I've not posted here in a while, but I'd like to post one last time to tell folks the story of my 2008 MCS... I traded it in about 5 hours ago... I've got some mixed feelings, but mostly I'm happy that I made the choice to send it off to a new home...

Some folks are probably not going to be overjoyed with this post, and frankly, I'm not entirely happy about posting it, but... Here goes... Chalk it up to a need for some kind of catharsis... ;-)

My '08 MCS was purchased new from Mini of Sterling (Virginia) in ~Jan 2008... Probably about as close to being fully loaded as they come... I was, of course, excited...

For the first 1,500 miles, everything was great... Then... Spring 2008...

I'd wander out to go to work after a particularly violent thunderstorm, and find my windows down... This happened several times over the course of a few months... (it took me a good while to correlate "lots of lightning" and "windows rolled down", but... For those Engineers in the audience... EMI issues...) It wasn't long before one-touch became intermittent... Then... Rolled the drivers side window down, and it wouldn't go back up... I discovered (on this forum), that you could reset the window controller via a secret set of dash control manipulations... :-) Managed to get the window back up... Made an appointment with Mini of Sterling to have this looked at... Was also having issues with the sunroof refusing to open... It was right about this time that my engine started making some fairly disconcerting mechanical sounds... Sounded a lot like serious lifter/valve clearance issues... Mostly occurring on cold start...

Took the car into Mini of Sterling (after the requisite 4 week wait for an appointment), and was told "We can't duplicate any of your issues"... Followed by "It's an English car... It's going to be a little quirky..." I asked about the engine noise... "The sounds you are hearing are within tolerance"... I ask... "Really? What's the threshold for tolerance?" Then... "Well... I mean that the tech says that the noises are normal..." My response... "OK... Well... Please ask the tech to tell me which subsystem is making the noises..." (I get no real response) At this point, I also ask about the Hydrogen Sulfide smell that fills the cabin everytime I accelerate... I'm told "That happens during break in... You're driving the car too hard... BMW recommends that you not exceed 2000 RPM during break-in". This is counter to the manual, and I'm told *by the tech*, that the manual is incorrect... (The rotten egg smell, BTW, at 34k miles is still there under anything other than lazy acceleration... Tried switching fuel brands, etc...)

After another few thousand miles worth of frustration with the sunroof, with my center console armrest spontaneously self destructing (enormous BANG sound inside the console when the stretchy counterforce bands gave up their little elastic souls), and with continued engine noise and a cabin full of rotten egg smell, I took the car in again... Same response... "Car is normal"... I also ask about the floor mats. The floor mats, BTW, ran me about 200.00... The driver's side mat, when originally installed by the dealer, posed such a ridiculous hazard (catching under the clutch/brake and nearly getting me killed at least twice), that I eventually took the mat out. I was told... "Mini forgot to include several components in the floor mat kit... You'll need some of these threaded disk velcro widgets... They'll be 18.00..." I'm a bit taken aback... "But... I already bought the mats... Shouldn't I get those for free?" Response... "No... Mini forgot to put them in the kit... They cost 18.00..." <sigh> I pay... Eager to have floor mats that aren't trying to murder me...

Bear in mind... I am having a great time driving the car... (beyond the fact that my sunroof doesn't really work, my windows roll themselves up and down, and my car off and on, smells like rotten eggs...) The engine still sounds like a McCormick hay baling machine, but I shrug it off...

After a few more visits to Mini of Sterling (routine maintenance... attempts to get my sunroof/windows fixed, etc... bearing in mind that service appointments there take a 3-4 week lead time), I decide that I'm moving my service needs to Passport Mini...

Night and Day difference! The Passport folks are outstanding... The service department does a bang up job! Same day appointments... Better coffee (and bagels!)... No BS service advisors... (Not a single person ever used the word "quirky"...) They addressed my sunroof issue (shook their heads ruefully and said "it should have been obvious that the sunroof was installed improperly"), appear to have fixed my window problem, but were still dismissing my engine noise issues (which had become more and more like a blacksmith smacking an anvil with a hammer)

At about 28k miles... I release the clutch at a traffic light in NJ... My car goes "Grrrrrrupppp"... I think I've imagined it... Unfortunately not... It does it again a day or two later...

I take the car in to Passport... "Your clutch is failing... Unfortunately, we're not certain that this will be covered under warranty..." I carefully respond that it will be covered under warranty, and that in well over 1 million miles of driving cars/VeryLargeTrucks/VerySmallTrucks/motorcycles/FarmEquipment/snowcats/etc with standard transmissions, this would be the first time I've ever had a clutch fail anywhere close to 32k miles... This is not an aggressively driven car... For folks living in the NoVA/DC area, there is no place TO drive aggressively... Traffic simply does not allow it... Original brake pads/rotors... Original tires... Wear patterns do NOT indicate aggressive driving... After some negotiation with the service manager, Passport did cover the clutch replacement... (again... I maintain that if you're buying/maintaining a Mini... Passport should be your destination of choice...)

Clutch is replaced... I ask about the engine noise (this is the 5th time I've reported it...) and I'm told (as many of you have been before) "We're not able to duplicate the noise that you're describing". Again... I feel obligated to point out that if the dealer can't hear it, I can't expect them to do anything about it... Fair is sometimes frustrating, but nonetheless, fair...

I leave the dealership... 2-3 days later... I'm headed down Lee Highway, and as I'm shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear, the load comes off the engine as the clutch disengages and I hear "BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPP"... I engage the clutch and as the engine spools back up to about 2300 RPM... Timing chain is clearly slapping... <sigh> Back it goes to Passport the next day (same day appointment! Yay Passport!)... The car's odometer still reads about 32k miles... They have the car for a few hours... Then declare "we can't duplicate the noise that you're describing"... I say "OK... Enough... What's it cost for me to purchase a timing chain inspection? How much to have one of your techs crack the cover open, and check the chain and tensioner? If you open the cover, and find that everything is OK, I pay... If you find that there's a problem... You pay... This is cheaper than a replacement engine, and it's cheaper than me spending a day here again..." This worked like a charm... Timing chain, tensioner, sprockets, etc... All replaced under warranty... I'm driving home... LIFE IS GOOD! This is what an engine SHOULD sound like! It's quiet... It's peppy... It does NOT sound like it should be threshing wheat or bailing hay... Wait... My mileage is now only 20 MPG... It was 32 before... Let's reset the average... My mileage never got above about 23-24 MPG after apparently being flashed... But... I can live with that... Maybe the averaging algorithm has just changed... So I take some data... (I really was getting 30-32 reliably, based on collected consumption data) Nope... It's a real effect... Mileage has fallen off quite badly... I decide to live with it... (but I start looking around at new cars)

At 34k miles or so... First really cold morning of 2010... Start the car... The TIMING CHAIN RATTLE is back! And once that settles down... I'm hearing a persistent "clanka-clanka-clanka-clanka" hay bailer sound, which has been there off and on, but is now even louder than it's been before... It's now persistent... Quieter when warm, but still there... Straw... Camel... Fracture...

So... After several years of what, in all fairness, has been a lotta love mixed in with a good bit of irritation... My 2008 MCS is off to find a new, and perhaps more patient, home...

As I said earlier... There are going to be folks that aren't happy with my post, but frankly... This is 2010... The Mini Cooper isn't a Model T... These are modern engines... The ONLY reason that a timing chain suffers this kind of failure at 32k miles is poor engineering (unless you are an engineer, please... Don't try to argue this point with me)... The only reason that a clutch, manufactured from modern materials, fails at 32k miles (assuming it wasn't abused, and trust me, it wasn't) is poor engineering (see previous note about arguing :->)... The car was a blast to drive... There is absolutely no denying that I honestly had a good bit of fun driving the car, but in the end, paying ~28k for a car that, at 32k miles, is experiencing failure modes that it shouldn't be until well after 80-100k miles was too much to ask... As well... Putting up with the ridiculous excuse for service that is Mini of Sterling was, as well, asking too much... A car company is represented by its dealers, including their service departments... (I'll disclaim this by stating that I've not been out there for 18+ months, so perhaps they've corrected their staffing issues... If they haven't, and they're listening... Passport is eating your lunch in all possible ways!)

Before anyone says "but... it's a car... these things happen to cars..." I expect factory fit/finish issues... I expect some trim problems... I don't expect major mechanical failure... This is, in the end, unacceptable...

It was good being part of the community... [Back in '08, Mini drivers used to wave to each other... There's not so much of that any more... Mostly I get odd stares these days... I hope that's just the DC area being, well, the DC area... <sigh>] It wasn't a horrible car, but it also wasn't a great car... <shrug> I will mostly remember it fondly...

 

Sounds like you got a "Lemon". Very sorry for your experience. You can always give MINI a shot in the future. Merry Christmas to you and your family!!!

 

Ouch. yeah sounds like a bad one lol.

So most importantly, what the deuce did you get instead!?

 

If a dealer blew me off like he did you the car would currently be sitting in there dealership window. That message would be very clear. Mini's inability to service and take care of obvious defects that seem to be common problems is not a good trend.

 

Might be the german influence too. If you talk to them they never make mistakes. My brand new Mercedes SLK 350 in 2005 burned a quart of oil every 500 miles and smoked worse then my diesel at start up. They said it was within tolerance. We had meeting and nothing it was my problem. Plan B.
How much money do I have to cost you before you service what you have sold me. Excuse me? You heard the question. Blank stares. I get up walk over to a purchase in process with a nice young couple. You are buying a new MB here today? We are in the process. well I suggest yolu get up and run for your live to another dealer. I explain my newly purchased 70K MB that smokes like a 65 Nova with 250K. They leave. Sales manager gets all upset saying that wasn't fair, etc. What isn't fair is you selling me a car and walking away. I will be out in front of your lot every weekend so the question is how much doi i have to cost you before I get your attention. If you don't believe me try me. Plan C is I drive it through your showroom window after I have the news team here to film. Just think of the free advertising your will get.

They didn't believe me. They didn't really care but the other dealers in area
did when I went to there stores. They asked why I was there. I said MB does not care at all and the offending dealer is closed on Sundays so you are the default location. they freaked out and called MB Corp. Within a week they had a replacement SLK on order. 05 here now sold out so they ordered a new 2006. Do this day I will never own another MB product because of the lack of service. I continue to cost them business every month. I am in sales and see lots of people. Word of mouth is so strong. I tell them to let Phil Smart MB in Seattle know why your went to Bellevue and that make sure to mention my name. I get a call every 6 months or so asking what they can do to make me stop. Close the doors. Too late now. Bellevue loves me but I willnever own another. Dealers and car companies need to know if they screw up they will never sell you another. I long and track all the cars that I move to the other dealer and send them yearly updates incase they lost track. Over 600K in sales so far. Best was a friend who was buying 10 new MB's for his executive team on a company lease. He was there to sign the orders and told them he couldn't buy from them and mentioned my name. He said the look in their faces was priceless. The other MB dealer has a unwritten special promo in my name. Mention my name and get $500 of you best deal from Phil Smart. Just way to much fun. The only sad part is Phil Smart the owner of Phil Smart
in Seattle ina great person and does a lot for the community. He is like 90 so what I hate is the people he trusted to run his company could care less about his name and reputation.

 

Im in springfield and i know those looks

 

I SO congratulate you on taking your revenge on that dealer.
That is the way it SHOULD be.

Fortunately we have Flow MINI now in Raleigh.
I was worried we would get a Leith MINI. A person I worked
with did the same thing you did for Leith (and he's the CEO
of his own company, and a big mover and shaker, and knows
tens of thousands of people). I don't think he did the follow up
like you did though.

Back to the original story.

It's funny about pervceived expectations. He mentioned he had
new what you would not expect to happen until 60-80k miles.
I suspect he didn't mean THAT many problems.

Timing chain out? I paid for my Honda timing belt to be replaced
twice, and twice it was not changed. The original went 200k miles.
I've not had 1/1000 the problems this poor chap has had in 300k miles,
that he had in 30k miles. I'm not plugging Honda just talking about
perceived expectations. I expected the car to last about 160-180k miles.

Fortunately (don't know if I am "lucky" and got the good one, or
the bottom has not fallen out yet, or if he was just SO "unlucky".)
I've had almost no problems. Only the airbag light went off because
I used the horn. That was my fault I should have nown to not use the
phone on a British car.

But I'll tell you if this thing doesn't go 150k miles, even more, 300k
miles, just like my BMW, trouble free, I won't buy anther one.
If it doesn't, I won't buy another one.

I remember when we looked at this, and the mazda3.
(My wife and I). She said we could get it if it were automatic, but
also, what will I do if it breaks (her asking to me)?

"I guess I'll be back to just my Honda again" I said.

My point being it doesn't matter if the car is German, English,
Korean, Japanese or Icelandic. That level of reliability, repairs, non repairs,
and service in general does not meet anyone's expectations, and is
unacceptable.

And word of mouth goes a lot further nowadays.

 

So sorry to read about all the problems with Dealers. I use Yelp.com because it is real customers rating their experiences and telling their stories, good or bad. Here are the ratings for Mini dealers in my area of Los Angeles. Top score is a 5. Currently I have a 2010 Mazda 3, I looked up my local dealers who rated about the same save one in Huntington Beach. This is really sad.


Mini of Universal city-2
South Bay Mini-3
Bob Smith Mini-2.5
Nick Alexander 3.5
Mini of Monrovia-2.5
Long Beach Mini-3(only 5 reviews)

Maybe Mini dealers feel they have an advantage since it is a somewhat specialized car. From what I have read on here, I am less inclined to purchase or even lease a Mini. I have never heard of a car having the clutch go with such low mileage much less an oil, coolant leak at only 10K.
BMW is obviously not that good at making engines. German engineering might have been good at one time, but not anymore.

 

What a drag to get a "mechanically challenged" car. But from reading these boards for 3+ years the difference in dealerships issue is definitely a problem. To my recollection the Sterling dealership has had complaints. Specifically they have taken the old "blame the customer" approach before. The classic is to blame "bad gas" for fuel pump issues, to go so far as to claim that using gas for less than 85% ethanol caused their problem (which is impossible BTW). The clutch thing can be a blame the customer issue too. The timing chain issue is widely known about, and different dealers treat it differently. At least the OP found a nice dealer. I would probably bail if I had his car too. Life's too short to keep going back to a dealer over and over. Just dump the lemon and get another car!

 

And the difference in Perceptions of dealers is amazing. I bought my 2011 MCS from Hendrick here in Charlotte based on rave reviews from co workers who have their Minis serviced there. Carolina BBB rates then A+, Yelp 4.5. My experience with them so far has been fantastic. Yet there are folks on this board what have had a really bad experience with them. Go figure.....

 

Anybody have any experience with Hendrick of Charleston? I am picking up my 2011 MCS from them on Thursday.

 

While I have fingers crossed re: my 2009 Clubby S' durability, etc, one major concern I have is why do we have to feel like we are continually looking over our shoulder for the next shoe to drop? This is 2010; BMW-sponsored automobiles should not leave one with that type of feeling. However, the landscape is littered with major companies in many industries who once were king of the hill. Through sloopy attention to detail, etc, they are now just a passing thought. Given the folks who tend to buy these cars, I don't think most who do will stand for/nor reinvest in such a car. As my car moves closer to the end of it's warranty period, I will most definitely move to another brand.

 

Hawkeye, have you actually had problems with your Clubby? You don't say. Would you buy a different brand if your car is relatively problem free? One thing that I wonder (and I have read others express the same thought in these forums) is whether or not people posting about their problems here are a true representation of the actual MINI community. While they exist, the majority of the topics here are not about how problem free these cars are. It's the nature of the beast that people here will post their problems.

 

South Bay and Long Beach are actually very good. I've never had a bad service experience with either. Can't comment on the other dealers but I've had friends have "other" experiences with Alexander and Universal City.