Hello all,


I've read on other threads on here that our ECUs for the r56s learn new aftermarket parts as you drive the car. Is the same to be said about ECU tunes? Does it take a bit of driving for the car to balance out and get comfortable? I ask this because my car runs a tad rough with a tune but I never run the tune longer than 15 mins (tests). Should I just let the car run with the tune for 50 or so miles to let it work itself out? As always all help is appreciated!


Thanks,
Tyler

 

Apologies for the noob question but how are you running a tune for a short period of time and then switching back to a normal ECU set up?

I plan on doing a stage two tune and I am under the impression that once I go Tune, You don't go back.

How did you program it?

What kind of tune is it?

I will likely have many other questions, I hope everyone is willing to entertain them.

 

I am using the alta/Cobb Accessport for my tuning. I'm using the tunes that come with the AP. It doesn't take longer than 2 mins to flash the tune and start driving. I love the idea of it and everyone says its great I just wish I could use it!

Tyler

 

The AP tunes are also subject to the ECU "learning" process. I use my custom tune 100% of the time, and it never fails to compensate for the various problems I create.

If you watch the AP display while changing maps, you'll notice the ECU is also being reset --- all "learning" has been cleared, and you start ready for a new learning experience. Also notice that the "Reset ECU" function will clear any memorized changes.

I never used the various AP "stages", but went straight for a custom dyno tune, this was about 4 1/2 years ago. Been using nothing else. Still get 40+MPG and have more than enough power available when desired, which isn't often.

I strongly suggest you pick a map that matches your add-ons and run it continuously --- quit changing back and forth without also changing the added-on parts.

 

Even a carbon cleaning of the intake valves requires at least 100 miles to adapt, Manic Tunes you can change maps in just 5 seconds from stock, map A, map B and map C. When I cleaned my MAF sensor it took at least a few days of driving to feel a difference, the ECU had read a dirty MAF sensor for 63,000 miles. There's three metal plates that read air temp and air mass, the ECU needs time to adapt. A good tune should never run rough, it's a red flag that should get your attention.

Be very careful which tune you choose to run because those Alta/Cobb Access Port tunes can be stressful especially if you choose the wrong one for the mods that you have and I have heard of more than a few member's that basically ruin their engines by going to aggressive and choosing the wrong tune for the listed mods. Try the least aggressive map and see how your engine runs then, if it's running better at the beginning that should tell you your engine is happy. Listen to your engine because when it's not happy it will let you know.

 

Ive run the stage 1 FMIC 91 oct tune. I have an upgraded FMIC and I use 93 oct fuel. The engine runs completely fine until I get to a large amount of boost (18-20psi) and just cuts boost. That's the only thing keeping me from running it, I can't enjoy the car if it violently jerks when I get to the top end of the rpm range :sigh: that's why I'm afraid to run the tune. I don't wanna ruin my engine.

 

The ECU cuts boost the moment you hit redline, this is normal behavior for the ECU. I experenced the same sudden jerking motion with my stock tune when I hit 6500 RPM's. Another thing regarding the Access Port, not everyone has success with it, it's a hit or miss.

Not all ECU's are going to play nice with it, some people report consistency issues with the tunes while some never have any issues. Rough running or idling is the most common reported issue with the AccessPort.

Perhaps there's a reason why they stop making them and supporting them with software updates.

 

When you say "stock tune" are you saying that with stage 2 and 3 or a custom tune you had better results? Sorry I'm trying to see if its worth keeping.

 

As in stock factory tune that came with the car.

 

Ah ok, I see....I'm not getting it with the stock tune. And sometimes its in even lower rpms, some have suggested it being the built in safety for too high boost pressure. I'm hating that I spent $300 on the AP and can't even use it.

 

People these days are going for Manic Tunes, there reliable and have safety built-in. Most other Tuners don't increase the HPFP pressure, I'm not sure if AP does or not but when you're trying to make more power and your HPFP hasn't been increased for more pressure it limits your tune and power.

I bet that's where your $300 went towards, a more modern tune. Those that have success with the AP are lucky!

 

There's also the possibility that you're getting "boost spikes" --- quick surges over 22PSI. This will initiate the boost cut you describe. There are fixes for this, but when I read about them, I pay little attention --- I already have Boost (or Fuel) Cut Defenders installed. Some have used a Boost Controller, but I'm not sure how it's connected to an OEM turbo.

I hate to see anyone get rid of the AP, they can be a very handy tool. But, as SystemLord points out, Manic is very popular, and there is still a market for used AP's.

 

I was planning on getting a stage 2 Manic tune. From what has been said here and elsewhere, I can rely on Manic's tune being as safe as possible because its a custom tune built around my upgrades by professionals, would that be true?

As far as the "learning process" are you just describing how the ecu needs to adapt to the changes that have been made? Does the vehicle produce more power at the end of the learning process than at the beginning?

 

I read a couple of your posts on the boost cut defender. I'm seriously considering getting one from turbosmart.com. in your opinion do you feel it has a high possibility of fixing this problem? How exactly do they work?

 

I've heard the same about manic tunes but that was after I had already bought my AP not realizing support for them is limited.

And yeah that's what I was referring to, I didn't feel comfortable running the tune like that so I'm still on stock tune. I wonder the same thing as you.

 

The "learning process" as I've experienced it is the ECU becomes "familiar" with your driving habits, and makes smoother adjustments to minor variations. In my case, I do a lot of cruise control driving, so when I drive in town, response isn't as quick. I make it a point to reset the ECU just before a track day, to remove anything it learned getting to the track.
Also, I've experienced leaks in my air induction system, so the ECU makes adjustments to compensate. One time, a hose came completely off and the system kept it running. However, when I shut it off and reset the ECU, it almost wouldn't restart --- the ECU had "learned" the defect and I reset it without fixing the hose --- part of my own learning experience. I was able to limp home and fix it properly.

The two units I have are from a guy in the UK --- NJMunns@aol.com --- almost three years ago. They consist of a zener diode and adjustable resistor that "clamps" the MAP sensors (both of them) to a voltage you adjust it to, and lower than the 22PSI equivalent. PITA to set up but it allows me to get up to 30PSI (and blow out hoses). There are a couple versions available, some more sophisticated than others. Mine are very basic and simple, and correspondingly inexpensive.

Whether or not it will fix your problem depends on whether or not you're getting a boost spike. If your issue is redline, then no, it won't fix it. The FCD only prevents the ECU from seeing voltage over the PSI equivalent you set.

 

Will a Manic or comparable tune be able to successfully prevent the boost spike? Or am I misunderstanding, what exactly causes a boost spike?

 

I'll defer my response to a tuner. My datalogs still show about a 1/2 PSI spike over the FCD settings, lasting less than one second, and I've got a pretty good dyno tune. Altho, this dyno tune was with a max of 20PSI --- I raised the boost and added stuff after the dyno tune. Subsequent AP maps were done from datalogs and email.

I'm guessing that the spike comes from a turbo building boost quicker than the ECU can react with a waste gate or diverter valve signal, but this is just a guess.

 

My problem definitely isn't redline because it happens around (approx) 4500-5500 rpms. Also, would this be what I need? The first one on this webpage. http://www.jscspeed.com/catalog/Universal_Parts/Universal_Tuning_Electronics_Boost_Controllers/Universal_Boost_Controllers/Turbosmart_Manual_Boost_Controllers.html

 

You're looking at Manual Boost Controllers, not Boost (Fuel) Cut Defenders. I don't know how to connect a MBC to an OEM turbo to fix a boost spike problem. Turbosmart also makes BCD's. I know how to use BCD's to fix boost spikes.

Maybe browse the threads to find who used a MBC to fix boost spikes and work with them?

 

As some may be aware the 1.5 bar boost limit is not a hardware issue but is a software function of the ECU. The Cooper S MAP sensor will reliably read 1.6 bar (23psi). The Manic tune disables the 1.5 bar boost cut and alters load dynamically to prevent exceeding the tunes limits. In my personal opinion it's actually easier on the engine to slightly over boost with correct AFR's than subject it to the violent jerking motion of boost cut.

 

Gotta agree with Tigger2011 --- Go with Manic and sell your AP. Adding hardware to fix a problem introduced by previous additions is counter-productive. My MBC and BCD's were added to supplement an aftermarket turbo, not fix a problem.

AP support is practically non-existant. I was able to get my AP custom tunes long before they were discontinued. Manic is one of the best, currently available tunes you can get. It's just a question of time before I open a dialog with a Manic tuner --- lotsa questions about how they'll tune a mess-'o-mods like mine. And, just to cause some trouble, look into the ever-controversial RMW tuner, Jan. Not the easiest guy to work with, but definitely one of the most knowledgeable on tuning a Mini. He's based in So. Cal.