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Mini Cooper Base 2010
62k miles on it
60K Car Service warning is ON (I'm waiting for the serpentine belt to change it to reset it. Coolant, Oil, Brake fluid, transmission fluid and spark plug are changed more often than MINI requiriments).
Since 10 days ago, every morning when I attempt turn on the car (the first attempt), it seems the car is started but I can hear that it has a little problem (like the car is trying during 1 second to turn off the engine while the engine is on).
The second attempt ALWAYS is perfect and succesful.
It occurs after many hours of being off (engine off overnight, totally cold).
It seems that when the day (night) is colder, the problem is worst.
On sunny and hotter days it seems the "issue" is minor. It seems.
Today (a rainy and cold night and a cold morning), the car directly did not start on the first attempt. The second attempt was perfect.
1) The car always sleeps in garage.
2) K&N conic air filter changed every at 60k
3) Spark plugs were replaced after the problem starts (they were replaced always every 30K miles). Iginition coils seems to be clean and OK.
4) Fuel filter was successfully cleaned for me. It was not dirty. (I have the fuel filter in the pump that is inside the fuel tank, I have not a independent fuel filter under the rear seats). Problem persist.
5) There is not a battery problem, battery moves the engine OK.
6) Octane additive with hard driving was done.
7) Injector cleaner with hard driving was done.
8) As I said above, the second start attempt always is more than perfect.
9) There is not any problem with aceleration from 0 nor while driving.
10) There is not error codes stored on the car
I'm using Torque Pro app since some time ago but fuel pressure and fuel rail pressure is not available. It seems there is not info from the OBDII/ECU.
I have use experience with INPA and Rheingold.
Is this a sign of HPFP beginning to die?
There is another checks that I can perform to detect the issue with the "first start attempt"?
Do you have a CEL? A bad HFPF will exhibit misfires and cold start issues. From what I've found with HPFP failures, what happens is that there is a vavle that fails inside which basically allows for a lack of sufficient fuel to the injectors causing misfiring. When is the last time you did a basic tune up? Filters, plugs, etc?
Some stored codes dont come up on some scan tools, ours shows them all. : You will see a misfire code stored multiple times, most of the time with a HPFP in early stages.
Do you have a CEL? A bad HFPF will exhibit misfires and cold start issues. From what I've found with HPFP failures, what happens is that there is a vavle that fails inside which basically allows for a lack of sufficient fuel to the injectors causing misfiring. When is the last time you did a basic tune up? Filters, plugs, etc?
No, there is not a CEL nor error codes related to fuel/injectors/misfires.
Last weekend before cleaning the fuel pump filter (in the fuel tank) I have checked again looking for error codes without success (it is like all is OK in the car).
Plugs replaced two days after the problem started (I thought that was the problem since the plugs had 30K running).
Air filter replaced for another one (new, I'm not friend of "cleaning" air filters) 2 months ago.
May be there is others things to change/check?
No, there is not a CEL nor error codes related to fuel/injectors/misfires.
Last weekend before cleaning the fuel pump filter (in the fuel tank) I have checked again looking for error codes without success (it is like all is OK in the car).
Plugs replaced two days after the problem started (I thought that was the problem since the plugs had 30K running).
Air filter replaced for another one (new, I'm not friend of "cleaning" air filters) 2 months ago.
May be there is others things to change/check?
Thanks
There is a good thread about symptoms people exhibit with HPFP failures HERE. It has some really good info that you can check out. It seeming to be worse on colder days as your vehicle requires more fuel to start the colder it is. So, if you feel up to it you can check this way. Plug in your scan tool and look at the low pressure value and check high pressure set point/spec and high pressure actual. With low pressure value in spec, if the set and actual are the same/pretty close it's most likely not the pump. With low pressure value in spec, if the set is higher than the actual then it is probably the pump. If your low pressure value is not in spec it could be a filter, pump, or relay issue.
Yes, I could see that's is one of the main signals of a bad HPFP but is not sufficient to determine that the pump is bad or is the real problem.
I think what I need is to check the fuel pressure in the engine rail and in the in-tank pump (both pumps pressure) before and during starting engine to determine if really the problem is there.
Originally Posted by ECSTuning
Some stored codes dont come up on some scan tools, ours shows them all. : You will see a misfire code stored multiple times, most of the time with a HPFP in early stages.
This is a picture and text is from our fuel pump testing tech article that shows you what I'm talking about as well.
You can check the high pressure system on turbocharged models using a MINI scan tool. Use the scan tool to view DME, then fuel pump / pressure. Look for the rail pressure set point (desired) and rail pressure actual. These two values should be pretty close. If it's off by 10 bar, I would suspect a faulty high pressure fuel pump.
This is a picture and text is from our fuel pump testing tech article that shows you what I'm talking about as well.
Thank you, I have readed that guide on your website in these days (replacing the HPFP) while trying to unplug some fuel line connector in my fuel tank.
So I would need to buy the Autologic scan (in the picture) to check the fuel pressure where I need to check it (engine and tank)?
Mi MINI is not S model (Cooper Base model).
Thank you, I have readed that guide on your website in these days (replacing the HPFP) while trying to unplug some fuel line connector in my fuel tank.
So I would need to buy the Autologic scan (in the picture) to check the fuel pressure where I need to check it (engine and tank)?
Mi MINI is not S model (Cooper Base model).
Thank you again!
Ah! I apologize, overlooked you have a base and not an S. Then you do not have a HPFP. Only the S does. Your issue would not be a HPFP issue.
Yes, I could see that's is one of the main signals of a bad HPFP but is not sufficient to determine that the pump is bad or is the real problem.
I think what I need is to check the fuel pressure in the engine rail and in the in-tank pump (both pumps pressure) before and during starting engine to determine if really the problem is there.
Could I check the rail pressure and in-tank pump pressure with this tool (VIN T003915)?
Thanks!
Welcome.
No direct injection on the Cooper ( NON S ). So the only thing else it could be is the fuel filter or the main pump. But you said cleaned the filter, did you reseal the filter and pump back in ok ? If its not sealed all the way in , the system can suck air back inside and then not prime the rail.
No direct injection on the Cooper ( NON S ). So the only thing else it could be is the fuel filter or the main pump. But you said cleaned the filter, did you reseal the filter and pump back in ok ? If its not sealed all the way in , the system can suck air back inside and then not prime the rail.
Yes, I have cleaned the fuel filter only because the cold start issue.
The problem was there before the fuel filter cleaning.
I have the rear fuel pump with the integrated filter version (there is not the filter on the other side under the rear seats). This was done 50K ago in the same way without problems.
What means that I have no direct injection on my Base Cooper (non-S)?
When you say "main pump" it is the HPFP or the fuel pump on the fuel tank?
No front HPFP on the R56 NON S , just the rear main pump. If the fuel filter was not installed correctly with the seal, you can have start issues.
OK !
Then, there is no way I have a HPFP issue since I have not a HPFP
That's the best news I could have. Thanks for the info and sorry for my ignorance.
I have cleaned the integrated filter 2 times:
30K miles (1 year ago)
2 days after the start issue (the issue was present before the second clean).
Then I should check for a new in-tank pump P/N 0975 0560 9900 but at RealOem the pump is not my fuel pump (there is not my two plugs):
Well, after discovering that my MINI Base does not have HPFP (thanks ECS and PelicanParts) there is only one free test that I can perform.
It is possible that one of my ignition coils is not working and the error is not being registered o readed by Rheingold (or Mini have a virus on the cars that says: "if you have not done the service 2, then the cold start must fail" ).
Before buying a new fuel pump I can test the ignition coils and wires for free.
I have seen on youtube that BMW owners test the ignition coils by disconnecting every ignition coil with the engine on idle.
If the RPMs fall, the ignition coil is OK. If not, the ignition coil or the wire is bad.
To check if it is the ignition coil or the wire, you must exchange the ignition coil with another position.
If you disconnect the "bad" ignition coil and the RPMs fall, the ignition coil is OK and the wire is the problem. If not, then, this is the prove that the ignition coil is the problem.
Here my problem this morning.
Today the first attempt failed completely.
Sometimes the engine ignites in 300/400 RPM for 1 second and then, engine returns to normal RPMs (normal RPMs in a normal cold start like you can see in the second attempt).
Second attempt is always (I repeat, always) more than perfect:
Yea, i bet its the pressure in the line, maybe form the slow pump or that the system is getting air back in it. When its up to pressure it starts right up.
Yea, i bet its the pressure in the line, maybe form the slow pump or that the system is getting air back in it. When its up to pressure it starts right up.
OK. I do not remember doing any work the night before the issue started so I can not imagine what things can cause the system to get air on it (thinking in the fuel pump working fine).
I do not understand why the system does not record an error related with low fuel pressure (or bad fuel pump, etc), every time I try to turn on the car and the engine can not start (I think it should record that).
I'll check the fuel lines, vacuum line, etc on the engine.
Then everything seems to indicate that (as you are saying) it is the fuel pump damaged.
Yea, it might be enough to trigger it because it get some pressure , just not all at one. Let me know if you can smell a little gas around near the tank seal.
No, sorry for MY ignorance about the no HPFP on non-S MINIs and thank you for your answers as always.
No worries! We are all here to learn about MINI, so glad I could help. You can still check the low pressure value and see if it's in spec. If it's not it could be a filter, pump, or relay issue.
04-06-2016, 06:30 AM
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