyron driver cares about the novelty wearing off as they're ticking 230+ mph on the track