I originally thought I was set on keeping a stock car and running my first full season of autocross next year in D-stock. For next year my goal is basically to be as competitive as possible within my local club. I'll worry about nationally later on if I want to go that far.

For my first year on the stock dunlop tires and an H-sport competition rear swaybar I consistently placed 7th or higher out of the 30+ club members based on the PAX system. Sometimes as high as 5th.

For tires next year I will be buying some spare lighter wheels and running Dunlop Star specs in 215/45/17 on my 2012 JCW.

What would be more competitive? Sticking with what I have and the star specs or going to STX and putting on a set of coil-overs (KW V2?) with camber plates up front. Keeping in mind I still want to be able to drive this car on the street. Lastly, will I have to completely re-learn how to drive the car with KW coilovers and front camber plates, or would it just do what it has been doing but only better?

The PAX for D-stock is .821 and for STX its .822.

Oh, I also have the standard suspension, not sport or JCW... But with the rear swaybar.

 

Being in the race for top pax locally isn't that different from competing nationally. The top few guys in your region probably have national experience and prepped cars. If you want to beat them, you also need a prepped car. Driving skill alone won't turn a Chevette into a Corvette. Your pax number is also based on mostly prepped cars, so you are again putting yourself in a hole if yours isn't.

If I were you I'd stay in DS/RTF. Plenty of people will agree that the RT multiplier is soft with slower classes. Cooler weather and asphalt sites also tilt in RT's favor.

Wait to buy Z2s when they come out, and enjoy even more of an edge since the multiplier likely won't change. You'll still save money over the purple crack.

STX pax got bumped up for 2013 just like DS, and you won't be anywhere near fully prepped just by throwing on some coilovers. Real STX cars are not streetable, and honestly the mini is driving the wrong wheels to be class competitive anyway. Besides the absurdly stiff springs you'd want to run, you'd also need to make some specific but annoying changes to get your weight down, and $5k later you'll have a stiff, uncomfortable car that still loses to RX8s. You're also going to have to do a lot of your own development work if you go that route. Bring money for extra springs, bars, tires, tunes, and a real diff.

If you are really itching to modify your car, put the JCW springs and bar in, and Konis if it doesn't have them.

Full disclosure: I jumped into auto-x in street mod and wasted tons of money trying to build a car that was never going to be in the national conversation. I ended up selling everything off and doing (almost) exactly what was needed to build a proper stock class mini. Bending your car to a class is a frustrating way to burn money. Its going to be your first full season, and 95% of the improvement in your times will come from your driving getting better, not anything you did to the car. Keep the car changes to a minimum over the course of the year and focus on the nut behind the wheel. Spend the money you saved on the KWs on another set of tires and an Evo School. Don't make the mistakes I did. It set me back 2 years.

 

+1 to pretty much everything he just said. I've been autocrossing for 16 years, and I've done it pretty cheaply. Haven't been to the nationals, but competed in regionals. After many years, I finally gave in to the fact that I needed an autocross only car if I really wanted to go faster. My back, ears, and pretty much every other sense just couldn't take a stripped out, barely road legal car as my daily driver anymore. Stick with DS for now, build up your skill set, have fun and see where it takes you.

 

I compete in DS right now in my S. I usually place about midpack, because my all season runflats are killing me. I'm going to upgrade to a dedicated set of wheels and tires (Kumho Ecsta XS). I have the upgraded sport suspension but nothing else.

 

Thanks for the advice guys! I'll stick with d-stock then. Would the JCW upgrades and koni shocks make a big enough improvement to justify them?

 

I agree with the other views offered in this thread. I've done a pretty serious STX build, and run within a few tenths of the National pace on my best days, but frankly the Works Cooper gives up a lot in the first 60', and it is hard to make that back in the rest of the course.

I've gone from that wonderfully fast (and semi-streetable) Works car to a Justa, and look forward to having a serious go in H Stock in 2013.

You're probably a better driver than I, but even so at the risk of preaching to the wise it has taken me nine years to learn what I know, and only in the last two has the car been a relevant factor in how I placed - both within class and across PAX.

In the NER, where we normally have more than a half-dozen past National Champions running, my average PAX finish has crept up to about 20 against an average field of 125 drivers. Even changing cars as I am, I must still admit that it's about the driver - and there are several folks in NER that have proven it to me by beating me in my own car.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

Konis are mandatory. No serious competitors are on anything less. They are a big improvement.

The JCW stuff is a bit more debatable, but a high percentage of the field is on it.

Also, what region do you run in? 30 drivers is an extremely small event... and I'm going to make a assumption that the top talent in the area probably isn't regularly attending such events unless you have an amazing site. Are there any other regions/sites within a 90 minute drive or so? Better sites and larger events tend to attract the best drivers. While they will give you a weekly dose of humble pie, they are also invaluable as instructors.

I've sniffed top 10s in Philly region this year but I'm usually in the teens out of ~130 drivers. Its TOUGH to get there vs numerous national trophyists and past champs. If you want to get fast, you've got be around fast people, even if it means getting up a bit earlier on race day.

 

What tames down the dive and squat the most... Stiffer dampers or the stiffer shocks? If I can achieve a much flatter car on acceleration and hard braking with just the Koni's then thats all I need. But I think its more of a stiffer shock that would keep the car from rocking back and forth, correct?

 

Springs made a bigger difference for me then struts.

 

I'd do the shocks first, but if you are taking the suspension apart to install them, may as well do the springs too.

 

Only problem with that is technically I have to do the JCW front sway bar if I want to do the springs as well. I guess if I am never planning on doing anything outside of local events its not that big of a deal...

 

Or get a JCW rear bar and sell your aftermarket one.

I did a write up a few months ago on the front bar swap, its not too bad of a job if you have a garage and have turned a wrench before.

 

That's a thought... What size is the JCW rear bar? Problem with that is the car is really great and fun to drive with the H-sport competition bar. On the medium setting it rotates pretty well. On stiff I think it would be even more fun in a controlled environment.

 

I shall hope to see you at Devens if we host the National Tour again this year - if not perhaps I shall have to travel south.

Kind regards,

Charlie

 

Not sure the exact measurement. My calipers are at work or I'd go measure the one in my tire closet... that I really need to give back to Joe...

I'm gonna hazard a SWAG and say its not a whole lot softer than the mid setting on the H sport. I have mine at full stiff and it still doesn't rotate well, but does occasionally try to kill you when you aren't expecting it.

Word is Jersey Pro at the Meadowlands early in April, and Dover Tour the last weekend in April. I'm going to have to miss Dover if it is indeed that weekend but I should be in Jersey. Meadowlands is an incredible site and somehow doesn't wear Hoosiers. Dover is the exact opposite.

 

From what I have read the rear JCW bar is 18.5 mm. The sports suspension is 18 mm.

My 2 cents...there is more than one "dive" that the car has. There is the front dive when you brake. Springs and/or shocks will help here. Then there is the corner dive. Now I am probably going against the grain here, but the larger front sway bar from either the sports or JCW suspension will help here. I have driven both the stock suspension with a 20 mm rear bar and the MINI sports suspension and hands down the sports suspension is overall better. It is better through the whole course. You can then better balance the car with a larger non-stock rear bar.

BTY - I think Charlie is going to like his sports suspension when he gets going on it.

 

Great thread and great information. This is something I have been thinking about as well. Not to hijack your thread khd but wondering if the Quicksilver exhaust on OutMotoring's site is stock legal or would bump me into STX?

http://www.outmotoring.com/quicksilv...ust-gen-2.html

My understanding is that the JCW can be successful in STX at a local and regional level but not so much at a national one. Look at the results from Nationals for 2012. STX is dominated by BMW's, RX-8's and WRX's.

 

Looking at the results from the New England Region this past year you'll see me driving my heart out against two well driven cars of that ilk - a RX-8 and a 330 ci. Jeff Anderson took the North East National Tour in that RX-8 and the closest I ever came to him in any event was a few tenths.

Sometimes I could beat 1 of the drivers in either car but it was pretty much a scrap for 2nd or 3rd, and I often did not get even that far.

It depends on who shows up - I do have two regional championships to my name with that Works STX car. This year the really fast drivers showed up and put me in my place!

Cheers,

Charlie