Hello all.

I'm currently looking for a new weekend/track car. I'll be doing 3 or 4 weekends per year and will use the car on a limited weekend/mountain day-trip auto. Even though I can't go to the track that often, the track will still be the primary focus for the car.

I've taken testrides in a Mini and I think this may be the car I want. My question is: given my intended use would you guys reccommend starting with an '07 MCS and adding suspension and engine mods specifically for track or should I start with the JCW equipment package. Currently I'm thinking about getting the MCS and putting the exact mods on that I want.

Any thoughts/info would be much appreciated. BTW, I'll mainly be going to VIR.

Thanks,
Mike

 

Are both options used?

I am really new to the mini scene but from what I've read and gathered, the JCW package is great from factory but if you plan to mod those components, might as well just get the S and add nicer aftermarket mods. That's just my opinion though.

 

Welcome to NAM

A truely track dedicated MINI is not much of a weekend car. You might want a MINI that handles well with a fully adjustable suspension and dedicated track wheels and tires but keep many of the interior comfort and convenience items.
An adjustable suspension will allow you to have some control over stiffness or softness and having a set of street wheels and tires will allow some comfort on the road.

Some good MINI race video clips to watch for inspiration-
http://www.tsrennsport.com/weblog/?cat=10


Before you decide you might want to locate your local MINI club and attend an event or find your closest Sports Car Club of America Autocross event and check out any Track ready or highly modded MINIs of 2007 or later.

I have a feeling that if you are experienced with tracking cars in the past, the JCW MINI will be lacking in many respects as it is a Factory built mid modded MINI best for street driving. The GP MCS was pretty good but no longer available.

For track you really need a full out custom adjustable suspension and dedicated track wheels and tires which the JCW lacks. Doesn't mean you could not add them.

Custom Big brake kit, Cobb Access Port MAP, Race seat, removed interior, Cat back exhaust and lots of driving school all common mods.

Basically you want to spend as little as you can on a base 2007 MCS then mod it up the way you want. Talk to Way at WMW to get some feedback from customers that track late model MINIs. See what works for your given budget.

JCW is lost on a track MINI since you are really paying a premium for the better than stock parts AND a warranty on them which you would be voiding or removing if you did upgrade anything. Why pay more to just remove them?

 

Thanks guys. Getting the "S" is what I thought would be the best approach. I'll call WMW to get an idea of what they'd suggest to start off with.

I used to race motorcyles and guess I'm needing a "fix". I really don't want to go with something where I'll be going 150-170 down the straights. I mainly want something that will be a load of fun in the turns.

I'm also looking at the Lotus Elise. The Lotus would be more of an initial investment, but likely would not need any immediate modification. I'm thinking they would have equal fun factors.

Thanks.

 

The MINI cannot do 150 mph in a straight line. But in corners it can keep up with any car on a tight track using R compound tires.

Just to give you an idea of what the MINI is capable of-

At the last two autocross events in my area-

2005 MINI Cooper S in stock class
Stock sized 16" wheels and Hoosier A6 tires
Cat Back exhaust

Vs
Lotus Elise stock class with stock wheels
Bridgestone RE11 Extreme Summer tires

Event A

MCS 31.212 seconds 22nd on raw time out of 100
Elise 32.601 seconds 40th on raw time

Event B

MCS 38.779 seconds 25th on raw time out of 100
Elise 41.714 seconds 53rd on raw time

Both drivers are experienced. The Elise driver has BMW M3 background and is in first season with the Elise. The MINI driver has several seasons with the MCS and had to drive it these two times due to an accident that stopped him from running a Porsche GT3 with race tires.

While both cars are fun to drive, the MINI is much easier to drive well and at the limit. Add race tires and a good suspension and you are in good shape. The Elise is not as easy to drive at the limit and it's easy to mess up along the way. Although you can drive it in stock form the tires cannot keep up with the rest of the car and you will find cornering is not easy to control.

Try going out to a track and see if you can find a MINI or Elise out there, or try an autocross event. They are common cars to locate usually. Driving skill counts a lot so assuming a good driver both are capable with a lot of overlap on performance depending on what you might add.

On the street the MCS is much for comfortable and civilized for any trips while the Elise is bare bones although you will get noticed, hopefully not by police and racer wannabes.

 

I think Minihune summed it up very well. My past experience was streetbikes. I've raced at Mid Ohio, VIR, Road Atlanta for years before I got into minis. I'm on my 4th mini in two years.

The first two were convertibles which I traded for an '08MCSa which I tracked.

I eventually traded that in for an '09JCW. If it were me, I'd start with a base JCW and mod it from there.

The only other thing I would want from the factory was the JCW brakes.

Upgrade pads, add some suspension and a tune and you'll have a kick *** track car.

Ask me how I know.


Mark

 

Mark - I used to live in Charlotte and lived there while running with WERA & CCS. Now I live in Troutman. When did you race bikes & with which organization.

Both - I currently have a low mileage 1991 Porsche 911 Targa C2 that isn't getting a lot of use. I'll probably end up taking it to a dealer and doing some kind of a trade for a used Mini. From what I've read the Lotus is rather harsh for much highway use and has very limited storage space. With the Mini I can throw my tools in the rear.

Thanks again,

Mike

 

I would start off with the JCW as well if you had the money. You will need at least $4000 to $5000 for suspension work whichever way you go. Then you will need a few other things just to be able to keep up on the straight such as IC, perhaps a tune. This is probably in the $3000 range or so. If you have the JCW, then you save about $2000 on the bbk. Then you will need $2000 on safety equipment.

I would still go with the JCW as there is a little less to add.

 

If you don't need the back seat you can always find a GP for sale.

Me personally like my 2009 JCW. I don't auto-cross but I did do hot laps at Daytona on the road course and it was good enough that nobody could keep up with me in the road course. Of course on the banks I got dusted.148mph is the limit on my car.

My JCW is just a very good all around performance car that is as fun on the street as it is on the track. My only option is the factory "Sport Suspension" and I do have Michelin Exalta 215/45/17 summer only non-runflat tires installed.

Whatever you decide I'm sure you will have a fun car that you will enjoy on the track or on the road.

 

The only thing you "need" for the track is brake pads and fluid. The rest is just fun stuff.

As far as I can tell, the JCW has an advantage in the turbocharger and brakes and that's really it.

The JCW suspension (which is an option anyway) is only mildly better in the grand scheme of things and you can do much better on your own.

The JCW turbo is a decent difference I think, but it may not matter much to you. Adding a Cobb/Alta AP to an MCS will probably make up that difference (though you'd be sitting pretty if you added that to a JCW).

The JCW brembos are enough for most people at the track with good pads, fluid, and maybe some ducting. Stoptechs are probably slightly better and TCE's wilwood kits seem nice.

Suspension, do some research and take what most people say with a grain of salt. IMO get something german or dutch.....or swedish.

- Andrew

 

I would run with the WERA guys. I started to get into it but like every other hobby/sport, it becomes too much when it owns you and you don't own it.

When you start to get involved running for points and standings, you lose your life and it takes the fun out of it.

I sold my sportbikes and built a couple of Harleys.

Now my fun is riding the Harley and racing the mini.

Where are you living now?

If you still come to Charlotte, get in touch with me and we'll get together.


Mark

 

If you are planning on competing (like in high speed autox and not just track days), check the rules. The stock S model is usually classed very competitively where as the JCW usually isn't. Obviously mods, change things from there.

 

Andyroo is correct, the suspension is the hardest thing to tune for the track. Most posts about suspensions are very subjective. Since this is primarily a track car for you, I think the parts you should add should be track capable, not the lighter duty street versions. Just know that reliability will become more of an issue when you add more things.

Do not forget about safety gear. The Mini is an easy car to track initially but when you move up in speed, it is a money sink to make it go quicker. I had a track Elise before getting the Mini and have to say that the Elise has more potential than the Mini. But you have to be a significantly better driver to make that car go fast.

 

mwike - Welcome to the wonderful world of modifiable Minis . They are a blast on the track, but from my experience with the S, I would have perferred the JCW. JCW brakes are a big plus, but it also makes really good power without doing anything. There are a lot of posts about WHP and the Minis appear to be under rated and you get at the wheels close to the stated crank HP. The JCW supension is better than the S's for the track to start with. All good stuff. I would start with just a good set of race pads and maybe a larger rear sway bar (cuts down the inherent understeer), take it out and see what you you think it needs. Try it out first then build from there.

There are a lot of threads about these cars and what you can/should do with them for taking them onto the track. Here are a few that you might want to look at. You will note that none have to do with suspensions as there is so much out on NAM, I could not list them.

1) no matter which you choose you will want an FMIC:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...group-buy.html

This is a deal you can't miss...see my post #14 about engine intake heat soak.

2) if you want race seats, but want to retain safety, these are the best seats you can buy:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-bad-news.html
don't let the thread name fool you, this is about the European JCW Recaro seats

3) the tune out of the box that seems to really work:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...rt-thread.html

Ask Orangecrush:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ne-review.html
He had a few issues with it but overall gave it "go get it" approval.

4) As for the turbo in the JCW, according to Alta the JCW turbo is bigger by about 20% than the S's, so it should be better for making power:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...neak-peak.html

5) Make sure you get a car with LSD, not the e-LSD that uses the brakes to get a similar effect. This will help with the torque steer and corner exit.

then there is the track schedule:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...hedule-11.html

Enjoy

 

Well said Eddie! Anymore and you'll have to just buy the car for him...lol.


Mark