R56 Consumer Reports: MINI Reliability Declines
#1
#5
#6
I don't think anyone needs to take these with a grain of salt. Their ratings are based on questionnaires completed by owners of MINIs who subscribe to the magazine (I've filled them out for years on every car I've owned). They don't report results on a make or model unless they have a statistically significant sample size.
What we're seeing is the result of the many MINI owners who have had problems with dipping windows, cold start rattle, warped hood scoops, fuel pump problems, etc., etc. What we see on this forum is an unscientific sample. What Consumer Reports publishes is the same information, except that it has been quantified in a standardized methodology.
I, for one, am not at all surprised to see MINI's rating fall the farthest of any manufacturer. When I bought (about a year ago), all the reports as to reliability were glowing. Now the problems are beginning to surface, with some being recurring problems in the same vehicle.
In all fairness, there is no attempt by Consumer Reports to give weight to the seriousness of any given problem. But this is the same across all makes and models. All things being equal, I'd rather own a car with fewer, rather than more, reported problems.
What we're seeing is the result of the many MINI owners who have had problems with dipping windows, cold start rattle, warped hood scoops, fuel pump problems, etc., etc. What we see on this forum is an unscientific sample. What Consumer Reports publishes is the same information, except that it has been quantified in a standardized methodology.
I, for one, am not at all surprised to see MINI's rating fall the farthest of any manufacturer. When I bought (about a year ago), all the reports as to reliability were glowing. Now the problems are beginning to surface, with some being recurring problems in the same vehicle.
In all fairness, there is no attempt by Consumer Reports to give weight to the seriousness of any given problem. But this is the same across all makes and models. All things being equal, I'd rather own a car with fewer, rather than more, reported problems.
#7
Because the mechanical differences between any of MINI's models is negligible when compared to most car brands. Look at Ford with a F-250 4WD and Fusion. What parts (other that brand emblem) do you suppose they have in common?
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#9
#10
Yes but that still doesn't explain why the Justa version of the same car is the best while the turbo car is the worst - both are pretty much identical except for the motors, and with the exception of the cold start noise, all the problems cited above should be on both vehicles as they are the same subsystems.
#11
Yes but that still doesn't explain why the Justa version of the same car is the best while the turbo car is the worst - both are pretty much identical except for the motors, and with the exception of the cold start noise, all the problems cited above should be on both vehicles as they are the same subsystems.
#12
#13
#14
Some funny quotes about statistics
Looked at the original post and thought of these:
Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures. Evan Essar
I can prove anything by statistics except the truth. George Canning
1) Numbers are tools, not rules. 2) Numbers are symbols for things; the number and the thing are not the same. 3) Skill in manipulating numbers is a talent, not evidence of divine guidance. 4) Like other occult techniques of divination, the statistical method has a private jargon deliberately contrived to obscure its methods from nonpractitioners. 5) The product of an arithmetical computation is the answer to an equation; it is not the solution to a problem. 6) Arithmetical proofs of theorems that do not have arithmetical bases prove nothing. Ashley-Perry Statistical Axioms
Just reading that "Predicted Reliability" paragraph which attempts to explain where the numbers came from makes me not trust it.
Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures. Evan Essar
I can prove anything by statistics except the truth. George Canning
1) Numbers are tools, not rules. 2) Numbers are symbols for things; the number and the thing are not the same. 3) Skill in manipulating numbers is a talent, not evidence of divine guidance. 4) Like other occult techniques of divination, the statistical method has a private jargon deliberately contrived to obscure its methods from nonpractitioners. 5) The product of an arithmetical computation is the answer to an equation; it is not the solution to a problem. 6) Arithmetical proofs of theorems that do not have arithmetical bases prove nothing. Ashley-Perry Statistical Axioms
Just reading that "Predicted Reliability" paragraph which attempts to explain where the numbers came from makes me not trust it.
#15
Well, except the stupid drip rails... they might as well not exist. I get tired of opening the door so the beaded water on the roof can roll into the driver seat. That's really my only complaint so far.
#17
Looked at the original post and thought of these:
Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures. Evan Essar
I can prove anything by statistics except the truth. George Canning
1) Numbers are tools, not rules. 2) Numbers are symbols for things; the number and the thing are not the same. 3) Skill in manipulating numbers is a talent, not evidence of divine guidance. 4) Like other occult techniques of divination, the statistical method has a private jargon deliberately contrived to obscure its methods from nonpractitioners. 5) The product of an arithmetical computation is the answer to an equation; it is not the solution to a problem. 6) Arithmetical proofs of theorems that do not have arithmetical bases prove nothing. Ashley-Perry Statistical Axioms
Just reading that "Predicted Reliability" paragraph which attempts to explain where the numbers came from makes me not trust it.
Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures. Evan Essar
I can prove anything by statistics except the truth. George Canning
1) Numbers are tools, not rules. 2) Numbers are symbols for things; the number and the thing are not the same. 3) Skill in manipulating numbers is a talent, not evidence of divine guidance. 4) Like other occult techniques of divination, the statistical method has a private jargon deliberately contrived to obscure its methods from nonpractitioners. 5) The product of an arithmetical computation is the answer to an equation; it is not the solution to a problem. 6) Arithmetical proofs of theorems that do not have arithmetical bases prove nothing. Ashley-Perry Statistical Axioms
Just reading that "Predicted Reliability" paragraph which attempts to explain where the numbers came from makes me not trust it.
#19
HP fuel pump I believe. Mine blew out in 700 miles. Still love my MINI but far from the confidence inspiring build of my Japanese build cars (but far better than Pentastar junk).
#20
Does the fuel pump issue just affect the S, or both?
I guess German engineering isn't quite what it used to be. Or, should I say it isn't what I once thought it to be.
#21
I don't understand why the HPFP is such a problem. On the BMW N54 engine (twin turbo used in many applications, including the 335i), the HPFPs are still failing in alarming numbers, a good 3 years after the release of the motor. WTH?? Stories from people going through 2-3-4 of them aren't uncommon. Something's rotten in Denmark - the things need to be redesigned and/or sourced from a different vendor.
#22
I find it odd many of the posters in the past would say "The MINI is reliable, its on CR recommended list!" But once it drops in the rankings everyone says that they don't mean anything.
If you look at the chart it gives you a good overview of reliable brands vs unreliable ones. Toyota, Honda near the top, Dodge and some Euros near the bottom. Nothing too surprising. Its what people experience in the real world, for the most part. Of course there are exceptions. But if you look at the chart in a general sense, I think its not too far off target. Just my opinion...
FWIW, I think most cars nowadays are pretty reliable that I wouldn't have a problem buying a car at the bottom of the list. Thats what a warranty is for. I love my MINI and it has not given me a problem yet!
#23
Some of this I think can be attributed to complexity. Having owned Hondas for years (and still have 2) I can say that they usually won't bring a technology into their lineup until it is well proven and generally stay a step or two behind the Germans in 'high tech'. They didn't add ABS right away, my 99 CRV without it. They didn't add DSC right away, my 04 accord without it. They put out models with technologies they know are tried and proven. The Germans on the other hand have models that are always technologically a alittle out front of everyone, hence, some explaination of the higher failure rates.
In general car reliability is a far cry and much improved on all models. If you want the most reliable Mini, get a justa mini (clubman, cooper), stay away from high tech electronics, and enjoy your ride.
I do agree with the statement on vendors. A lot of mini's problems seem less to do with the design of the car and more to do with terrible subcontractor quality control. It is very easy to dictate quality assurance provisions in a contract, so the blame rests solely on Mini's shoulders for that problem.
Last edited by glangford; 10-28-2009 at 05:09 AM.
#24
The chart doesn't scare me at all. The is only a small difference between the worst and best MINI and yet the worst is dead middle "average" reliability with the best just over average. It's also misleading saying that it dropped 14 places from last year. Did MINI's reliability drop from last year of did other cars reliability just increase while MINI stayed the same.
#25