R56 Lack of reputable tunes?!?!
#27
08-07-2013, 08:03 PM
There are a couple big reasons more tuners don't tune MINIs.
1st the software we purchase is very expensive and is a big investment for a small group of cars.
2nd there isn't that many customers, the MINI market is very small compared to many other cars on the road
3rd These cars are very adaptive and that has to be taken into account when tuning
4th TIME, it takes time to develop basic tunes, and learn the quirks in the maps that will give you headaches if you go to far or not far enough
5th TIME again, I have a full time business repairing MINIs and selling parts, and we do tune MINIs. We are already scheduled out weeks in advance. These jobs pay the bills and keep the lights on. Custom tunes take time. If the customer isn't local they are going to spend a ton of time on the phone with questions, then over email sending files back and forth. I would have to charge more than anyone would want to pay just to break even on the time lost from other customers. But the money would never make up for the lost customers.
6th Your MINI. You have done a ton to it and it currently doesn't even run correctly right now and already has a tune on it. It's going to need time and work to make it right before even attempting a tune. But you are looking for a tune for it. Customers do this way too often and that just causes them to chase their tails.
After all that tuning just comes down to the basics of air, fuel, timing, temps and so on.
1st the software we purchase is very expensive and is a big investment for a small group of cars.
2nd there isn't that many customers, the MINI market is very small compared to many other cars on the road
3rd These cars are very adaptive and that has to be taken into account when tuning
4th TIME, it takes time to develop basic tunes, and learn the quirks in the maps that will give you headaches if you go to far or not far enough
5th TIME again, I have a full time business repairing MINIs and selling parts, and we do tune MINIs. We are already scheduled out weeks in advance. These jobs pay the bills and keep the lights on. Custom tunes take time. If the customer isn't local they are going to spend a ton of time on the phone with questions, then over email sending files back and forth. I would have to charge more than anyone would want to pay just to break even on the time lost from other customers. But the money would never make up for the lost customers.
6th Your MINI. You have done a ton to it and it currently doesn't even run correctly right now and already has a tune on it. It's going to need time and work to make it right before even attempting a tune. But you are looking for a tune for it. Customers do this way too often and that just causes them to chase their tails.
After all that tuning just comes down to the basics of air, fuel, timing, temps and so on.
#28
08-07-2013, 09:35 PM
There are a couple big reasons more tuners don't tune MINIs.
1st the software we purchase is very expensive and is a big investment for a small group of cars.
2nd there isn't that many customers, the MINI market is very small compared to many other cars on the road
3rd These cars are very adaptive and that has to be taken into account when tuning
4th TIME, it takes time to develop basic tunes, and learn the quirks in the maps that will give you headaches if you go to far or not far enough
5th TIME again, I have a full time business repairing MINIs and selling parts, and we do tune MINIs. We are already scheduled out weeks in advance. These jobs pay the bills and keep the lights on. Custom tunes take time. If the customer isn't local they are going to spend a ton of time on the phone with questions, then over email sending files back and forth. I would have to charge more than anyone would want to pay just to break even on the time lost from other customers. But the money would never make up for the lost customers.
6th Your MINI. You have done a ton to it and it currently doesn't even run correctly right now and already has a tune on it. It's going to need time and work to make it right before even attempting a tune. But you are looking for a tune for it. Customers do this way too often and that just causes them to chase their tails.
After all that tuning just comes down to the basics of air, fuel, timing, temps and so on.
1st the software we purchase is very expensive and is a big investment for a small group of cars.
2nd there isn't that many customers, the MINI market is very small compared to many other cars on the road
3rd These cars are very adaptive and that has to be taken into account when tuning
4th TIME, it takes time to develop basic tunes, and learn the quirks in the maps that will give you headaches if you go to far or not far enough
5th TIME again, I have a full time business repairing MINIs and selling parts, and we do tune MINIs. We are already scheduled out weeks in advance. These jobs pay the bills and keep the lights on. Custom tunes take time. If the customer isn't local they are going to spend a ton of time on the phone with questions, then over email sending files back and forth. I would have to charge more than anyone would want to pay just to break even on the time lost from other customers. But the money would never make up for the lost customers.
6th Your MINI. You have done a ton to it and it currently doesn't even run correctly right now and already has a tune on it. It's going to need time and work to make it right before even attempting a tune. But you are looking for a tune for it. Customers do this way too often and that just causes them to chase their tails.
After all that tuning just comes down to the basics of air, fuel, timing, temps and so on.
#29
08-07-2013, 10:30 PM
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There are a couple big reasons more tuners don't tune MINIs.
1st the software we purchase is very expensive and is a big investment for a small group of cars.
2nd there isn't that many customers, the MINI market is very small compared to many other cars on the road
3rd These cars are very adaptive and that has to be taken into account when tuning
4th TIME, it takes time to develop basic tunes, and learn the quirks in the maps that will give you headaches if you go to far or not far enough
5th TIME again, I have a full time business repairing MINIs and selling parts, and we do tune MINIs. We are already scheduled out weeks in advance. These jobs pay the bills and keep the lights on. Custom tunes take time. If the customer isn't local they are going to spend a ton of time on the phone with questions, then over email sending files back and forth. I would have to charge more than anyone would want to pay just to break even on the time lost from other customers. But the money would never make up for the lost customers.
6th Your MINI. You have done a ton to it and it currently doesn't even run correctly right now and already has a tune on it. It's going to need time and work to make it right before even attempting a tune. But you are looking for a tune for it. Customers do this way too often and that just causes them to chase their tails.
After all that tuning just comes down to the basics of air, fuel, timing, temps and so on.
1st the software we purchase is very expensive and is a big investment for a small group of cars.
2nd there isn't that many customers, the MINI market is very small compared to many other cars on the road
3rd These cars are very adaptive and that has to be taken into account when tuning
4th TIME, it takes time to develop basic tunes, and learn the quirks in the maps that will give you headaches if you go to far or not far enough
5th TIME again, I have a full time business repairing MINIs and selling parts, and we do tune MINIs. We are already scheduled out weeks in advance. These jobs pay the bills and keep the lights on. Custom tunes take time. If the customer isn't local they are going to spend a ton of time on the phone with questions, then over email sending files back and forth. I would have to charge more than anyone would want to pay just to break even on the time lost from other customers. But the money would never make up for the lost customers.
6th Your MINI. You have done a ton to it and it currently doesn't even run correctly right now and already has a tune on it. It's going to need time and work to make it right before even attempting a tune. But you are looking for a tune for it. Customers do this way too often and that just causes them to chase their tails.
After all that tuning just comes down to the basics of air, fuel, timing, temps and so on.
#30
08-07-2013, 11:24 PM
#31
08-07-2013, 11:52 PM
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There are a couple big reasons more tuners don't tune MINIs.
1st the software we purchase is very expensive and is a big investment for a small group of cars.
2nd there isn't that many customers, the MINI market is very small compared to many other cars on the road
3rd These cars are very adaptive and that has to be taken into account when tuning
4th TIME, it takes time to develop basic tunes, and learn the quirks in the maps that will give you headaches if you go to far or not far enough
5th TIME again, I have a full time business repairing MINIs and selling parts, and we do tune MINIs. We are already scheduled out weeks in advance. These jobs pay the bills and keep the lights on. Custom tunes take time. If the customer isn't local they are going to spend a ton of time on the phone with questions, then over email sending files back and forth. I would have to charge more than anyone would want to pay just to break even on the time lost from other customers. But the money would never make up for the lost customers.
6th Your MINI. You have done a ton to it and it currently doesn't even run correctly right now and already has a tune on it. It's going to need time and work to make it right before even attempting a tune. But you are looking for a tune for it. Customers do this way too often and that just causes them to chase their tails.
After all that tuning just comes down to the basics of air, fuel, timing, temps and so on.
1st the software we purchase is very expensive and is a big investment for a small group of cars.
2nd there isn't that many customers, the MINI market is very small compared to many other cars on the road
3rd These cars are very adaptive and that has to be taken into account when tuning
4th TIME, it takes time to develop basic tunes, and learn the quirks in the maps that will give you headaches if you go to far or not far enough
5th TIME again, I have a full time business repairing MINIs and selling parts, and we do tune MINIs. We are already scheduled out weeks in advance. These jobs pay the bills and keep the lights on. Custom tunes take time. If the customer isn't local they are going to spend a ton of time on the phone with questions, then over email sending files back and forth. I would have to charge more than anyone would want to pay just to break even on the time lost from other customers. But the money would never make up for the lost customers.
6th Your MINI. You have done a ton to it and it currently doesn't even run correctly right now and already has a tune on it. It's going to need time and work to make it right before even attempting a tune. But you are looking for a tune for it. Customers do this way too often and that just causes them to chase their tails.
After all that tuning just comes down to the basics of air, fuel, timing, temps and so on.
#32
08-08-2013, 04:58 AM
I called him and he recognized my area code from the phone number and said he used to live in lower Delaware. Well then that led into a lengthy conversation and he got into details about why they got away from them. He is a very nice person. Said once you start screwing with the cars ecu really weird things started making the engine lights come on and it seemed it wasn't the samething on every car and the same fix on one car didn't fix the same issue on another. kinda didn't make sense to me since im not a computer controlled car type of enthusiast.
#33
08-08-2013, 05:07 AM
to waymotorworks, sorry I forgot to mention your name as one that was contacted. didn't mean to leave you out.
to everyone else, I contacted way motor works and he took the time to explain some quirks the mini has when tuning. and when he asked details of the car he also explain how difficult it would be since my car is heavily mod'd, its not that he couldn't do it, it would just take time. he was knowledgable and very honest. I appreciated the honesty in a company. even tho it was a disappointment to here about my car. it was the truth and however to cure some of the issues. WAYMOTORWORKS: thanks for your honesty, if you were closer to me I would have just dropped the car off and said call me when your done. if you couldn't have done anything with it, oh well. that's the way it goes sometimes.
to everyone else, I contacted way motor works and he took the time to explain some quirks the mini has when tuning. and when he asked details of the car he also explain how difficult it would be since my car is heavily mod'd, its not that he couldn't do it, it would just take time. he was knowledgable and very honest. I appreciated the honesty in a company. even tho it was a disappointment to here about my car. it was the truth and however to cure some of the issues. WAYMOTORWORKS: thanks for your honesty, if you were closer to me I would have just dropped the car off and said call me when your done. if you couldn't have done anything with it, oh well. that's the way it goes sometimes.
#34
08-12-2013, 06:54 AM
Thanks for your email.
We are still tuning MINI's in Europe. The USA cars seem to have more issues than we can deal with and this is the reason for not selling into this market at the moment.
Best Regards
Imran Arshad
evolve automotive
www.evolveautomotive.com
UK: 0871 231 1020
Int: 0044 1582 584 000
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#35
08-13-2013, 07:51 AM
might sound like a silly or crazy question since I don't know much about computers except when they screw things up. what would it cost and take for someone/company to take the ECU'S that mini has created to be a nightmare to tune do to sensitivity that I guess/apparently cant be changed and engineer either a new ecu for the car or completely modify the factory ECU with a totally different board or something so it is not so difficult to mess with ?
#36
08-13-2013, 09:05 AM
So is WMW at the point that tuning for 2nd generation MINIs is a go/no-go? Mynes tuning gave us a glimmer of hope for the N14, but stead are doing development for the N18 with their bytetronic. I hate to be so brash, but they really F'd the N14 guys. The N18 seems like more of a tuning nightmare because of the more in-depth encryption than the N14. Not to forget it's a more complicated engine.
#37
08-13-2013, 09:09 AM
might sound like a silly or crazy question since I don't know much about computers except when they screw things up. what would it cost and take for someone/company to take the ECU'S that mini has created to be a nightmare to tune do to sensitivity that I guess/apparently cant be changed and engineer either a new ecu for the car or completely modify the factory ECU with a totally different board or something so it is not so difficult to mess with ?
#38
08-13-2013, 09:09 AM
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This may be a long shot, but I stumbled upon this thread a while ago. This car uses a standalone ECU set up. Not sure if these guys still do anything or how involved in the MINI market they still are....
http://www.minitorque.com/forum/dto_...vehicle&v=1003
http://www.minitorque.com/forum/dto_...vehicle&v=1003
#40
08-13-2013, 10:07 AM
This may be a long shot, but I stumbled upon this thread a while ago. This car uses a standalone ECU set up. Not sure if these guys still do anything or how involved in the MINI market they still are....
http://www.minitorque.com/forum/dto_...vehicle&v=1003
http://www.minitorque.com/forum/dto_...vehicle&v=1003
#41
08-13-2013, 11:07 AM
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SPRINTCARS:
After reading up on the thread about the ViPEC, I actually may go this route. I live out in CO and literally no one will touch the MINI's stock ECU. I have yet to add any performance upgrades (engine is still under warranty) and I'm not going to do near as much as you have, but this may be the best way to get a decent tune. I'm going to talk to PAW as well, but depending on what they say this standalone option maybe the way to go.
Are you going to reach out to these guys and inquire about this product this week? If so would you PM me about your discussion? If you don't reach out to them this week, I will have some time to try to get a hold of them early next week. Would there be any questions you would like me to ask on your behalf?
After reading up on the thread about the ViPEC, I actually may go this route. I live out in CO and literally no one will touch the MINI's stock ECU. I have yet to add any performance upgrades (engine is still under warranty) and I'm not going to do near as much as you have, but this may be the best way to get a decent tune. I'm going to talk to PAW as well, but depending on what they say this standalone option maybe the way to go.
Are you going to reach out to these guys and inquire about this product this week? If so would you PM me about your discussion? If you don't reach out to them this week, I will have some time to try to get a hold of them early next week. Would there be any questions you would like me to ask on your behalf?
#42
08-13-2013, 11:45 AM
SPRINTCARS:
After reading up on the thread about the ViPEC, I actually may go this route. I live out in CO and literally no one will touch the MINI's stock ECU. I have yet to add any performance upgrades (engine is still under warranty) and I'm not going to do near as much as you have, but this may be the best way to get a decent tune. I'm going to talk to PAW as well, but depending on what they say this standalone option maybe the way to go.
Are you going to reach out to these guys and inquire about this product this week? If so would you PM me about your discussion? If you don't reach out to them this week, I will have some time to try to get a hold of them early next week. Would there be any questions you would like me to ask on your behalf?
After reading up on the thread about the ViPEC, I actually may go this route. I live out in CO and literally no one will touch the MINI's stock ECU. I have yet to add any performance upgrades (engine is still under warranty) and I'm not going to do near as much as you have, but this may be the best way to get a decent tune. I'm going to talk to PAW as well, but depending on what they say this standalone option maybe the way to go.
Are you going to reach out to these guys and inquire about this product this week? If so would you PM me about your discussion? If you don't reach out to them this week, I will have some time to try to get a hold of them early next week. Would there be any questions you would like me to ask on your behalf?
#43
08-13-2013, 04:17 PM
As such we currently are unable to offer you a tuning solution
Simon Wilks
Sales Support | Vi-PEC
ANNNDD There's yet another response to an inquiry about tuning the R56/N14 combo, but yet company's are choosing to focus on the development for the N18 which supposedly more difficult. In the words of a well known engine builder named sonny dornberger in the pitman nj area who when picked up heads after we ported them for him " screwing to public still I see !!"
#44
08-13-2013, 04:25 PM
However I did take time to look at the vipec website and look at the dealers in the USA to see who was closest. It happens to be a company in Maryland. Had about a 45 minute talk. And before I could mention issues that come along with tuning these cars he told me what they are and were to draw the line. He mentioned doing some really tricky work with the wiring to fool the computer. He said he has a couple cars out driving around the MD area with no issues and there quite fast with no CEL's. sounds like a lot of headaches once again.
#45
08-14-2013, 05:46 AM
However I did take time to look at the vipec website and look at the dealers in the USA to see who was closest. It happens to be a company in Maryland. Had about a 45 minute talk. And before I could mention issues that come along with tuning these cars he told me what they are and were to draw the line. He mentioned doing some really tricky work with the wiring to fool the computer. He said he has a couple cars out driving around the MD area with no issues and there quite fast with no CEL's. sounds like a lot of headaches once again.
I work for a company that makes fuel injectors and just testing DI injectors requires retooling almost everything. Manufacturing them, which we'll have to do, will be a major investment because they are so different.
Unfortunately, you are looking at a technology gap that will take a few years to close as aftermarket companies relearn their business and produce new products.
#46
08-14-2013, 08:10 AM
You have made a lot of changes to your engine that need to be tuned around... I think it's going to be a headache regardless.
I work for a company that makes fuel injectors and just testing DI injectors requires retooling almost everything. Manufacturing them, which we'll have to do, will be a major investment because they are so different.
Unfortunately, you are looking at a technology gap that will take a few years to close as aftermarket companies relearn their business and produce new products.
I work for a company that makes fuel injectors and just testing DI injectors requires retooling almost everything. Manufacturing them, which we'll have to do, will be a major investment because they are so different.
Unfortunately, you are looking at a technology gap that will take a few years to close as aftermarket companies relearn their business and produce new products.
#47
08-14-2013, 08:26 AM
Other brand and models of cars don't seem to have to issues with the ECU'S like these do. Audi, VW, Porsche, Suburu... they all have plenty of support. 2 guys at work did the same mod's to there cars. 1 audi and 1 suburu. neither one had issues getting ECU support. We just gotta face...your are totally correct, there's a Huge technology gap for this model of car. If you want a cooper to run the best your gonna get is leave the exhaust alone, FMIC, CAI and and a reflash that matches those mods. Nothing more. And your most likely guaranteed to not have any CEL'S. basically it sounds to me the old saying,keep it simple stupid and you'll be fine. I just want more out of it tho, its to fun to drive.
#48
08-14-2013, 08:44 AM
Agreed, I love this car. What I have high hopes for is the BMW engined JCW. That will likely have a lot of support since it will use the same ECU and ancillaries as the new 1 series. Also, based on the DIN sized radio opening in the new base model, they have likely done some de-integrating ala BMW to make the ECU a little simpler for tuners to work with.
I think im just gonna let the bank have this thing and sell the parts off. Its just to big of a nightmare to deal with if you want a killer. I'D RATHER HAVE A CLASSIC MINI WITH A FULL CAGE CHASSIS AND A SMALL BLOCK CHEVY IN IT !!!
wont corner worth a **** tho.
Last edited by SPRINTCARS; 08-14-2013 at 09:20 AM.
#49
08-14-2013, 10:26 AM
But the 07-10 will be stuck with what they have now ? so theres no "good" fix for tho's R56 years ?
I think im just gonna let the bank have this thing and sell the parts off. Its just to big of a nightmare to deal with if you want a killer. I'D RATHER HAVE A CLASSIC MINI WITH A FULL CAGE CHASSIS AND A SMALL BLOCK CHEVY IN IT !!! wont corner worth a **** tho.
I think im just gonna let the bank have this thing and sell the parts off. Its just to big of a nightmare to deal with if you want a killer. I'D RATHER HAVE A CLASSIC MINI WITH A FULL CAGE CHASSIS AND A SMALL BLOCK CHEVY IN IT !!!
wont corner worth a **** tho.
I suspect Evolve will reevaluate their market position somewhat and continue to offer products in the US but the fact is we have engines at the end of their US production life unless we start getting French cars.
If you dig around on the forum, their was a video post recently about a classic Mini builder that featured one with a V-Tec conversion kit. That one would be a sleeper for sure. My personal choice, although I had to pick a different car due to a mandated functional back seat, would be a TR-7 with an aluminum LS conversion.
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