Advice please on Tensioner part# ... ?
2009 Mini Cooper Base Hatchback bought last month with 21K on odometer.

For Preventive Maintanence I am going to replace the cam chain tensioner.
21,500 miles with normal sounding valve train.
Have not measured the chain slack with a gauge device.
The gauge costs more than the price of the tensioner.

Given the low odometer mileage and oil changes done about every 8,000 miles (base/non-turbo);
which replacement tensioner is the popular one to go with? (I'd like to stick with OEM).

OEM choices I found:

A) OEM 11317597895 ; 11314609483; 11317534772; 11317565868; 11317582036; 11317593309; 11317598956; 11317601809
OR
B) OEM 11317607551 (82 mm oversized)
OR
C) OEM 11314609482 (82 mm oversized)

Mini Repair Manual is on the way in the mail, looks like an easy task to replace.
Anything to watch out for? Guess if I was even more paranoid should measure the slack before installing a new tensioner (all sounds normal even from cold morning start up after sitting a few days). May ask my Mini neighbor if he loans tools.
Mechanic friend that works on German cars and another neighbor that races Mini both say the valve train sounds fine. Garage kept, lightly used/driven easy, pretty well maintained by service records.









Thanks,
Ron

 

Thats really low mileage for the chain, the most up to date tensoner is 11317607551 with a new chain kit.

11314609482 was used a a fix for the stretched chain within a slack measurement range. So its just a replacement ( fix ) without replacing the chain.

The MINI tool can measure the slack. Most likely you are fine for the chain and tensinor

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...nsioner-3.html

2009 MINI Cooper ( NON S )

https://www.ecstuning.com/Mini-2009-...Engine/Timing/





Tool: 83300493971

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...and-chain.html

 

Why....
Just listen for it to make noise...
Some last a LONG TIME...
Some don't...
Keep your oil full....and wait...
Guess you could say an entire engine change could be "preventive"....
A thought...
You change a good timing chain+tensioner....the car is totaled or stolen...you got ZERO return...and who is to say the new one could fail faster, they still fail...
IMO don't waste your time and $$ till it NEEDS to be done. Period.

 

P.S.
A common issue on these boards are folks get OCD over issues with their cars after reading about issues...and do unneeded "fixes" that often cause other issues, and waste time and $$.
Be careful when decideing to fix your car that is fine based upon internet armchair suggestions....listen to the guys that wrench on them...and don't fix if it ain't broke.

 

So true, often people end up screwing things up just messing with something that's not broken. There's so many things that the OP can do to make things ten times worse, you're supposed to lock the cams and crankshaft before installing the tensioner because you risk when installing the new tensioner it possible that the tensioner can cause the cams/crank to turn independent of each other. You go to start your car and its out of timing or wrose your pis ton strikes a valve do to the timing being off. The Bentley manual tells you to lock the cams and crankshaft before even removing the tensioner. Listen to your experience Mini neighbor mechanic, it sounds normal.

 

Thank you for all the feedback in this thread. I'm new to working on Mini but not to working on vehicles. For the past 45 years have run the gamut of engine, transmission, differential repairs and rebuilds on many different makes of vehicles. Usually I'm on the side of over-maintenance.

For $20 (half the price of an oil/filter change), in my opinion, replacing the cam chain tensioner early could cause no harm. Better than waiting to hear the "rattle"; when that happens damage is already being done at that point (to chain guides, chain, gears, etc).

Systemlord, where did you read that the crank and cams were suppose to be locked to replace the cam chain tensioner? (this procedure is as simple as screwing in a lightbulb). I am not talking about removing the chain guides, gears etc.
If those other components are still like new (21k miles on the vehicle), no need to replace them.

This is the single part I will be replacing:


If I do not go oversize on the tensioner part replacement, it will leave the chain with the same amount of tension as before. There have been many reports of OEM tensioners on 2009 era Mini binding up early and causing premature cam/chain/guide wear. (piston not moving as freely as it should) Putting a new one in periodically seems to be non-invasive with no chance of "making things worse".


I AM NOT PLANNING ON THIS APPROACH BELOW: ... (since at 21k miles not likely needed)
If the cam chain has worn/stretched and chain guides are still in good shape then there is an option of putting in an oversized tensioner which I agree is more invasive and could lead to more stress on the chain itself ... which I understand is a fairly lightweight chain in the Mini.
-OR-
If the chain guides are worn out or broken this means that the whole chain/guide/tensioner/crank-gear assembly should be replaced as a unit (kit ECSTuning posted pic of above).
(at 21k neither of these scenarios should apply in my situation).

Is there something dire I am missing about this task or off base here concerning the simple replacement of the tensioner shown below?
It would be good to measure chain slack, just to confirm still in specs, if I could find someone to borrow the Mini tool from, that task takes about a minute.


Thanks,
Ron

 

The longer tensioner was a stopgap measure for dealers to delay replacing the chain...cars that need the tensioner have excess slack, aka chain WEAR, usually from low oil levels...
The problem is mostly on the S cars...tensioner issues are rare on a non s with the n14/n16 motors...
Do what you want...it is your car and your $$, but IMO if it needs the longer tensioner, then you need a chain kit...it was just a way to limp the car to the next revised part or the end of the WARRENTY....
There was multiple revisions to parts on the early n14 cars...nothing seemed to work...BMW was desperately trying to limp cars along till better parts came out...the longer tensioner is NOT A FIX.

 

I've replaced just the tensioner in 2 cars that were noises at my friends shops since they are scared to work on them. Solved the problem on both cars.

 

I'm just replacing the tensioner because it is a wear item and there are reports that the piston in the tensioner can bind up and put added wear on the fragile setup in 2009 Mini. Perfect, no stressful noises on this engine at 21k miles. Even though it is N12 (non Turbo) engine, I still want to confirm the tensioner is in excellent shape and go with a new one for a minor cost of $20.
This Mini engine runs amazingly smooth and quite at idle, plus it shifts like butter ... unlike my 2014 Camaro SS 6.2 Liter which roars and shakes the whole car at idle, and has a harsh clutch/drive train, ha ha.
So far the Mini is a blast!
Ron

 

I am not sure if the MINI will do this, but if the tensioner is removed on other engines, and a cam is sitting in a position where it is loaded with valve spring pressure, the cam (or cams) could move. This could possibly cause an issue. I would think that putting the new tensioner in would just move the cam(s) back to position, but who knows? If too much slack is created, there is the possibility of skipping a tooth or more on a sprocket. I would leave it alone, with such low mileage, being a non-S, and no nasty noises.

 

The Bentley manual clearly instructs you to lock the cams and crank when installing or removing the tensioner because when installing a new tensioner there's a risk when inserting the new tensioner, you could push on the chain causing either the cam and or the crank to turn, if this happens your cam and crankshaft is now out of timing and you risk the valves not being in sink with the crankshaft which could cause your pistons to collide with the valves or your engine just won't start.

Hey do you know how many threads I have read where a member changed their tensioner and the engine won't start, a lot. For all you know the tensioner that you're about to install could fall prematurely and you could be better off with the one that's in there, you're rolling the dice on sone thing you describe as smoth as butter. Its not logical, it's out of fear reading other member's horror stories that has you making rash decisions on a base Cooper.

It's the S model that seems to suffer from the tensioner issues, sure some base models have had issues, but that's with any brand car. This forum has a way of scaring the hell out of people that shouldn't be concerned that act irrationally. Your Mini guru that's experienced with Mini's told you it's perfectly fine, that should have been it for you.

 

It is this reason why you lock the cams plain and simply, perfect example!

 

not sure why you would need to lock the cams to change the tensioner. Due to the fact the timing chain has x number of links between the cams and crank, this will not change, when the tensioner is pulled. As the tensioner is on the slack side. Why people have problems staring after messing with an engine can be infinite reasons. I agree the Bently talks about locking cams, but in a timing chain change situation maybe? Timing goes out on these motors due to change stretch, distance between links or guide failure. Slack side of chain will cause noise due to slapping when loose. The cams are driven or pulled on the opposite side (front of block) by the crank ( clockwise rotation), this distance will not change, unless you have failure. This is my opinion based on rebuilding motorcycle engines, where timing is set by counting links between cams and crank, tensioner only takes up slack. I could be wrong of course!

 

Hmmmm, PaScrambled your post makes sense. Systemlord thanks for warnings in your previous post. I will do some more research.
How about this example: ... say someone wanted to just measure the cam chain slack. They pull out the old tensioner, install the measuring tool and record measurement, then put old tensioner back in. In this situation you are indicating the cam and crank should be LOCKED FIRST before hand???
I really do not see how the chain would jump teeth in this case if not locked. A few minute procedure would instead turn in to quite an ordeal (mechanic would need to get a locking kit, pull valve cover, disconnect more stuff for access, new valve cover gasket, etc.) I've read many threads here and did not run in to the warning about locking the cams and crank, and pulling the valve cover when doing a simple slack measurement on the cam chain. So, back to reading more about this and looking at the Service Manual when it arrives. Will also email my buddy that races and wrenches Mini to see if he has some feedback about whether lock is needed when measuring slack or not, and post his feedback here.
Thanks,
Ron

 

That chain can jump. DONT NOT TRUST THAT IT WONT !!! The cam gear teeth are not cut deep enough the stop it from jumping. With the tensioner out, I can take a wrench and turn either cam and it will hop across the teeth. Look at the teeth. They are very tall at all. And the aren't pointy like a dirt bike. They don't come all the way through the chain.

 

Sorry folk, iPhone auto correct got me.
The one sentence is suppose to say.
They aren't very tall at all.
And, I've don't this job countless times. And couple without the tools. I've burned a valve with nitrous on Saturday, ripped it apart, valve job Monday at work, back together and running on Thursday. They will jump my friend. I used to get the cams inline by using two wrenches a second person and vise grips. I aligned the exhaust by letting it jump a tooth or two when it wasn't right. Then I bought the tools. Save yourself the headache. Your gonna be in this thing more than once I guarantee. It's 5 minutes to get the intake and valve cover off.

 

thanks for a good reason, I trust what you state, as you have done more to this engine then I ever will. As I stated, I could be wrong. Really any cam chain can jump, just set and monitor, if it happens, oh sh*t, I screwed up. Reason I always have the cover off when playing with the timing chain on twin cam engines.

 

Borrowed Chilton Service Manual.
The procedure they show does NOT specify locking the crank and cams for simple tensioner replacement. Getting varied opinions here.
So, tensioner replacement is on hold until I get further confirmation on how invasive/ non-invasive this task is. Hopefully as simple as removing a bolt like what Chilton shows without drama, ha ha.

Again, this is preventive maintenance only (21k miles), not a daily driver ... because these tensioners can fail not wanting to wait for that to happen before replacing (price of new one is so cheap).
Cam chain mechanisms usually last 200,000 miles easily on most other vehicles so a bit surprised hearing this is a weak link in the Mini engine (and cam driven vacuum pump can contribute to trouble also).

However, if replacing the Vanos (variable valve timing mechanism) -or- the timing chain, the service manual does specify locking the crank and cams and shows the process and special lock tools. (getting pistons set to 90 degrees in order to keep valves from hitting pistons on this interference type engine is big concern when removing Vanos solenoid on the Mini)

Still waiting to touch base with my buddy on his experiences with the Tensioner and his friends that rebuild and race Mini.

Looking around the engine bay so glad I talked my son in to the Base version vs. trying to do maintenance on a S Turbo or supercharged (DI) with all the added complexities of things to foul and break and access issues.
This one is a keeper, he has a blast driving it even though it does not have extra boosted hp (he's been in the hospital this past week so Mini maintenance on hold).



Ron

 

ECSTuning sold me part 11317597895 on August 20 and I still have not installed it because of threads like this. It makes me nervous.

 

You are a step ahead of me ... haven't ordered the tensioner yet. I'm not in immediate hurry either.
Ron

 

Chilton service manuals used to be very informitive back in the 90's, but now is a different story! Most buy the Bentely manual because you get what you pay for, invaluable accurate information. The Vanos has no physical connection to the camshafts when the engine is off, it uses oil pressure (hydraulics) to control the flow of oil to advance and retard the timing of the camshafts.

 

You can return it if you want, that's the older 78 mm tensioner right before the SS to the newest 78mm 11317607551 for a complete chain kit, or the 11314609482 as the fix 82mm ( longer ) tensioner. There is info on that further up in the thread. MINI changed the tensioner's allot and last couple years.

 

Does the Bentley Manual specifically state that the cams and crank must be locked for Tensioner replacement (simply taking out the chain tensioner bolt and putting a new one in)?
Again, in no hurry here ... doing due diligence research before doing this pm task (Chilton does NOT specify locking in the procedure).
Thanks,
Ron

 

Are you actually reading my replies? Are you actually taking anyone's advice? It would seem not...

 

System....... You can lead to water but can't force to drink. Relax dude. You can sit back and have a beer, your car runs. Just watch the fireworks bro.