I understand your thinking...I really do...but you are sucking in a lot of hot air from the top of the engine right across the turbo, the hot exhaust to the back of the engine with a open air filter. Also a butt dyno means nothing.

 

Regardless of whether Cold Air Intake should be changed to Open Air Intake or not, 2 very imporant positive things occur when you open up the restrictive air intake housing on our stock MCS's.

1) Gas mileage WILL improve quite considerably. (I am seeing an average of 3 MPG improvement).
2) Performance WILL increase. Butt Dyno and Real Dyno (look at the stats ..there are plenty out there and on this site). It's common sense that getting more air into an engine gets better performance.

 

Fair enough. I don't have Dyno data, so I can't argue you dismissing my observation.

Seeing that don't put stock in subjective claims, please share with us the empirical data you used to support your claim about how hot the air is entering the ALTA CAI. I would like to know what that is and what the temperature is with the stock air box. Once you demonstrate how much greater it is, I may reconsider using mine.

 

OK.....have seen the pros of the Alta set up...the JCW is tres expensive....Anyone, know anything about K&N's CAI?????

 

Actually right here on NAM a member posted his results of temp outside and inside a intake. Air temp outside the box was higher than inside. See the search function to find your data!

 

We're not talking about the airbox. We're talking abut the ALTA. Your claim is that the ALTA doesn't get cold air. Do you have data for that or not? Using data for the stock airbox isn't valid, since that is gone when the ALTA CAI is installed. I haven't seen ALTA air temp measurements on NAM, so please point me to it with a link. Thanks.

 

It's not for just the stock air box...any air going towards the back of the engine will be hot. Does not matter if the air box is a open filter or closed box the air in the engine compartment is hot...simple as that. So you do not think the ar in th engine compartment is not hot? I would rather not suck in hot engine air from the top of the engine. I truely do not belive just a open filter intake will make a power difference you can feel. The more air you do get into the engine the more fuel you need to add to keep the ratio correct and you need to exhaust this air quickly too. So everything works as a system...intake, throttle body, valves, cam, exhaust and the correct ECU program...for some power change that is noticable you need to do everything, not just some foam open air intake.

The DDM Race intake actually uses the hood scoop and shields somewhat from the hot engine air, also M7 has a system like this. This combined with a heat sheild over the turbo would be your best bet..better than just a open filter in the rear of the engine compartment.

BTW, your race photo's on your site are seriously nice! I take photo's too at Sebring each year and enjoy photography as a small hobby of mine. I also run sebring with various clubs (not in my Mini) each month and that is a big hobby of mine.

 

I'm glad you like the pictures. We've been going to Sebring every year starting in 2007. We're already booked for 2010. I need to get a bunch of new pictures posted. This coming week we're off to Road America for the Brian Redman historics.

Anyway, going back to the intake. I did feel a difference after installing it (along with the turbo inlet hose). The car is noticeably more responsive. I know that in how I use the sport button. Before it was on all the time. After, I don't feel the need to have it for street driving as much. I did a track weekend last month and the car performed extremely well (although I ended up chunking my front right tire). There's no point me arguing further except to say without hard data you're making assumptions of fact. I don't accept them without data any more than you except my butt dyno claim.

I don't get using a turbo heat shield. Where does the heat go? Because if it isn't dissipating heat from the turbo into the engine bay, it has to dissipate it somewhere. Surely, it doesn't just blanket the turbo and keep it hot. That would make even less sense than the argument against the intake.

 

you guys are all missing the point, what does it prove if hot air is getting sucked in or not (which I don't believe it is). MOST IMPORTANT...there is a decent performance increase and pretty serious fuel mileage increase.

 

I have not seen any improvement in gas mileage with mine, not even 1 MPG.

 

where do you notice the most increase in MPG, city or highway? i have a 100 mile commute to work, mostly on highway and wonder if this would be worth it just for the MPG.

 

How do you get more MPG from increase air intake? Think about it....more air into the engine increases the ECU to give more fuel to balance out the air/fuel ratio. To get more power from an engine it take more fuel...which take more air into and out of the engine.

 

An Intake Air Temperature reading is available through the OBDII. I'm not sure exactly where it is measured, but it might be useful for someone with a ScanGaugeII to see how it reads with the Alta vs. stock. I could get some readings of increase over ambient on a 2007 MCS next time I go out.

 

I have no test data and have not seen any with these heat shields but the M7 heat shield does seem to make sense with their angel gel as it is suppose to keep the heat from raising so much to warp the hood scoop. So I would think it would deflect some heat raising above the engine...maybe at speed the heat would be drawn out under the car...not sure but probably wishful thinking on my part.

I would be interested in seeing what the Mini Challange and the Mini Koni cars do for an intake and how they manage heat under the hood. I see a Mini running in the Koni series but have never seen any good pictures of this car, have you?

 

So those turbo shields are like a thermal blanket to keep the turbo nice and toasty hot so it can heat up the intake air way beyond normal.

 

from the challenge pictures I've seen it appears like the normal intake.

 

I thought the Challenge cars get what the factory JCWs get (or rather, the factory JCWs get the Challenge engine).

The 3 Koni cars are R53. The team posts periodically in the racing forums of NAM. Visit there and you can ask what they do.

 

Not sure whether you guys are interested, or not, but with an ambient temp around 78F, the intake temp was running around 10F above ambient. This was while cruising Carmel Valley Road at around 55 mph. It varied a few degrees when climing a grade.

 

I believe our engines run more efficiently with more air getting in (when we get rid of the stock air box). My gas mileage did go up, I drive mostly freeway, and am seeing about 3mpg increase on average. I average 36.5 MPG.

Do a Google search you'll find many examples of CAI's improving gas mileage on a variety of car types. Here is one from eHow.com. I found some good stuff on Wikipedia as well.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4898459_impr...ize-truck.html

 

Robin,

Just to give you a point to compare, with my JCW stage 1 intake (before intercooler), I was running 3-9 degrees above ambient. If I hit the gas, it goes up to 6-8 degress above ambient. Average I would say is 5-6 degrees.

With the intercooler, I am running 1-5 degrees above ambient. Average is now 2-3 degrees.

Heat soak is very evident when I stop at a light. The temps can go up to 25 degrees above ambient after a few minutes.

I am at or near sea level.

 

I'm in the middle of my second road trip with the CAI installed. In addition to my daily driving where I have gotten 0 mpg improvement over not having the CAI, I get just about 0 mpg improvement on longer highway trips as well.

 

Your pictures of Sebring March 2008 are absolutely fantastic. I've never seen such excellent photography taken at a track.

 

Thanks a lot. I'm glad you enjoyed them. I'm at Road America now for the Brian Redman historic races. I'm hoping to get some more good photos, although we've been having a bit of rain.

 

I have a serious, yet a stupid question....I was reading the instructions for the ALTA intake install,...it says at the end to remove the scoop to make it functional for air purposes and such..does that mean that it will not have any protection for water or whatnot? what if it rains hard and water gets inside? won't that damage the engine? is the intake for racing purposes only so you would not be able to use it in the streets?

any info would be highly appreciated it

thanks

 

You're over-analyzing it. It will be just fine. All you're doing is removing the black plastic that blocks intake. I have not had any problem with rain or debris. Hell, when I wash the car with my spray hose I pop the bonnet and wash the engine too.