I hope to drive the '13 to well over 100,000 miles so not worried about recouping, alhough that is a very good point. I would keep my '06 but I really want more power

 

The JCWs ironically do NOT come with the JCW suspension. The JCWs come with the Standard suspension as standard. So just like if you ordered an MCS, you would order the Sport or the JCW suspenion as an option on the JCW model. And just like with the MCS, on the JCW, the JCW suspension would be port or dealer installed. So you have to pay for the install costs.

 

Thanks for the reminder to verify this. When I asked my MA if they have a car with the JCW suspension she said they have a JCW coupe. I will make sure it has the JCW suspension installed before making the drive over there. Don't want to waste a trip.

 

I have the sport suspension. What do you guys/gals think about adding a JCW strut brace on it? Will it help or is it just cosmetic?

 

If the car has Red springs, then they are the JCW suspension springs. If they are black, then the springs are either Standard or Sport.

Actually I was talking with a colleague that has a 2012 Mini JCW Coupe, and he indicated that the JCW suspension is still not available for it. (He wanted to update it for Autocross). But perhaps Mini has sorted that out for the new 2013s...

 

Remember the JCW may not have the JCW suspension. The JCW suspension is an option on even a JCW. You will need to check the options list for it. If no suspension option is listed, it will just have the stock S suspension.

 

I have it and I find that it cuts down on the suspension shakes over bumps. Not a big change but I think the car feels better with it. Otherwise it is cosmetic.

 

pretty and cosmetic IMHO

 

The parts are $1500 (or were, per the configurator), and the installation was another $1500 or maybe $1600. So the total is $3K out the door.

Oh, one more point about my car's setup--I do have the 16" wheels and non-run-flat tires. Those with larger wheels and/or runflats would likely have a harsher ride than my car does.

 

-

 

I'll add my $0.02 here.

The std, sport and the JCW suspensions are, well junk. The Sachs/Boge shocks are rubbish. Cheaply made with valving developed with a butt monkey driving it. Along with springs that don't have enough spring rate.

If you car going to pay for a better suspension, then get a better suspension!

My 2010 MCS with std suspension would crash over expansion joints, (too much high speed compression damping), then sort of wallow around. The back end would like to step out if you hit a bump mid corner. I just thought it was because of the very short wheelbase.

Installed Koni sport shocks, TSW springs, and a Hsport rear bar. Problems gone. Not harsh over expansion joints or potholes, the back end is planted...

I've driven both the sport and the JCW suspension cars, and they still exhibit the same problems. Not enough spring, crappy shocks.

As for cost, since I installed them there was no direct labor cost. I got a pretty good deal and it was about $1000 for the shocks, springs, and bar.

Anybody want a stock MCS suspension with about 5,000 miles on it?...lol

 

I have sport suspension left over too from when I did my Koni yellows/nm springs/hsport rear sway bar. I also added Hsport rear control arms. Major difference in the ride quality and handling. I did mine mostly because I hate it sitting up like a monster truck. As far as ride quality, if you have the yellows you can adjust the stiffness of them. For everyday drving the softest setting is a pretty nice ride, for more aggressive street driving just over the halfway mark is good, and I have not gone full tight in the rear yet but I have up front and it is not unbarrable on the road. I am thinking about tightening all the way up for MTTS but, that might kill me if I do.

 

Hmmmm....$880 for shocks, $220 for springs, $220 - $290 for a swaybar is a bit more than "about $1000" and that doesn't include installation that you get with the $500 Sport Suspension. Not all of us are so talented so as to to not to have to pay to have this installed. So, lets make the comparison fair by adding $500 for installation and you have a suspension that is more like $1800 and you are comparing that to a $500 factory installed option?

Seems like it should be better.

But then you are left with a suspension that is not matched...you still have to have the knowledge to set it up so it doesn't send you backward into the trees on some rainy night when you go into a curve too fast and you screw up any hope of a correction. Let's see, race teams spend months of testing to match and setup a suspension so they get the most out of it without killing the driver. BMW has spent a boat load of money, using people who know what they are doing with suspension design to do the same for the Mini. Yet you can do it better by mixing and match parts and twisting a screw. More power to you that you are that talented. As for me, I think I would rather trust the big money.

 

Some valid points, but not all.

You can find the parts on sale. (or used. anti roll bars and springs really don't wear out.) Or you could get the TSW rear bar, for $190... But anyway, it isn't as cheap as from the factory. So you are right on that one.

BMW/MINI engineers have to get everything past a bean counter, so EVERYTHING is built to a price point.


My local BMW CCA chapter, (you are member right? 15% off parts at the dealer, great monthly mag, driver ed, socials, tours... I've been a member for almost 20 years), has several DIY events at dealerships and Mini service places each year. Use of the facility, tools, and tech help if needed, for almost anything. SO install cost could be free. Or you could ask someone local like me, that could install it for really cheap. ($50 and a box of doughnuts cheap...lol)

As for setup, you really can't screw up a basic Koni and spring adjustment. And the rear bar stiffness is really simple to change. Just install everything close to full soft, and go drive. See what you think, make 1 change, go for a drive.. take notes... Make 1 more change... There is no way it's going to be radical enough to spit you into the weeds anymore than a stock suspension. That's called testing and anyone can do it...

So is it more expensive than the $500 sport suspension? Yes! But it's worlds better too. Look if you are going to track the car, or autocross, or really enjoy driving, you are at some point going to replace the stock rubbish. So why spend $500 up front on something that's going to be replaced anyway.

If all you do is drive to work, and that doesn't involve twisty mountain, or country roads, and you don't track the car, anything more than simple springs and shock is a waste. (I.E. multi-adjustable coilovers...) But the improvment in daily ride quality still makes it worth it.

 

The OEM MINI suspensions that I have felt (haven't tried JCW) were not "matched." They were junk....way overdamped in the high piston speed range and underdamped at the low speed range. So poor ride quality and poor handling. But it did feel "sporty" since most people associate a stiff/jarring ride with good handling (and that's not necessarily true). And the cost to them was surely dirt cheap as they clearly skimped on damper quality.

I don't care how much effort the magicians at BMW spent on them, they didn't do a good job on the shocks.

Sorry for the rant...I might have gotten carried away. I don't like seeing parts perceived as magically better or "matched" simply because of brand name or the company says so, even if it's BMW. A lot of aftermarket stuff is crap for that matter too, but Koni Yellows are very very good.

- Andrew

 

Just a quick point on the Koni (Sport) yellows - Do NOT ever run off the shelf Koni Sports at the firmest setting. They are not designed to be driven on with the firmness turned up ALL the way, and the shocks will blow out in a hurry in my experience. If you want firm, always turn to full stiff, then back it down maybe 1/4 turn.

 

I will give you that buying used and doing the work yourself will save a bundle of money. My point was, however, that to be a fair comparison you need to compare new to new and have someone do the install for you. And, yes I am a member and I have talked to plenty of other members about how to set up a car. I also do most work myself. So for me, your comment works, but it doesn't work for everyone.

Just to offer a counter opinion to the “crap” comment…
The $500 was not for just the shocks. I bought the Sports suspension for the overall package, the balance it provides and not having to do it myself. Works for me, which is what counts.

I have read a lot of the conventional wisdom on this blog and most everyone would say that the Mini needs less front sway bar and more rear bar. However, what this does is to trade rear traction for front traction. This winds up being an unbalanced car with respect to roll stiffness. This is taken as good handling as the back end wants to follow a larger radius in a turn which results in less front push, but it does this with a reduction of traction at the rear. How can this be good? Isn’t one of the objectives of improving the suspension is to increase traction not reduce it? While the BMW Engineers are admittedly constrained by budgets, setting up sway bars and springs doesn’t cost much. This is where they break from the convention of this blog and they put in larger front and rear sway bars along with the stiffer springs. Both the overall roll stiffness of the car is increased (which improves traction at both ends) and the rear to front stiffness ratio is improved (read reduced understeer). Guess what? It works really well for me for both track and autocross. Yes, I do both and while I am not the fastest at either, but I can tell what works better. The Sports suspension works far better than the stock suspension (to be expected) and a lot better than that stock suspension augmented with a 20 mm rear swaybar, Koni FSDs and IE camber plates with -1.6 deg camber in the front. With that setup the car would really rotate, especially with off-throttle oversteer, however it still didn’t have the front end traction that my current Mini has with the Sport suspension and it was not linear as g's increase in a corner. As for on the track the Sport suspension is reasonably neutral, with some push at the limits. It still allows for throttle steering but it calm, linear and much easier to control. Before you ask, in each setup the tires are basically the same extreme performance (205x17 vs 215x17) and the rims are the same width but with offsets of 42 ET vs 38 ET. In looking at tire wear, the roll over is about the same comparing the Sport suspension with the stock alignment (-0.3 deg camber) to the stock suspension with -1.6 deg camber. The tires seem to say the Sports suspension works well.

As for the shock, I’ll give you that the Koni Yellows are better but they are twice the price, without the installation. They better be better. Are the stock shocks “crap”? That might be your opinion. But, then again, some people believe the Koni Yellows are “crap” compared to a set of $3500 AST coilovers. For me, the stock shocks worked fine on a smooth track and on a nasty autocross surface. So, for the price, I’ll stick with stock shocks while they last, after which it would probably be good to consider the Koni Yellows.

Just my opinion.

 

Koni FSD is a replacement shock that isn't designed to used with a lowering (stiffer) spring, so with stock springs you still don't have enough spring rate. I'm not surprised that adding a bigger rear bar had the effects you described. Without addressing the underlying issue of not enough spring rate on the car in particular , and not very good shock valving in general, slapping a big bar in back is really a band aid. on a pretty big wound...lol

And yes the AST's are better than Koni yellow's, as are Moton, Ohlins, Penske, and a couple of others. But they really are race car parts that have a much shorter life span, and should be tested and rebuilt. The Koni yellows are the choice once you start talking shorter stiffer springs. (for a replacement shock, not a height adjustable coilover) Heck my bike has a Ohlins shock, ride height, rebound, high and low speed compression adjustments... and a rebuild every 15K miles... Great shock though.

Anyway, I'm glad you're happy with what you have, if/when you replace them with the Koni's I'd be interested in your evaluation... (but I'm betting you'd say something like, why didn't I do this sooner?...lol)

 

Nah, still not close. I have it on my car. The total for the parts, including the separate springs, was $1300 and the documented install is 4 [*edited typo of 6] hours. Even at $150/hr for labor (overestimating) that would be $600 for install, including alignment, putting you at $1900 out the door.

The estimate you got for parts is high, and the labor is way exaggerated.

 

Never heard that before.

 

Even better is if you look at a shock dyno, most of the change from the rebound adjuster is in the first 3/4turns of adjustment from full soft. The last 1 1/2 turns do very little... But will slightly compensate for wear during the shocks lifetime.
Besides nobody is using enough spring to warrent anything near full stiff on a Mini..

 

Is it just me or is 6 hours at $150/hr not $900? With a total cost of $2200 or is that just new math talking...lol

 

Yes, I may say that! I'll let you know when I do, however it seems you have already made a prediction of my response LOL

My feeling is that while the stock Sport shocks may not be the greatest, I am starting from a better base (stiffer springs and sway bars) from which to upgrade. I am trying to be mindful of the fact that this is my DD and things like ride height are somewhat "fixed" by that.

As for the FSDs, you are right on all accounts. I would also says that, as good as they are on the street, they "can't keep up" with the demands of track or autocross duties. It is like they get confused and don't know whether to be hard or soft and they were always too soft at some point in a turn.

 

Sorry about that, the correct install time is FOUR hours, not six as I typo'd, so the final price I quoted was still correct. Oops!

 

The parts cost was not an "estimate", it was what the on-line configurator listed as the price for the JCW sport suspension option at that time. (It is currently listed at $1416.) The labor charge may have been excessive, but that's something you would have to argue with the MA and service department at my dealer.