Good point. There are definitely some ****** in BMW/MINIs armor...if somebody decides how to exploit these and come up with something better in regards to the whole ownership experience, they might actually give MINI a run for their money.

 

I think... it really depends on the color of your car, weather people will label it as cute, or sexy. So while your experience is definitely not unique, mine has been the complete opposite.

I've never heard anyone tell me that my MINI was cute. I've heard people say that they've never seen a car that suits me more. They've said that it was really slick, or pretty, or sexy. I think the brighter colors do tend to look more cute, whereas the darker colors tend to ooze sex appeal and style. This is true of most cars. I don't actually find red cars or yellow cars to be sexy, but the blacks silvers and grays and to some extent the greens.... Oh yeah! Does a red bimmer seriously turn your head because you think its cool, or just because it's red? Now think about how you feel when you see a freshly detailed black m3...

Totally different, right?

Colors evoke very stroke emotions in people, so when people see colors they react in a variety of ways. And as with everything, your mileage with this may vary.

I should also add that 'vettes are excluded from this entirely as being in a class of their own. 'vettes just look ridiculous in any other colors besides red, white and yellow. The silver 'vettes don't even look like a 'vette. Pretty yes, but they lack that certain... loud, obnoxious nature that defines a 'vette as being an American icon.

 

I don't think that every new/cute/trendy/retro car is competition for the MINI. I certainly don't think that car will be. I doubt the new Fiat will be an enthousiasts car.

Beige and cream interior console? No thank you!

 

There's your answer I think. No way Fiat's gonna try the US market with that car. Bring back the Super Brava ! I sold Toyotas in 1974 in Scottsdale, AZ soon after they started the Corolla and a fat guy was considering it and that POS Fiat sedan. He couldn't really fit behind the wheel of the Toyo. He says "I think there are a lot more fat Italians than fat Japanese"

 

A new dodge neon will go on sale within 18 months shareing platforms and engines.
www.autocar.co.uk

 

I just wish the american auto makers filed BK and went away already. They make unapealing, bland cars. And the quality is definately questionable. There great for rental fleets and thats about it.

 

What article?

 

Good read here:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...seesse/239009/

... and another one:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg..._cooper_s.html

It's the Abarth SS 1.4 turbo version.

Sounds like some pretty stiff competition to me. Smaller, less powerful, but lighter and just as fast as a Cooper S. A little less refined maybe, but that can be fun too!

I rather like the taller stubby looks of this thing, too. Great looking dash & interior.


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unappealing:



bland:




great for rental fleets:




What other companies from what other country could possibly have produced machines like these?

The automotive world would be (will be??) a poorer place without these companies. Don't be so quick to write them off.

Rant concluded.



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You picked three American made "exotics" (for lack of a better word here).
What about the Impala, malibu, sebring, 300, G3,G6, etc. etc.
all the "average consumers" income level.
And I am not quick to write them off. It's been slowly building up to this for years. the late 80's was the start of the decline for me. the cars got in my opinion Butt **** Ugly!

 

Just pointing out some of the brighter moments in a gloomy time for the domestic automakers. Your post seemed far too general and dismissive, IMHO. Too easy to look at only the low points and forget about the brilliant highs that all these companies have had in the recent and distant past.

Agree with that!!

The decline really picked up speed around the time that they all became enamored of the giant pickups/SUV's that have been their stock in trade for many years. Low tech, cheap to build, big profit, take-the-money-and-run with no re-investment. Who cares about making good cars when you can sell trainloads of low-tech pickups and their bastard cousin SUV's stuffed full of gadgets and leather for 40 - 50,000 bucks? Bad, short-sighted way to run a business.

Well, it's finally caught up to them in a big way! Sad, really.

Rant II concluded.

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I couldnt agree more. the other part to mention is those giant suv's and pick ups are what everyone wanted. (well not us mini folks).
I think the big three got to caught up chasing the money and didnt put it back into r/d towards alternative vehicles. then again a lot of people didn't see this economy falling as hard as it did.

 

Don't forget that every car company has lost sales, at just about the same percentage. It's not like the domestics were the only companies to lose sales. GM was until very recently the best selling car company around, so it's not like nobody was buying their vehicles. Businesses provide what the customers want, so that's why they built trucks. It's not like they were holding a gun to people's heads, forcing them to buy. Not making excuses for the "Big Three" but everyone seems to assume that they're failing because no one is buying their cars. Nobody is buying ANYBODY'S cars.
<RANT> concluded

 

Ford showed a profit last year, and took no bailout money from me while doing it.
Part of GM being the biggest was because of there military accounts.

 

GM sell cars and makes $$$$$$$$
GM gives $$$$$ to stock holders
GM borrows $$$$ from banks etc. and pays interest on loans
to try and run the company.
I'm using GM as an example but all of these companys do the same stupid way of running their business.
Greedy shareholders of all of these companys are to blame. You can't run a business on borrowed $$$$
Big shots paying theirselves millions of dollars are also to blame.
Investment companys and insurance companys that buy a lot of stock and then steal the $$$$ for high paybacks and bonases are also included in the problems the world economy is now seeing.
It is not only car companys that are hurting but food processors and businesses worldwide.
It all comes down to a thing called "THE ME SOCIATY" GREED,GREED< ,GREED
Ronnie948

 

Meh... I don't like the look if it. It looks cheap, my MINI doesn't look cheap. It reminds me of a smart car on steroids actually. However, if the pricing is right, I think it will do well as a commuter car, so I'm glad it's coming over here.

 

Looks like a MINI-wanna-be

 

Well, the first Fiat 500s showed up in '57 and the Mini two years later in '59...I'd say the Fiat 500 has iconic status all it's own. And since, decades later, the new 500 and the new MINI were designed by the same person, yes, there are some commonalities looks-wise, especially with earlier '02-'04 Coopers.

 

+1 !!

Add to those points the fact that both Mini and Fiat have stellar racing histories. Mini's rallying exploits in the '60's are the stuff of legend (when rally victories made headlines and were almost on par with Formula 1 successes in terms of prestige); and Fiat in the guise of Abarth 600, 850, etc. won 7 (I think) European manufacturers championships in a row. Both Mini and Fiat took on much larger and more powerful machines all over Europe and, improbably, beat all comers.

To view this Fiat as just another cheap commuter car like so many others is to ignore all the history and regard that it still has all these years after the original went out of production. Still a lot of good-will towards it, and that is something that a manufacturer can't buy.

An interesting comparison for sure. Very different cars but many similarities, too. I personally hope this new Fiat makes it to North America - - the competition with MINI should be interesting. Assuming, of course, that Fiat/Chrysler (or whoever sells it) can handle the marketing and sales in the same (brilliant) way BMW did with the MINI in 2001, connecting the past successes/reputation to the present model.



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Very, very true. Fingers crossed...

 

gokartride and 33EJB ...very well said and thanks for putting some perspective on this topic

 

Something to keep in mind is the new 500 is basically a Fiat Panda with a vintage body. The Panda is Fiat's econo-box car and while dropping a nice engine into it may make it fast, it no-one seemd to think it will handle like the MINI. Even Clarksonius admitted that while he prefers the 500's body styling over the MINI, the MINI drives better.

Wow, I just looked up the Fiat UK website (because the Fiat Int'l site is not responding tonight). The 500 with the biggest engine they offer (1.4 liter) has 100 BHP and tops at 113 mph. The diesel version has 60 BHP and tops at 90 mph. Given that the 500 has the same indifferent suspension as the Panda and a stated 0 to 60 of 10.5 seconds, I'd call this car cute, but boring. It is cheaper, er less expensive, than the MINI; $15,000 MSRP when converted from pounds sterling. They do get great milage, upwards of 55-65 mpg for the diesel, 44-54 mpg for the 1.4L gas.

If you ask me, not only does the 500 look retro, it also performs retro!

My only exposure to a Fiat was a 124 my family owned in the early 1970's. Great looking car, both inside and out, but mechanically it was a wreck and the body started rusting within 3 years; AND we lived in San Diego which does not have a climate known to cause car corrosion problems.

 

I doubt it'll handle like a MINI, and that's what the review a few posts back said. However starting from a Panda platform isn't recipe for disaster, the Lancia I used to drive was based on the Panda platform, I rather liked that one.

 

Me, too.

 

Surfblue says: I doubt that the boys and girls at FIX IT AGAIN TONY are going to give you any better "whole ownership experience"; and it WON'T handle like the Mini.