Hey everyone,

So I have encountered a somewhat frightening situation with my car. First, I purchased my vehicle from Irvine BMW MINI in CA in May of 2010. It is a 2008 MCS w/ JCW Tuning kit that was leased for two years then returned and that is when I purchased it. There are about 39,000 miles on the car so I have roughly 11,00 left on my warranty.

I have been having problems with my sunroof/roof since I purchased the car all of which have been taken care of by the dealer under warranty. This is the fourth time the dealer has had my car for a roof/sunroof related rattle that won't go away. In the short time I have owned the car I have lost it to the dealer for these repairs for well over a month. Yesterday my service rep called me and said they removed the sunroof and it appears the welds on internal structure of the roof are all cracking. They are having someone from their RT (??) come to look at it today to determine a course of action. It makes me worry because what if they do a cheap fix and it happens again without a warranty... then I am really screwed!

What are the laws about lemon lawing a car or are there any other possible remedies for the situation? Possible vehicle replacement with another MCS ... would I get the tuning kit since that is how I purchased the vehicle? How would you go about dealing with it? I am only 21 y/o and have never really dealt with anything like this so any input or criticism is greatly appreciated.

BTW the car has never been in an accident and had a clean carfax history report when I bought it.

Thanks,

Tyler

 

I'm a Canadian so I don't know a lot about how lemon laws work in California, but here is a link with some basic information on it. If you've lost the car for over a month for warranty repairs it sounds like you might have a case.

http://www.consumer-action.org/engli...lemon_law_eng/

 

I was under the impression that if its in for 3 or 4 (cant remember) documented repair attempts, it could be classified as one, but the fact that its a used car makes me wonder

 

I'm no legal expert, but my gut tells me that the car's too old for a lemon law. But if the dealer is making good on trying to fix it that's a good thing. At least they didn't blame it on "bad gas" lol. Good luck on this.

 

Yeah I was afraid that too much time has passed to lemon law the car. But I wasn't sure where a dealer draws the line deeming the car unsafe structurally and resolving the problem in a different matter.

 

If they're calling in the "RT" crew that tells me they aren't really familiar with this particular situation, so you have to wait for the specialist's opinion to see what the cure is. It's a drag.

 

Yeah, its a bummer! I guess the only thing that worked out well is I got a free 2011 328i coupe for my rental haha

 

The sunroof assy is a cassette that fits into the roof, if the welds are broken on the cassette, it's simply replaced. If the welds are on the roof assy itself, that's a different story.

I don't think there is a lemon law for used cars, only new - but check with your state's DMV to see....

I think before you go into panic mode, you should see what they have to say - and ask them to show you the broken parts and where they go and why it's a problem. Don't let them slide on this, keep after them - politely but firmly till you get a resolution.

If it's the first thing I mentioned, it's really not a problem, just a bad part that can be replaced. If it's the second, I'd be worried that the car had been in an accident of some sort that wasn't reported to Carfax. That would bother me...

Let us know what they say, but don't blame the dealer, chances are they didn't know about it either.

 

Thanks for the info! The service rep is suppose to call me today and let me know exactly what the RT crew says and how they plan to fix it. The thought of an undisclosed accident crossed my mind too. I am hoping that is not the case though. The individual that actually leased the car before was the brother of the owner of Irvine BMW so I am hoping that the dealership knew of everything about the car and nothing was withheld from me.

 

From what little skimming I did on this topic, I believe it still applies to used cars as long as it it under factory warranty. In any case, hopefully they will be able to just fix it for you to your satisfaction so you can move on

 

if you can't use the lemon law, then i would definitely get mini extended warranty or just take a lost and sell the car. most mini tech said the pana roof is not reliable and many owners can attest to it - rattle, stuck roof, broken assembly, etc. good luck.

 

Yeah I am going to seriously look into the lemon law and if that doesn't work I will also attempt to extend the warranty. My Dad has some experience with this and he said he is willing to help so we will see where we get. I am still waiting to here back from the dealer who said they would call today regarding the situation, what a surprise.

And I will definitely agree that the panoramic roof is not all it is cracked up to be. I originally brought it to the dealer for the stuck sunroof in hot temperatures and a rattle, they replaced the motor but not the rattle. I then returned it for the rattle and they said they went through it and fixed it only for the noise to return two days later. Third time they fixed the rattle for about two months and now I am here with cracking welds. Sorry for another rant but moral of the story is don't get a sunroof in a mini unless you're willing to risk it...

 

Your car is too old to be a lemon under CA laws.

However, a good lawyer could get you some cash under Magnuson-Moss Breach of Warranty Act.

 

I think you're getting ahead of yourself here, first you need to know what's wrong with the car. If it's just the cassette, they can replace it and you should be good to go. Even if there's body problems, a good body shop can straighten that out too - a balky sunroof does not make the car undriveable or worthless.

See what they say is wrong first, then go from there.....

 

Tyler

Firstly, you're not in a bad situation. You have a dealer that is actually trying to resolve the issue, and the vehicle is still under warranty.
Minidave is right, you're getting ahead of yourself.
I would be quite surprised if an "RT shot" is done on the welds, unless RT means something different with respect to cars. An "RT" is a radiograph of a weld seam. A high energy ,radiological source, is put on one side of a weld, and a a film strip on the other side of the weld. Defects in the weld seams show up as exposure on the film strip. At least that is what an "RT shot" is with respects to ASME Section XI Boiler Codes for pressurized vessels. Cars

I'm going to assume that at least a simple magnaflux test will be performed. I'm also going to assume that the repairs may be outside the skill set of the normal service area mechanic,and may require a certified weld/fabrication service.

In most states repairs to a vehicle may be extended beyond the warranty period. The caveat being that the repairs must documented, ie. if your transmission is repeatedly replaced your warranty on just the transmission may reset the clock on only the transmission, not the rest of the vehicle.
In your case you have documented evidence of a repeated issue, ergo the warranty on this issue only may be extended. No guarantees though.

First find out the exact issue. It really sounds to me as if you're service rep is engaged in the issue.

 

And forever spoil your relationship with the dealer.

 

Thanks for the continued feedback. I did not mean to come across as jumping the gun on the whole situation I just wanted to be prepared should a worse situation arise. I spoke with my rep today and the car is currently being repaired in the body shop and I will have it back within the next couple days. I have been reading around here a little more and from what I read it sounds like i am lucky to even have a dealer that is willing to work with me to resolve the situation.

 

So for all who are interested here is an update. Mini sent my vehicle out to get the cracked welds repaired at their shop and still found a rattle in the roof. They continued to replace both sunshades for the sunroof and the cassette that the glass sits in. Now over a month has gone by and last thursday my dealer called and said the car is finally ready. I drive down to the dealership to find they dented my roof while working on the car and the inside of my car was still filthy from the work. Not to mention I got a flat on the way down there in the loaner 328i I was given. So I got yet another loaner 328i from the dealer and my car is being sent back to the body shop again. This is literally turning into a nightmare. I purchased my car at the end of May 2010 and have lost my car to the dealership for repairs for roughly two months. I'm going to go nuts

 

TY ler I can see why you are going nuts over this!! I would be too, so why not just tell the Dealer..."I'm through with this POS", tell them you will not accept the car once they've fixed it this time. Leave it with them and demand to be able to pick another Used MINI off of their Lot...yeah, I know, easier said than done, but really how much more can you go through??!!
I love my MINI, and I have an awesome Dealership to take her to, they know how much I baby her, so even though I've had the Sunroof rattles fixed numerous time, the sunroof adjusted, I still have one last rattle in the Sunroof that I think I've FINALLY found and hopefully will have that taken care of in April when she goes in for her 3rd Year Anniversary Check-up, yes I take Molly to the Dealership every 6mo. for Oil Changes and what ever else comes up interim.

I'm just saying I think that this MINI is one that needs to be put on MINIs Door Step and/or bought back...the issues that you have had to deal with are way more than anyone of us should have to go through!!

 

Dude, that really blows! I'm sorry.

 

RJkimbell, your heart is in the right place but your advice is misplaced.

MINI (Corporate) is not going to buy back a used car from the 2nd owner.

The dealer may step up and do something on a trade for him (and good on them if they do) but there is no legal requirement for them to do so.

MINI is not responsible for a body shop putting a dent in a customer's car, or leaving the interior dirty. That goes back onto the repairing dealer that subcontracted the work and the body shop that did it.

The dealer is doing their part, giving a free loaner car and so on, but I do agree this has gone on far too long!

However, if the dealer won't trade the car back for something else, he's stuck. The pity is, once he gets the car back, chances are the problem is finally fixed....if he just gets rid of it he won't get to enjoy the car the way it should have been all along.

OTOH, even tho he's been denied the use of the car he's been paying for, he hasn't been hurt per se, as they've provided a car of equal or better value for him to drive in the meantime - and at no cost. No, it's not the one he wanted or he would have bought a BMW in the first place, but it's still a nice car.

 

Agreed on all points MINIDave, it still burns my britches though!!

 

I hear you.....

When I read about these long drawn out repairs, I often wonder how much of it is because the car's owner has a loaner and just figures "they'll call me when it's done"? So they don't follow up very frequently, don't ask enough or the right questions to get the answers they want? or maybe they're intimidated by "tech speak" or the service guy somehow.....

Bottom line, don't just wait for the dealer, become pro-active - in a nice way! Be firm, yet polite. If something doesn't sound right, ask them to explain it again and show you on your car. Keep asking questions till you get answers you understand and can believe in. But always be friendly and polite! Imagine how it feels to be on the other side of the desk, trying to explain very complex and complicated things to someone who doesn't have the engineering background to understand them? It'd be like somebody trying to explain quantum physics to me....

But, if you become "the nice guy who just loves his car", maybe they go out of their way to help you rather than stonewall you. Don't go in yelling and screaming, and don't park your car in front of the dealership with lemons painted all over it, or threaten to drive your car thru the dealerships showroom window - those are not the way to get the results you're after!

If I had a complicated warranty repair on a expensive car, I'd be taking in a box of Krispy Kremes or buying pizzas for the shop once a week till I got it back. If it didn't come back perfect, they wouldn't be able to live with themselves!