R56 Highest HP from R56
#201
10-31-2011, 10:41 PM
I should have put a smiley after my statement, I meant forged as in a forgery, like forged checks. I meant it as a joke. 
(Too late huh?) My sense of humor often gets me into trouble!
But, you are right, forged pistons are better in situations in which detonation could be a problem, as in modified turbo engines.
The higher percent of silicon in cast pistons makes them more brittle than forged pistons. But cast pistons are lighter and more temperature stable than forged pistons, also they are more expensive to manufacture.
I wanted to get into building race car engines, when I went to engineering school, but I somehow got diverted into large slow speed industrial diesels instead. Such is life!
I still like hot rods though and am watching this thread with interest!
Thanks
Dave
(Too late huh?) My sense of humor often gets me into trouble!But, you are right, forged pistons are better in situations in which detonation could be a problem, as in modified turbo engines.
The higher percent of silicon in cast pistons makes them more brittle than forged pistons. But cast pistons are lighter and more temperature stable than forged pistons, also they are more expensive to manufacture.
I wanted to get into building race car engines, when I went to engineering school, but I somehow got diverted into large slow speed industrial diesels instead. Such is life!
I still like hot rods though and am watching this thread with interest!
Thanks
Dave
#202
10-31-2011, 10:57 PM
To finish what I said earlier today....
As you see is evident from this dyno....a giant GT28RS (relatively speaking...) is not necessary for good power out of your R56. This is out of a tiny STOCK K03 on a Cooper S, with an aquamist meth kit and tune for the meth. Crazy eh? I didn't even believe it was an R56 when I first saw it...but indeed it is.
If this is a taste of what is possible on a stock turbo....throw on a JCW turbo, or even bigger hybrid, and you will have yourself a fast frickin R56. Sure you might not be able to make 320whp....but do you need that? Nope. Trust me anything around 250whp and 260+ wtrq makes for a really fun car...and there are not many cars that can get away from a mini with those numbers.
Simple, cost effective, and relatively safe (thanks to the meth). Keep it simple folks.
#205
11-01-2011, 07:47 AM
#207
11-01-2011, 08:11 AM
#208
11-01-2011, 09:55 AM
I agreed with you a long time ago when you first did the swap. I just want to relieve cylynder pressure by loosing pool which will halter driveability but flow more air with less pressure.
What bigger hybrids can be done? I saw an IHI retrofit across the pond that looked very interesting.
What about a small turbine wheeled 28?
To finish what I said earlier today....
As you see is evident from this dyno....a giant GT28RS (relatively speaking...) is not necessary for good power out of your R56. This is out of a tiny STOCK K03 on a Cooper S, with an aquamist meth kit and tune for the meth. Crazy eh? I didn't even believe it was an R56 when I first saw it...but indeed it is.
If this is a taste of what is possible on a stock turbo....throw on a JCW turbo, or even bigger hybrid, and you will have yourself a fast frickin R56. Sure you might not be able to make 320whp....but do you need that? Nope. Trust me anything around 250whp and 260+ wtrq makes for a really fun car...and there are not many cars that can get away from a mini with those numbers.
Simple, cost effective, and relatively safe (thanks to the meth). Keep it simple folks.
What bigger hybrids can be done? I saw an IHI retrofit across the pond that looked very interesting.
What about a small turbine wheeled 28?
To finish what I said earlier today....
As you see is evident from this dyno....a giant GT28RS (relatively speaking...) is not necessary for good power out of your R56. This is out of a tiny STOCK K03 on a Cooper S, with an aquamist meth kit and tune for the meth. Crazy eh? I didn't even believe it was an R56 when I first saw it...but indeed it is.
If this is a taste of what is possible on a stock turbo....throw on a JCW turbo, or even bigger hybrid, and you will have yourself a fast frickin R56. Sure you might not be able to make 320whp....but do you need that? Nope. Trust me anything around 250whp and 260+ wtrq makes for a really fun car...and there are not many cars that can get away from a mini with those numbers.
Simple, cost effective, and relatively safe (thanks to the meth). Keep it simple folks.
#210
11-01-2011, 10:14 AM
I agreed with you a long time ago when you first did the swap. I just want to relieve cylynder pressure by loosing pool which will halter driveability but flow more air with less pressure.
What bigger hybrids can be done? I saw an IHI retrofit across the pond that looked very interesting.
What about a small turbine wheeled 28?
What bigger hybrids can be done? I saw an IHI retrofit across the pond that looked very interesting.
What about a small turbine wheeled 28?
A small turbine 28 would be a GT2560....compressor wheel of the 28RS, but a smaller exhaust turbine than the 28. It's a much better option for our motor in my opinion. I'd still go smaller though, the GT2554 is the way to go if you want to go Garrett
#211
11-01-2011, 10:31 AM
i referred a buddy to Gpop and they made the biggest ko3 you can make (wheel to housing) and it flows per comp map a little over 29lbs /min
If you get a custom hybrid made from a turbo company like Blousch, you can spec it out to whatever you want. Not sure the max size you can fit in our K03 housing...but you can go bigger than the JCW for sure.
A small turbine 28 would be a GT2560....compressor wheel of the 28RS, but a smaller exhaust turbine than the 28. It's a much better option for our motor in my opinion. I'd still go smaller though, the GT2554 is the way to go if you want to go Garrett
A small turbine 28 would be a GT2560....compressor wheel of the 28RS, but a smaller exhaust turbine than the 28. It's a much better option for our motor in my opinion. I'd still go smaller though, the GT2554 is the way to go if you want to go Garrett
Last edited by Bigprfed22; 11-01-2011 at 11:47 AM.
#212
11-01-2011, 04:10 PM
6th Gear
For those of you not familiar with Garrett's GT28RS --- a couple of the differences are:
The Garrett needs an external bypass valve (BOV), while the OEM turbo has one built-in and is controlled by the ECU.
The Garrett waste gate is controlled by a positive pressure, while the OEM turbo is controlled by a vacuum (and the ECU again).
The Garrett air intake is a 3" opening --- almost twice the OEM size, requiring some fancy plumbing. Check out my pics on pg 7 of this thread.
The Garrett doesn't fit under the hood without hood modifications. See the pics again.
The Garrett exhaust pipe connection will not bolt directly to the OEM exhaust (but who keeps the OEM exhaust anyhow).
The Garrett air outlet is angled "differently", so more fancy plumbing is needed to connect to the FMIC.
When the ECU doesn't see the BOV, it throws a cel. This can be defeated by either plugging in a 12 ohm resistor (which worked for me), or removing the OEM BOV and connecting it to the ECU cable. Either way, you need to secure the "fix" someplace, to keep it from flopping around.
Waste gate control can be done with a boost controller, which also needs to be connected and fastened down someplace.
And after it's all installed, you'll find out that the MCS ECU is limited to about 22 PSI (so I've been told)! The JCW ECU, I'm told can handle up to about 27 PSI, but it's not easy to switch ECU's, if it can be done at all!
Each of these "features" can be overcome, but WHY? 20 - 22 PSI is more than enough, and the extra work required isn't worth any more than bragging rights to the uninitiated. It's hard to beat a good hybrid, for both fit and ECU compatibility. If I could have found one before I bought the Garrett (Nov 2010), I would have. This is where I plug Alta's hybrid - I didn't know about it last Nov, but it's worth considering as an option. There are probably a few others also.
I strongly suggest to anyone --- do some homework before committing a couple thousand bucks.
The Garrett needs an external bypass valve (BOV), while the OEM turbo has one built-in and is controlled by the ECU.
The Garrett waste gate is controlled by a positive pressure, while the OEM turbo is controlled by a vacuum (and the ECU again).
The Garrett air intake is a 3" opening --- almost twice the OEM size, requiring some fancy plumbing. Check out my pics on pg 7 of this thread.
The Garrett doesn't fit under the hood without hood modifications. See the pics again.
The Garrett exhaust pipe connection will not bolt directly to the OEM exhaust (but who keeps the OEM exhaust anyhow).
The Garrett air outlet is angled "differently", so more fancy plumbing is needed to connect to the FMIC.
When the ECU doesn't see the BOV, it throws a cel. This can be defeated by either plugging in a 12 ohm resistor (which worked for me), or removing the OEM BOV and connecting it to the ECU cable. Either way, you need to secure the "fix" someplace, to keep it from flopping around.
Waste gate control can be done with a boost controller, which also needs to be connected and fastened down someplace.
And after it's all installed, you'll find out that the MCS ECU is limited to about 22 PSI (so I've been told)! The JCW ECU, I'm told can handle up to about 27 PSI, but it's not easy to switch ECU's, if it can be done at all!
Each of these "features" can be overcome, but WHY? 20 - 22 PSI is more than enough, and the extra work required isn't worth any more than bragging rights to the uninitiated. It's hard to beat a good hybrid, for both fit and ECU compatibility. If I could have found one before I bought the Garrett (Nov 2010), I would have. This is where I plug Alta's hybrid - I didn't know about it last Nov, but it's worth considering as an option. There are probably a few others also.
I strongly suggest to anyone --- do some homework before committing a couple thousand bucks.
#213
11-01-2011, 05:58 PM
#214
11-01-2011, 08:22 PM
$8k out of pocket for an engine rebuild on a car that still will never work right, vs $8-10k financeable difference for a car that does work right and does hold its value better than anything out there
On top of it, selling all my 56 mods is adding up nicely...enough to pay off a CC
Every situation is different of course, but trust me, I hear ya. The thought of the 56 motor blowing again, scared me everytime I drove it.
#216
11-02-2011, 06:44 AM
I'm 24 also....for me, selling the R56 was the best decision ever money wise.
$8k out of pocket for an engine rebuild on a car that still will never work right, vs $8-10k financeable difference for a car that does work right and does hold its value better than anything out there
On top of it, selling all my 56 mods is adding up nicely...enough to pay off a CC
Every situation is different of course, but trust me, I hear ya. The thought of the 56 motor blowing again, scared me everytime I drove it.
$8k out of pocket for an engine rebuild on a car that still will never work right, vs $8-10k financeable difference for a car that does work right and does hold its value better than anything out there
On top of it, selling all my 56 mods is adding up nicely...enough to pay off a CC
Every situation is different of course, but trust me, I hear ya. The thought of the 56 motor blowing again, scared me everytime I drove it.
Unfortunately we can't get JCW GPs down in Aus, but I almost bought an 2006 R53 JCW, but I couldn't justify paying 44k for a 2006 car that had 30000 miles on it when I could get a brand new JCW for 50k, with a 3 year warranty.
I also do really love my R56, and I will probably just end up owning one of each when I get some more money.
I'm sure I can make the engine more reliable, just will have to do a bottom up rebuild with some monster internals.
P.S. good to know you're another youngster, I just assumed you were older. Rare to meet a mad modder under 25. I just happen to spend every penny on car mods.
#217
11-02-2011, 07:40 AM
How did it let go? You are in extreme hot climates as well right?
Not hinting at anything but a good amount of the folks whom have suffered metal fatigued piston failures have been in extremely hot climates. i think that plus the amount of boost is really tiring on the pistons. Anymore insight thump?
Not hinting at anything but a good amount of the folks whom have suffered metal fatigued piston failures have been in extremely hot climates. i think that plus the amount of boost is really tiring on the pistons. Anymore insight thump?
I'm 24 also....for me, selling the R56 was the best decision ever money wise.
$8k out of pocket for an engine rebuild on a car that still will never work right, vs $8-10k financeable difference for a car that does work right and does hold its value better than anything out there
On top of it, selling all my 56 mods is adding up nicely...enough to pay off a CC
Every situation is different of course, but trust me, I hear ya. The thought of the 56 motor blowing again, scared me everytime I drove it.
$8k out of pocket for an engine rebuild on a car that still will never work right, vs $8-10k financeable difference for a car that does work right and does hold its value better than anything out there
On top of it, selling all my 56 mods is adding up nicely...enough to pay off a CC
Every situation is different of course, but trust me, I hear ya. The thought of the 56 motor blowing again, scared me everytime I drove it.
Last edited by Bigprfed22; 11-02-2011 at 07:56 AM.
#218
11-02-2011, 07:59 AM
Former Vendor
It seems to me that disregarding the high HP question and all the internal mods that might be needed for that avenue, it looks like replacing the vacuum pump with an electric drive like some GM turbo cars had, would cure the cam gear shearing incidents and if BMW ever figures out the timing chain events, this should be a fairly solid engine.
#219
11-02-2011, 08:05 AM
6th Gear
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#220
11-02-2011, 08:39 AM
How did it let go? You are in extreme hot climates as well right?
Not hinting at anything but a good amount of the folks whom have suffered metal fatigued piston failures have been in extremely hot climates. i think that plus the amount of boost is really tiring on the pistons. Anymore insight thump?
Not hinting at anything but a good amount of the folks whom have suffered metal fatigued piston failures have been in extremely hot climates. i think that plus the amount of boost is really tiring on the pistons. Anymore insight thump?
Broke piston #3...identical to all the pictures in the broken piston thread (somewhere here in the drivetrain section...too lazy to find it though). It was pretty un-dramatic. Was accelerating in 3rd gear, heard a very faint click...no CEL or anything. When I came to a stoplight...car sounded like an STi and had 0 power. I was lucky that I got it covered though
We've seen completely stock cars lose pistons here too, and generally it is always #3 or 4...which coincidentally are also the pistons that are the worst in regards carbon buildup. Lean conditions casued by failing HPFP's that won't get replaced unless the car won't start or a CEL is thrown, combined with crappy 91 octane, high compression+boost, and carbon buildup issues, and hot temps....its just not a good situation. For safety, Water/Meth injection is absolutely essential if you are going to be running higher boost in these cars.
#222
11-02-2011, 09:47 AM
4th Gear
Topped that and some
The numbers quoted are from the crank not the wheels
#223
11-02-2011, 09:57 AM
6th Gear