07 mini cooper s hardtop with 66k miles.

a couple months ago while starting the car for the first time each day it would stall. not every day but most. I'd have to give it gas and keep the rpms up for it to stay running. and the exhaust would pop. once I keep the rpms up for 5-10 seconds it will run fine. but over time it seems like its getting harder to get it going, like it stalls more times before I can get the rpms up. and I think for the past month it has stalled every day. once the initial start for the day it starts normal for the rest of the day.

thinking I had water in my gas tank I put vavoline water remover in a month ago. that didn't do anything.

so fast forward another month to a couple days ago. I start the car for the first time that day it stalls like usual a few times. drive 30 mins. stop engine. start engine an hour later. it idles rough, giving it gas the rpm delays. then the yellow engine light comes on where digital speedo is. i look up the symbol, manual says full engine power no longer available. I drive car for a few minutes to another parking lot. I rev it some. light goes away. next day I start the car. stalls like usual. and engine light comes on in the big center speedo.

I have a cheap odb reader so looking at the faults theres 4.

P0300 - Powertrain / random/multiple cylinder misfire detected
P0301 - Powertrain / cylinder 1 misfire detected
P0303 - Powertrain / cylinder 3 misfire detected
B2AAA - Body

I looked at the fuel rail pressure in torque. today during initial stall I watched the fuel rail and it showed 590 kpa after the car stalled and wasn't running. then it changed between 570 and 600 while the car was off between stalls. then I tried starting it for a second time and it hit a peak of 776 kpa during the stall. then back down to 610-620 while car wasn't running. then I started the car and gave it gas to get it running. while running at idle it ranged from 4900-5300. then I turned off the car. it went down to 610-630. started car again, no stall, ran ok. idled at 4300-5200 kpa. I switched the torque app units to psi and while idling it showed 670-730 psi. also, is it normal for the car to idle below 1k?

I know the HPFP is free to replace if its bad. but if its not that and something else. I'll have to pay the $150 diagnostic charge. does the engine light only go off if I clear the faults? if you fix the problem, will the light go off on its own or do I have to clear the faults? I guess it could still be junk in the gas tank or a bad fuel filter.

i took a video of the two first stalls:


noise in the background is cat.

 

Sounds familiar, I just had my hpfp replaced last week. I am now on my third pump on my 07 Hardtop S with 48k. It will only get worse if it is the pump, but in my experience, if it is just starting to fail, the shop has a hard time diagnosing it. Mine took three trips to the dealer for each issue until they finally replaced the pump.
Make sure you drop it off the night before so it sits before they test it. Good luck, I love the car but the pumps are horrible.

 

did your engine light come on? I read they have a hard time diagnosing it if it doesn't come on. maybe I should wait for it to get worse. I don't want them to find other possible things to fix and those not fix it. I have a 3rd party warranty, but that only covers so much. and its a $250 deductible.

hopefully someone can tell me what those fuel rail pressure numbers are saying and if its indeed the hpfp. i have two other videos i didn't upload of it running.

what was yours doing when they finally replaced the hpfp?

 

I never had any lights come on with the pump issues. Mine would start out by just having a hard start every few days, too eventually it took three or four tries along with the pedal to the floor to get it started. Once started it would idle rough for a bout 15 seconds and then the rev's would climb.
My wife rivers it most of the time, and we found the write-up from the dealer from the previous pump failure, and the symptoms were identical.
If you take it in, just ask them to check the pump, they will want to charge $100 if you ask them to check other items and you do not have the work done (diagnosis feee).
With the new pump, it immediately returned to form.
The only time my engine light came on was when the timing chain came off the rails, the other known issue with the 2007's.

 

My 2011 had the HPFP failure. Symptoms were hard cold start, then misfires upon starting. "Half Engine" light on later, along with reduced power warnings, and no turbo. It even cut out/bucked a few times. HPFP replaced under still-existing factory warranty. All is good now, but I wonder how long this "new" HPFP will last. Factory warranty has expired, so I hope that my Hendricks Extended Warranty will cover any future issues.

 

Mine has averaged about 15k a pump, but it does have the 10 year warranty for the pump because of the issues. They were trying to sell me the walnut cleaning for 900, I opted for new plugs and injector/carbon build up cleaner instead.

 

weird. today I started it. stalled like usual. but engine light was off. scanned for faults with torque and the same ones still showed up. why would the engine light be off? drove it for 30 mins, then started it again, drove another 30 mins. checked it a second time and still showed faults but no light.

 

Sounds like a typical pump about to fail, question is which pump is it? The in tank pump has been known to go bad, dealer must test both pumps separately to determine which pump it is. I'm still on my original HPFP at 58k.

 

how would I find out which pump it is? the fuel rail pressure in torque is 600 kpa when the car is off. 600 kpa = 6 bar and I read the engine needs 5 bar to start according to this video:

that being said it seems like its getting enough fuel pressure.

 

Question is do you have 87 psi (600 kpa) when your Mini don't want to start cold. Your first question answered in my previous post. I think one of your pump which ever one is going to die a slow death.

 

it was at 610 kpa between the first and second stalls. theres no reading in torque till attempting to start the car.

 

Yes warm idle RPM is between 750 and 850 rpm depending on whether or not the AC is on. On the N14 fuel rail pressure at idle should be between 780 and 800 psi. Same for the N18 unless you have the newest revision of ECU software from BMW. Seems they have raised the fuel rail pressure at idle to 1100 psi. My guess is to extend the amount of time a worn out pump will operate before showing signs that the average driver would notice. That last observation could be wrong and it's just my suspicious mind but I can't see any other reason for them to suddenly raise idle FRP.

 

thanks for the info. seems like my fuel rail pressure is close to what it should be. is 87 psi what it should be with the engine off?

maybe I have carbon buildup

 

At 87 psi your LPFP is fine. HPFP pressure is a little low. Anything below 730 would make me question the pump unless it's only doing that while the idle is very rough. Two other things to check for is an air leak between the MAF sensor and intake manifold. A small leak will produce a rough start until warm. It the misfire codes are on the same cylinders check your plugs and try swapping the ignition coils and seeing if the error code moves to another cylinder. I've seen coils act up only when cold as they begin to degrade.

 

how do I check for an air leak?

heres the second video I took a few days ago of the second and third attempts to start it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj2Z...ature=youtu.be

 

I'd definitely take it in an have the HPFP looked at. A valve cleaning is also in order. At 66k miles, the valves will be seriously coked with carbon. I haven't heard of many HPFP lasting much longer than what you've gotten out of yours. I'd also have a smoke check done to look for an air leak. The air box and MAF are removed and a smoke machine is plugged into the the inlet and the intake system is pressurized with smoke. If you have a leak you'll see it. Air leaks will always mess with the idle when the engine is cold and if it's bad enough even when it's warm. Maintaining an idle is one of the single most difficult things for an ECU to do and if you ever programmed an aftermarket ECU from scratch the trickiest to get right. You'll also be amazed what a decoke can do. It will feel like a new engine.

 

ok. did the rail pressure in the video look bad to you? cause you didn't the issue was the hpfp before.

what about my engine light being off but theres still faults? also, if I cleared the faults. would stopping the engine and starting again bring them back if the problem still exists? oh, and if I swapped the ignition coils. would I have to clear the faults or would they just change?

thanks for the help.

 

The rail pressures should have immediately climbed upon start up and they didn't. That's why I think you should have the pump looked at. When the engine is dead cold the fuel mixture must be richer. The two most common faults in this scenario are HPFP (not enough fuel) or air leak ( unmetered air entering the intake path). Both cause a leaner condition than the ECU is expecting to see.

The faults are stored until cleared. Some codes will self clear after a few start/run cycles without a repeat of the fault. If I remember correctly misfire codes are not one of them. So yes if the problem persists and you clear the codes it they will come back on next cold start.

 

to swap the ignition coils. theres nothing to unclip first? I just pull on it? then I remove the wire? the wire is held on by a clip? I read its easier to pull the coil out before removing the wire. I'd have to remove the wire cause the coil wouldn't reach to the next cylinder correct?

thanks.

 

Correct. DO NOT swap the leads. Lift on the clip on the coil and the connector will start to disengage. The two lead covers that are on top of the valve cover can also be loosened by pulling forward on the plastic cover from the back and lifting on the front. Once both are loose it's super easy to disengage the connectors. Then pull up on the coil. One finger on the inside where the connectors went while grasping the coil with the other hand. Don't pull up on the lever clip hard or you can break it.

 

thank you. do I need to disconnect my battery positive or negative?

 

For swapping the coils no. It is recommended when disconnecting other sensors such as the MAF, or waiting for the DME to go to sleep. Otherwise the DME will store a fault code.

 

thanks. so I swapped the coils today and the misfires changed. it was misfiring on cylinder 1 and 3. I swapped cylinder 3 and 4 coils, and 2 and 1. cleared faults. then new faults are on cylinder 2 and 4.

seems like I need to order two coils. and the coils that I have are delphi. I assume these coils are not the originals. my car has 66k miles and its already going through a second set of coils? I bought the car with 57k miles.

I read on detroit tuned here: http://www.detroittuned.com/mini-coi...lug-coil-pack/

they say "MINI added Coil-On-Plug technology in 2007 eliminating wires all together to make a better working system. The problem is, and more so in the Coopers than the Cooper S's, is that we found that MINI keeps their spark plugs in longer than they should based on recommended service intervals. That in turn makes the coil pack work harder to make sure the cylinder is working correctly. That then burns the coil out before it should ever need replacing. How do you know if you need a new coil pack? It will give you a SES light (Service Engine Soon), as well a rough idle, and once you read the codes it comes back to a coil pack for cyl. X. A sure fired way to know that it is that coil pack is to move it to another cylinder and see if you get the same code for that new cyl #. We have seen a few Cooper's this year with coil problems at early as 60K. The MINI Cooper S's is not immune to this problem but we have been finding that it is in less numbers and higher mileage. We highly recommend replacing the spark plugs at this time also."

so I'm thinking that when the original coils were replaced, the spark plugs were in bad shape maybe cause of the car using oil. so they put these delphi coils in without replacing the plugs. just a theory. I read that someones mini used more oil when they would keep it near the top mark on the dipstick. compared to keeping it between the bottom and half way area. any truth to this? cause I've been keeping mine topped off. I used half a quart in 430 miles.

I'm thinking I should get all new plugs, and two new coils. the delphi ones are $30 less than the mini. delphi aren't suppose to be bad. do you know if I can mix mini with delphi? I'm thinking I'll get delphi. but I don't know if I can get the same exact ones that I have.

heres two photos of coils from cylinders 3 and 4:

 

Honestly I'd replace all the coils. Start with a clean slate as it were. Here's a shot of the Mini ones I replaced at 64k miles with Ignition Projects coils. Notice the name on the side. It seems Delphi is the OEM for Mini.

 

interesting, so that is the original coil. I was looking on rock auto, and they sell a pack of 4 coils for $22

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/mor...nid=372&jpid=1

i have no idea what I'm looking at in the picture. can the coil somehow be taken apart and bad part be replaced with whats in the picture?