We brought the MINI for its inspection/oil change etc. under warranty from the dealer. The nearest dealer is an hour away. After driving 40 mins to get home after the appointment the oil light came on, we pulled over and sat and waited for roadside assistance. There was a big spill of oil under the car and a horrible smell. The car got towed back to the dealership and we heard from their service center today.

Please bear with me... I am relaying this second hand through my husband who said what the dealer reported. He said the dealer said it was an o-ring that broke, that it happens often and that MINI is thinking of putting a notice out on the part. They said that it was their fault and they should have replaced it. The smell was oil burning on the engine(?) and that the level of oil wasn't that low so no damage was done to the engine.

My understanding was that the oil light came on for low pressure, not low volume and that once the light comes on you can't then be too sure about the engine.

Does anyone know how this all could have effected my car? I am trying to figure out what is understandable to expect from the dealership, what if any damage was done.

Thanks for any input!

 

There are two indicators for oil. One is on the computer display and one is a warning light. The warning light indicates low pressure -- which can be caused by not having enough (or too much) oil in the car. The other on the computer display will indicate more details on the issue.

How much oil was under the car and what o-ring are they talking about? I would have thought they didn't tighten the oil pan bolt, failed to replace the oil filter (or properly and it fell off), or left the oil cover off (but that wont lead to oil being under the car). I don't see an o-ring being that large of a problem (but then again which o-ring is it?). Even if a seal failed, it wouldn't dump much oil below the engine (as it would dribble at best).

 

Its sounds like improper oil filter placement/tightening. That would pretty much blow oil over the engine.

 

I would have a leak down check done on the car and get the dealer to extend the warranty of the engine to be honest. There is no telling what damage could ahve been caused by the starvation of oil. Especially with a turbo.

 

OK thank you, this helps a bit. They are saying that there was still enough oil in there, not ideal, but that they had seen worse with no damage done to other cars before so they aren't really taking what happened to my car seriously. I feel, hey that is great for those people, but I want to be sure that there is no damage done to MY car.

They are offering just to fully document it so that if we come back with problems they will know if it is based on this problem. I am not OK with that, as I see them fighting if issues were caused by this and honestly I don't want the "what if" they will cover this later down the line to be their choice.

We asked for an extended warranty and they refused, saying that they have seen worse with other cars and that they think there was plenty of oil left in there.

I want to come back to them with some more knowledge on all of this. If the oil light went on, does that mean that there is definitely a chance for damage? Would the light come on as a warning and the computer display (I am assuming that this is the display that they dealer can read? Or is this something that I can read myself?) say that this is a problem that is going to happen if you don't fix it ASAP?

I am not sure what o-ring they are talking about. The way it was described to me was like they had seen an old o-ring and didn't fix it and then it blew. But that doesn't make sense that it would happen immediately right after the oil change if they hadn't done something wrong and they aren't telling us the full story.

I am also not sure how much oil was under the car, since we were driving it on the thruway for 40 mins before the light came on, I noticed afterwards a trail of oil on the ground when I left the car and a friend came and picked me up.

Thanks again!

 

If they didn't replace the o-ring on the filter cannister when they changed the oil - then bad on them!

The o-ring did not necessarily leak the whole 40 min you were driving your car, rather it failed and the oil quickly got low enough to turn on the low oil pressure light. You did the right thing to immediately shut off the engine, pull over and have it towed back.

I don't know how you can plan for an eventuality that may not come, other than to do as they're suggesting and document things thoroughly. If you have an oil related failure at a later date, then you may have some ammunition to get it repaired at their cost, but I agree with them that doing anything now is premature.

Contrary to the opinions expressed frequently on this and many other forums, they do not "owe" you anything "for your trouble". What they owe you is what they've done, which is to repair the car, document what happened and be prepared to stand behind it if it fails from their mistake at a later time.

I think I'd just go on and enjoy your MINI and don't assume it's going to be a problem, rather treat it exactly as you would have had it not leaked.

 

I think what I am trying to figure out is what the likelihood that what they did caused damage to my car. I am sorry, but they do owe me for damage that they did to my car if any was done. It wasn't a favor of them to give me an oil change... it is part of the warranty of the car that I paid for.

I am NOT OK with them just documenting it for a later date. I know I am pretty ignorant on this specific incident and what damage it did/didn't, but for instance it did damage the engine and the gas millage is less, or it needs to be repeatedly brought into the shop for repairs that is my time, money etc. for something that they did to the car. Right now while the car is still at the shop I have to figure what is going to happen.

I am trying to gather from people who know more about this what the likelihood damage was done so that I can talk to the dealership and be a little more educated about this topic.

 

Agree 100% with MINIdave. In all likelihood, everything is fine. They probably damaged the rubber O ring on the filter housing when they replaced the filter and it eventually failed resulting in the leak. No sense worrying about the future. If something does come up oil related, you have documentation that would explain it, and at that point you look for a remedy.

 

I had the same experience but with a "03 MCS. My local shop did the oil change and everything seemed fine. If fact, I drove for a good 30 - 40 miles before getting home, with a number of stops and noticed nothing unusual. Once in the driveway, I noticed a trail of oil under the car, looked under and was shocked to see oil spray all over the engine and my newly installed Milteck header/cat-back. (Same day install)

Immediately called my shop and had the car towed back, thanks to CAA!
I went with the car and once at the shop we checked the oil level and noticed that I had only lost about half a litre. (less than half a quart)

Oil level still above min. on dip-stick and no warning lights. Mechanic thought the o-ring on the oil filter was a bit too loose before install but after install, initial check revealed no problems.

So, although the oil loss on the ground/ all over engine looked really bad I actually had a lucky day. We replaced the old o-ring, shampooed the engine bay, exhaust, topped up the oil and no further issues to report.
This happened in May.

I think if your issue was the filter o-ring you are probably fine. It would be nice to know exactly how much oil you lost but it is quite amazing how a relatively small amount of oil sprayed out from the damaged/failed o-ring can look like a disaster!
Hope your situation works out like mine. Cheers Ed

 

I understand your concerns, but without tearing the engine down and measuring parts - there's really no way to KNOW with certainty. Would you pay for the teardown? What if no damage was found then?

I think you're just gonna have to relax and quit worrying about it, or sell the car if you can't.

 

I agree with MINIdave mostly. The part I do feel that they owe you for is for your time and hassle in having to have the car repaired after they failed to provide adequate service. I would also make sure that they clean the affected area well and I would request a copy either via letter or photocopy of the notes they have attached to the car for future reference. While unlikely, you would always have proof of the incident so that in the future you do not risk the dealership "losing" any record of the incident, not that they would.

 

concur that in 99 of 100 cases like yours there is no perm' damage. In both the GEN1 and GEN2 engines, pinching the o-ring on the oil filter canister is not all that difficult to do. Dig around and you'll find plenty of war stories from people who've done this on a DIY oil change. I pinched mine once and ended up blowing oil for about 5 minutes 'til I noticed the tail following me. All tho it loooked ugly I was only down about a quart. If you stopped when you saw the oil warning lite the chances you did damage are very low.

Under pressure a fairly small leak can really launch oil all over the engine compartment. As soon as it hits something hot you get smoke and smells. If everything got cleaned well there should be no problem from that regard; but potential issues to watch for down the road are belt damage or oil that got into the alternator. remote possibilities but if there IS a problem, pull out the dealer write-up.

 

If the oil pressure light came on, you should try to find out what pressure will trigger that. On older cars with (basically) mechanical oil pressure lights, the light does not go on until the pressure is very low indeed. In those cases, you have very very little time to turn the engine off before damage has been done.

Oils are better than they were back when the above became common knowledge, so you probably have a little more time before the oil film gets compromised. So if you turned the engine off as soon as you saw the light, chances are good your engine is fine. If you drove 10 miles with the light on, your engine has almost certainly been damaged. I don't know how long a time of driving it would be OK with the light on, but you can figure your odds are better the shorter that time is.

And if the light is triggered by something more complex and intelligent than an old-fashioned pressure switch, then it could have warned you earlier and your odds would be even better. But I don't know how the MINI does that.

 

since yours an '09 and warranty is almost up in 1-2 years or so, i would try to get an extended warranty at a discount, at least at their cost.

 

The key here is you saw the idiot light and did the correct thing, pull over immediately and not drive the car. This makes your situation as good as it gets. Odds are nothing is going to go wrong long term.

If you drove it home, you would be in bad shape.

 

banannastand: I understand your perspective and your concerns but agree with most of the opinions above. Do you remember the advertisements a few years back (I think it was Castrol) where they were running engines on engine stands after draining the oil and after all of the engines but one had seized the one which was running the synthetic (Castrol) oil was still operating and not hot? I agree with the other posts, you did the right thing shutting down the car and having it towed back. If the oil pressure was in fact quite low the parts were still protected from high wear due to the film of synthetic oil on them. Try to put this behind you, believe in the lubrication qualities of the synthetic lubricant protecting the rotating components regardless of the oil pressure and have a ball with your MINI.

 

The key thing I haven't heard yet was exactly how far the oil level was down when the car was shut down. Down a qt or two, probably Okay, but it is quite possible it had less than a qt remaining (that's typically when the oil pickup unports and you get a oil pressure warning light), and then some damage is pretty much inevitable. The engine may run fine, and may run fine for a long time, but it may also prematurely fail due to this - it's really hard to say. And don't believe those stupid Duralube commercials - engines don't like running on no oil.

If it were my car, I'd press and press hard for a free extended warranty on the engine. Escalate to MiniUSA if you have to. I see their position that the odds are good you're probably Okay and tearing down the engine on the chance something might have happened doesn't make sense. But to do absolutely nothing but clean the car up and pack you on your way puts ALL the risk on you for something they clearly screwed up on.

- Mark

 

Yeah, that is marketing hype not real life.

 

daflake: So following your logic, there is nothing but marketing hype behind the benefits of synthetic lubricants, so we should all change to conventional oils when our MINI's are out of warranty and save a bunch of money. Porsche, Mercedes Benz, BMW, MINI, VW, Corvette and many other manufacturers use synthetic lubricants as factory fill and recommend the use of these lubricants. I suppose these very competent manufacturers have also been sucked into the marketing hype. I think I'll stick with the synthetic lubricants and flush my money down the toilet believing the hype.....

 

I think the argument being made was "An engine will not really keep running with no oil in it, even if it HAD been filled with synthetic," not "there is no benefit to synthetic over conventional."

 

Tell them you want free oil changes for life and call it a day.

 

Nobody is arguing synthetic over dino... The comment was about believing that your engine is ok if you run it dry. We could test this and let your engine run dry to see what you think?

First and foremost you are forgetting that when a low pressure light does come on there is likely not enough oil getting to the upper part of the engine block as well as the turbo. The heat is high and even letting it run for a 10 seconds without oil is not a good idea. Of course I am guessing that banannastand has an MCS.

I'm pretty sure the commercial you are thinking of is Slick 50 which was/is an additive rather than an oil and even if it was an oil commercial anytime you let the block run dry you are risking damage and/or reduced life of the engine.

Sorry, but I think that a lot of you are mistaken if you "just call it a day" on this. The dealership screwed up and if two months from now the turbo fails or something worse, the dealer may try to get out of the warranty. I think that the OP should get the dealer to extend the warranty on the engine and make sure it is all done in writing. If they are not willing to do so a lawyer should get involved. Popping an engine is not cheap and if it were your car you would be thinking the same.

 

I didn't make it clear, it was in my sig, but I have Justa Cooper not a MCS.

Would that change your thought process on how it could have been damaged?

The dealer said that he was 100% sure that there was no damage. I am a bit weary because the oil pressure light DID come on, so at some point there wasn't enough. He is saying 100% sure, not pretty sure or most likely.

We refused to sign any documents that say that we accepted the repairs they did, and it is supposed to be documented throughly what happened.

They refused to give an extended warranty, the car has about 25,000 miles left/Fall 2013 of its current one. He is saying we would know by then if there was damage.

I don't have the money to "just sell" the car as was suggested earlier to get a better piece of mind. I am also frustrated that it is a topic that I don't know enough about to know if I am being told the truth or being taken advantage of a bit.

 

They should have an easy time printing the documentation so you can keep a copy. Ask for it and if you are not sure about what they wrote then post a copy on here and we will all dissect it for you. You really should know what they have written about your car, especially since the keep referring to this "holy grail" documentation that protects you from future damage.

 

Nope, doesn't change a thing. In fact, I would find an independent to check it and tell the dealer that you want them to pay for it. A leak down check can tell you more about the health of the engine. They are telling you all of this so that they can simply walk away from it. If your engine fails a week later you would would be OK, but what if it fails a year from now? Then what? Sorry, but I would want get a lawyer involved in this one.