R56 I think BMW should be worried... what do you think?
#51
05-05-2009, 04:19 PM
OVERDRIVE
When I think of Fiat I think of the 124 Spider and the (gulp) Super Brava, and I wish I could forget them (although the 124 was fun to drive when it ran in the early 70s). People only wanted to own them until they could pawn them off on somebody else. The 500 (turbo only in the US please, the 1.4 won't cut it even for the treehuggers) may sell a few, but my money's against it in the US based on what I've seen. I'm all for Mini competition but unless gas here hits $5-6/gal I think the Fiat will stay in Europe. A 2000 lb car just isn't heavy enough to make American drivers happy IMO.
#52
05-05-2009, 04:41 PM
6th Gear
#53
05-05-2009, 04:49 PM
#55
05-05-2009, 05:03 PM
#56
05-05-2009, 05:44 PM
Competition's good. Will keep MINI sharp. Lot of companies are lineing up to take a shot at this market niche.
No stoning here. Somebody's got to drive it. Keeps you smiling with a minimum of hassle have at it!
Gotta say though that anything that gets tainted by Chrysler isn't something I'm gonna line up for. Notice how MB has taken a quality tumble? That this man's opinion nothing more
Cheers
No stoning here. Somebody's got to drive it. Keeps you smiling with a minimum of hassle have at it!
Gotta say though that anything that gets tainted by Chrysler isn't something I'm gonna line up for. Notice how MB has taken a quality tumble? That this man's opinion nothing more
Cheers
#57
05-05-2009, 06:09 PM
If the much discussed Fiat-Chrysler alliance ever comes to fruition, they will almost certainly bring this to North America:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121677
Direct competition for the MINI, for sure. A very similar "vibe" to the MINI as well - trendy retro looks, a modern interpretation of a very well-loved and fondly-remembered original small car creating a great deal of "buzz" in Europe. I think it could be a huge hit here in N.A. if the sales/marketing were handled properly, as BMW did with the re-born MINI in 2001.
The one downside for this new Fiat is the appalling reliability and rust issues of past Fiat cars here in North America. Anyone of a certain age (like me) will shudder at the mere thought of having a Fiat taking up space in their driveway or garage (which is where they spent most of their time since they were seldom running long enough to be seen on the streets.).
But I'm guessing that most (younger) people in the market for a car such as a MINI or this Fiat have no memory of those bad old days. They are looking for a cute, fun small car with a bit of a trendy cachet that will impress their friends make them feel and look cool.
I can see this Fiat taking a good run at the MINI atop the small car heap. Anyone agree/disagree? Has anybody seen or driven on of these?
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121677
Direct competition for the MINI, for sure. A very similar "vibe" to the MINI as well - trendy retro looks, a modern interpretation of a very well-loved and fondly-remembered original small car creating a great deal of "buzz" in Europe. I think it could be a huge hit here in N.A. if the sales/marketing were handled properly, as BMW did with the re-born MINI in 2001.
The one downside for this new Fiat is the appalling reliability and rust issues of past Fiat cars here in North America. Anyone of a certain age (like me) will shudder at the mere thought of having a Fiat taking up space in their driveway or garage (which is where they spent most of their time since they were seldom running long enough to be seen on the streets.).
But I'm guessing that most (younger) people in the market for a car such as a MINI or this Fiat have no memory of those bad old days. They are looking for a cute, fun small car with a bit of a trendy cachet that will impress their friends make them feel and look cool.
I can see this Fiat taking a good run at the MINI atop the small car heap. Anyone agree/disagree? Has anybody seen or driven on of these?
#58
05-05-2009, 06:36 PM
4th Gear
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Corona De Tucson,AZ
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#59
05-05-2009, 07:08 PM
#60
05-05-2009, 07:11 PM
6th Gear
Originally Posted by KrautHammer 
Barking up the wrong tree guys.
The Alfa Mito is the car to look for and one that I will gladly trade the Mini for.
Sacrilege, stone me now.
Barking up the wrong tree guys.
The Alfa Mito is the car to look for and one that I will gladly trade the Mini for.
Sacrilege, stone me now.
You know what Jeremy Clarkson says about Alfas right?
"You cannot be a true petrol head until you've owned one but it's like having great sex, that leaves you with an embarrassing itch."
I'm not sure that's a positive advertisement...
But I promise you that if the Mito came over here... I'd at least test drive one.
"You cannot be a true petrol head until you've owned one but it's like having great sex, that leaves you with an embarrassing itch."
I'm not sure that's a positive advertisement...
But I promise you that if the Mito came over here... I'd at least test drive one.
To be fair, it was 7 years old, and had 70K miles on it when I got it. That was far beyond the average life for such a car, in those days. The British sports cars didn't hold up any better.
Anyway, the Alfa had a certain feel to it that was very special. Haven't driven a car since that had as refined a feel to the gear shifting. Had a great deal of fun with it in the Santa Monica Mts. above Malibu.
If Alfas were available here, I'd be very tempted, but reliability might be a deal killer. I've gotten very used to driving a reliable car with an Acura. So far, the MINI has been good as well.
#61
05-05-2009, 07:16 PM
#62
05-05-2009, 07:20 PM
5th Gear
I know that I was so disappointed when I got into my new 2003 Mercedes Benz the second day I owned it, put it in reverse, and the shifter popped out of the console into my hands. MB was total crap and I sold it after 8 months and 8 times in the shop. I shudder to think what will happen when you combine MOPAR and Fiat's vaunted build quality together.
#63
05-05-2009, 07:33 PM
Good point.....those cars were from a bygone era. I would imagine Fiat is functioning up to far more modern standards these days.
Whodathunk it....MINIs are absolutely luxurious compared to its predecessor. I would assume Fiat has sought to update the 500 in a similar fashion. It may be new to us, but it's been out for almost two years!
I think you're right...I will be eager to go see one out of respect for another Stephenson-designed, updated automotive icon.
Whodathunk it....MINIs are absolutely luxurious compared to its predecessor. I would assume Fiat has sought to update the 500 in a similar fashion. It may be new to us, but it's been out for almost two years!
I think you're right...I will be eager to go see one out of respect for another Stephenson-designed, updated automotive icon.
#64
05-05-2009, 08:44 PM
Unless Fiat wants to rerelease a modern Fiat 500 Mini has little worry about. Yes the cars are smallish but they really aren't the Mini competitors but that is my American opinion cause they don't sell very many if any Fiats in the States. Ah scratch that I just looked into it further they make Ducati powered 500s now labeled as 999Rs. Crap maybe Mini does have to worry but they plan on releasing them soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_500
#65
05-05-2009, 08:49 PM
5th Gear
#66
05-05-2009, 09:09 PM
I dont think anyone has brought up the real elephant in the room here. Before all this recent stuff got thrown down rumor had it that BMW was already working with Fiat for the next redesign of the MINI. Moving from their current just sharing engines to something a little bigger but with fiat. Give the current situation hopefully this falls apart, but Ive been terribly concerned since I heard that.
The 500 could venture into some of the MINI market share but it has some major things going against it:
1. MINIs are sold at BMW dealerships, and on top of that typically the ones with better customer service. Thats a big challenge using a Crystler dealer network. A since Korean cars will always be cheaper this IS important.
2. 500 is still really a pretender. They may have models with plenty of grunt that might even beat the MINI on a track, but its still the Panda platform. It does not use an independent rear suspension and wont have that go kart feel we all love.
The 500 could venture into some of the MINI market share but it has some major things going against it:
1. MINIs are sold at BMW dealerships, and on top of that typically the ones with better customer service. Thats a big challenge using a Crystler dealer network. A since Korean cars will always be cheaper this IS important.
2. 500 is still really a pretender. They may have models with plenty of grunt that might even beat the MINI on a track, but its still the Panda platform. It does not use an independent rear suspension and wont have that go kart feel we all love.
#67
05-05-2009, 11:12 PM
3rd Gear
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: mty, Mexico
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#68
05-06-2009, 12:32 AM
#69
05-06-2009, 12:39 AM
6th Gear
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
how can you think that the fiat will compete with the mini? they arent even in the same class. The fiat is a retro economy micro car. It seems to be re-introduced as such. The mini on the other hand had legendary performance for a micro car and was re-introduced with even more performance. I dont think you'll see to many fiats head to head with a mini anytime soon on autox.
I did get to see one of the fiat 500's a few weeks ago at the pavilions and I will say that fiat did a great job keeping with the original. It is a cool little car.
I did get to see one of the fiat 500's a few weeks ago at the pavilions and I will say that fiat did a great job keeping with the original. It is a cool little car.
#71
05-06-2009, 04:48 AM
The US market for 'quirky' small cars is already small, particularly those that command a premium (as the Fiat 500 almost certainly will). MINI benefits from an association with BMW's perceived 'luxury' status. Fiat will be associated with a bankrupt Chrysler (a marque with its own reliability problems). Time will tell, but again... I don't believe BMW AG is too worried.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/c...iable-product/
#73
05-06-2009, 05:46 AM
Could not agree more. I think MINI should be concerned on the value proposition. I will keep my MINI for a long time, but when the SC goes some day, (since it can't be maintained) will I buy another MINI in 2013? Not likely. Would I look at a Fiat or Alfa, you bet. I like driving my MINI, I'm less enamored with the rest of the BMW/MINI experience. Michael
Yes, the Mini is now an iconic vehicle. But that status was achieved mostly outside of the US. Original BMC Minis were quite rare in the U.S., they were only imported for about 5 or 6 years, if memory serves. Less than 10,000 sold, total, in the US. Most people in the States never saw one on the road "back in the day". MINI's have become an icon in the U.S. since their re-introduction by BMW. For most people there was little consciousness of them before that.
They were much more popular in Canada where they had a long run. And of course they were wildly successful in Europe and especially Britain.
What's my point? Well the original Fiat 500 was never sold in the U.S. Very few came to Canada. Yet they were extremely popular in Europe and especially, of course, in Italy. The Abarth versions were similar in vibe to the Coopers and gave a halo-effect to the whole model range. They really transcended their humble origins in the minds of the public, just like the original Mini.
Right now most people in North America have little (no) recognition or memory of the Fiat 500 or Abarth brands, just like the Mini and Cooper names in the late '90s before BMW re-introduced those names to the U.S. in 2001. Think back to 1998, let's say. How many of you then would have thought you would ever buy a Mini? Most would have said "a what??" or "you mean that boxy little English piece of **** they used to sell here 30 years ago? Why would I want one of those?" Kinda like the opinions most now have re: Fiat and the new 500.
I just think that BMW had better be on their game in the next few years or this little Fiat could take a huge bite out of MINI sales and popularity, especially (as I said before) with younger buyers who don't now associate the Fiat name with the word "crap".
__________________________________________________
They were much more popular in Canada where they had a long run. And of course they were wildly successful in Europe and especially Britain.
What's my point? Well the original Fiat 500 was never sold in the U.S. Very few came to Canada. Yet they were extremely popular in Europe and especially, of course, in Italy. The Abarth versions were similar in vibe to the Coopers and gave a halo-effect to the whole model range. They really transcended their humble origins in the minds of the public, just like the original Mini.
Right now most people in North America have little (no) recognition or memory of the Fiat 500 or Abarth brands, just like the Mini and Cooper names in the late '90s before BMW re-introduced those names to the U.S. in 2001. Think back to 1998, let's say. How many of you then would have thought you would ever buy a Mini? Most would have said "a what??" or "you mean that boxy little English piece of **** they used to sell here 30 years ago? Why would I want one of those?" Kinda like the opinions most now have re: Fiat and the new 500.
I just think that BMW had better be on their game in the next few years or this little Fiat could take a huge bite out of MINI sales and popularity, especially (as I said before) with younger buyers who don't now associate the Fiat name with the word "crap".
__________________________________________________
#75
05-06-2009, 07:13 AM
6th Gear
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Coralville, Iowa
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't hear people saying my MINI is sexy. They say "cute." Almost invariably, it's "cute," if they say anything at all.
To me MINI is cute in a confident, hey-baby-let's-motor, kind of way.
The Fiat is cute, but in a cuddly, I-need-a-friend-who-will-take-care-of-me kind of way.
Strange how we anthropomorphize our cars.
Sorry, Lolly, I didn't mean to suggest that you're just a car