I understand and agree HOWEVER demand has NOT increased. We as a nation in our economy have cut back. We drive more efficient cars, we've cut back our driving, the demand has gone DOWN, not up.


Like I said above... we are... perhaps a little slower than the rest of the world but we are. Our cars have become more efficient, high prices have decreased driving, SUV sales have decreased. Because we've been so spoiled, we have been slow to adapt however, we have the technology and resources to keep gas prices at a normal level.

I say again that though gas prices are low in comparison to other countries, we're still paying too much.

 

I think it's less about whether demand in the US has increased or decreased, and more about the fact that China has dramatically increased it's use of oil over the last decade or so, and driven demand worldwide up.

 

Yes, China, and possibly India, will be major factors in future oil prices. Remember, gas is not the only use for oil. It is also used to heat homes, make plastics, etc.

Americans still waste a lot. Do you get new bags every time you go to the grocery store? Or, do you take canvas bags with you?

While oil may buy things like Rolls Royces in Saudi Arabia, in some countries it helps fund terrorism.

 

Not right now. Demand is low, stockpiles are high. What's driving oil prices back upward is speculators, again.. just like when we hit $4+. It's a joke.

 

Lets try to keep this thread on topic folks.

 

So we should discuss the fuel capacity of a Mini Cooper?

Hmm... OK, I think that topic has been killed!

 

The demand for oil in America has been declining for around 2yrs now. Everyone says we are gluttons and we have been. The truth is that people are being more conservative. There are less gas guzzlers. The technology is getting better.

The problem is that the price is set by the WORLD market. China is the new glutton. And they are expanding quickly. Add to that India, Brazil, and other emerging markets and the price goes up for everyone.

 

Oil futures trade in units of 1000 barrels, which is 42,000 gallons. Maybe the NyMEX will get us a group buy option?

 

Ya'll a bunch of naive little people, aren't you?

Supply and demand, China, blah, blah, blah.... that is the biggest crap I've ever heard.

It has NOTHING to do with supply and demand, it has to do with greed.

Want some examples?

Gas 2 weeks ago was 2.19 in SC, now it's 2.57

Gas in NC was 2.34 two weeks ago, now it's 2.65

Are you telling me that China suddenly used up so much gas that it drove the prices up? Yeah, right.

How about this? Last year when a hurricane went through FL and TX, gas prices IMMEDIATELY (THE SAME NIGHT) went up over 2 dollars per gallon. The gas in the tanks in the grounds here in NC were already in here, why exactly would they raise the prices based on what they've already paid for?

I'll tell you... GREED.

Gas prices have gone up for the last two weeks, you want to know why? Because Thanksgiving and Xmas will be here and with the economy the way it is, more people will be driving and can't afford to drive. Guess what, let's raise prices.

Large increases in demand will obviously raise prices.... however, you can't honestly tell me that the demand increased so much in the last two weeks that the prices have risen 40-50 cents per gallon. BULLSHIET!

It's greed, nothing more, nothing less.

The US along with the rest of the world has significantly lowered their usage by cutting back, increasing technology and buying more efficient and smaller cars but gas prices continually rise.

It's a load of crap.

Mark

 

You can use google pretty easily to find out that supply and demand includes many factors.

The supply is effected by the production/refinement of gasoline as much as the price of crude. Maybe the refineries are switching over to Winter blends? That could drive the price up in NC and SC where Winter blends arent required. Maybe some of the crude and refining capabilities are being used to make home heating oil for Winter. That too would negatively effect supply. And maybe all the easy crude has already been pumped out of the ground. Maybe the oil drilled tomorrow will cost 2-3 times what it costs today to get out of the ground.

As far as demand you are right and wrong. It is true that many countries are getting better at conserving and are using less. The largest emerging markets, China and India, are not though.

A cursory search will also show that "big oil" profits are nearly half what they were when prices spiked last year. It is not greed. While it is true that they have had record profits in the recent past, their profit margin is the same percentage. Its just that they sold more than ever.

 

I know supply and demand dictate prices on different commodities.... I'm just making the point that it's amazing how fast prices change at the drop of a whim. Hurricane comes and prices rise instantly.

If a hurricane caused a plant to shut down and the supply went down, I would expect prices for the newly shipped oil to be higher. Unfortunately, they go up immediately the same night for gas already stored in tankers.


Now, speaking of profits.... when a gas company like Exxon shows 34 BILLION dollars in profit in one quarter, THAT'S GREED.

I don't care what company it is, profits like that are ridiculous.

Mark

 

Exactly when did Exxon make that kind of profit in one quarter? Are you confusing revenue with profit? Just today they posted a 68% drop in profit over 3rd quarter last year, and they are expected to produce/distribute the exact same amount as last year. To call it greed on the day that these reports come out is baffling. Exxon is a pretty big company. the numbers that they toss around, while in the billions, are not ridiculous.

 

No, I meant profit but I did mistakenly write quarter when I meant year.

Exxon shatters profit records

Oil giant makes corporate history by booking $11.7 billion in quarterly profit in 2007;



Exxon also set an annual profit record by earning $40.61 billion last year - or nearly $1,300 per second in 2007. That exceeded its previous record of $39.5 billion in 2006.


So let's get this straight, They made a profit of over 40 billion in 2007

They made 39.5 billion profit in 2006

You still think we are being charged fairly??

Though this may be one of the larger companies, gas companies all over the world make ridiculous profits.

For any company to make this kind of profit yearly is nothing more than greed.


Mark

 

If I think of the scale of the company. Being the WORLDS largest oil company. The #s dont really phase me. The profit in a gallon of gasoline is miniscule. It is the # of gallons of gasoline used worldide everyday that is the impressive #. Also, do you know enough about the oil business to regulate their profit? How much would you allow them to make?

Being a shareholder the 68% drop in profits worries me more.

 

Also. companies arent people. They dont have emotions or feelings. The word "greed" itself doesnt apply to them. A company is supposed to maximize profit to insure success, and answer to its shareholders. youre anthropomorphizing.

If it really chaps your butt. Go buy some shares. If you cant beat em, join em. Thats what I did.

 

You know, you just made me realize you're right. Generating 45 billion dollars in profit sounds ridiculous but when you consider their gross sales, it comes out to about 9% profit.

That's in line with large manufacturing companies.

Thanks.

Mark

 

Aw cmon I was enjoying the debate.

 

Oil is not so much supply and demand anymore as it is speculation. Let's face it: the dollar isn't worth crap anymore. This country has more debt than our children and grandchildren will ever be able to pay and we just print more monopoly money coupled with more "free" programs. Thus the Euro is worth about $1.50 SO FAR! Why do you think the rest of the world wants to abandon the dollar? To top it off, we can't drill here, we can't build refineries, and we can't even build power plants to support electric cars. The weak dollar is the reason gas is going up, period. Now back to subject......

 

You are correct gaffer. It is PART speculation, and it is PARTLY connected to the strength of the dollar. Commodities markets worldwide are traded on the dollar. When the dollar is strong foreign investors dry up and commodities prices go down. (supply and demand within the commodities markets themselves) The price of oil did drop briefly last week. Some analysts said that this was because of the surge in the dollar.

 

It's not that simple.

First off, the US is MUCH larger than Europe, so we "drive everywhere" more. Also because we are a relatively young country, the population density is generally lower than Europe, diminishing need for alternative transport. Dollar has been depreciating and oil is therefore rising, even though demand is down. Some speculation may be at work here too. Eventually the market will capitulate to lower demand. It certainly did last year.

All the more reason to drive cars like the MINI- fast & frugal should be the new mantra. Help reduce global warming, stick it to the oil oligarchs, and humble characters like Chavez, Putin, and Ahmadinejad ( not to mention the House of Saud ).

 

The R-50 stays in the garage when it's raining, I drive the F-150 (MINI Support Vehicle) instead. It's been raining a whole lot lately, so dread going to the gas station and filling the truck up. Don't know what we would do without a pickup though.

 

First week failure, interesting. Did you do your track days or is that coming up?

I only let it get down to two orange, never have seen red.

The way our weather is starting, I may not drive the MINI again until Spring.

 

On a non-political debate note.....

I have done that many times in my car...sure its supposedly bad, but I've never had an issue. Did it in my R53 all the time too, never had any fuel related problems either.

Most I've put in mine is 14.4 gallons, and I have done that more than once! On average, I usually won't fill up unless its less than 20 miles...usually around 10 left when I fill up. But like I said, I've gotten it down to the dashes many of times . The R53 used to count down each dash...I have yet to see if the R56's count down. Always afraid to push it any further.

 

The lowest Ive ever gotten down to was like 4 miles... And i was freaking out.

 

You wanna see a big gas bill? You should've seen the time we filled up a houseboat on Lake Powell, AZ in 2008 at $5.10/gallon. 300 gallons in the motor tanks, 100 in the toy tank. You had to reset the meter every $450 and pay by CC, then resume. The thing wasn't totally empty but those were some fuel charges. Those things aren't measured in MPG they are in GPM if you know what I mean .