now after the third attempt timing my r56 turbo. Was wondering if there are any other things that should be added to the procedure that I will be doing. Mainly I have been doing it by the book and videos online, and the occasional shot out to some of the wholesale suppliers/mini shop performance specialist which did not really render anything valuable.
On the third attempt I incorporated one of the suggestions here. It was to tighten the crank bolt last; it did not work(nothing else has really either so no biggie at this point(just purchased another set of exhaust valves). On my Mini it seemed to not like the crank bolt last procedure(it only lasted thirty seconds before the timing went. where as the other two times I tightened the crank bolt first. But I did do a 180 degree pull on the exhaust cam gear and that part did stick(I pulled the valve cover and saw the labels were still timed just the crank gear slipped. I also made a special plate and quick gripped it to the adjustable rail coolant service procedure. The plate is used with my socket wrench so it maintains 90 degree's due to the fact I am timing the engine in the car and need a short extension.
I know who ever reads this is saying well what good would that do you. WELL. I found out the crank bolt takes more than two 90 degree pulls on my socket wrench to turn 180 degrees(I marked the top of the bolt after the rated torque spec for the crank bolt. I was animate about the idea that it is still probably not going to work because this is the first time trying to tighten that bolt last(the plate which is a tool I invented I have not seen on the market and will later show pictures of it here. even if I have to scrap the car because I can't manage to get the car timed.
So back to square one. I will do the timing in order as per the book starting with the crank bolt and the plate I fashioned. I have made sure to buy a N14 timing chain this time. I have bought a new crank and oil gear this time. I have a new hub and harmonic balancer and will also be replacing the oil chain this time.
gonna do the valves myself this time sense it was done at a machine shop and has new valve guides pushed in it already.
So if there is anything anyone wants to add whether it be parts (I have a new cam gear vanos is in spec and new guides.) or if there is anything procedure wise like making sure the oil chain is lubed (because I really have not been doing that although one of the times I did and it did not seem to be remarkable due to the high pressure oil pump. If anyone wants to comment on the weather; should I do it in the cold this winter instead of the heat? I would like to know.
new gears new chains this time and new bolts like before.
Is there stuff like shims in the hub or jb weld on certain area's? I'm ready to get nasty this time.

 

Am going to hazard a guess that the new hub and sprockets will make all the difference. I have read another thread where the hub was slightly off centre and nothing would keep it torqued up. I do not believe the ambient temperature makes any odds. For my successful chain replacement I did the crank bolt first so I do not think that makes any odds either. Good luck!

 

personally, I always do the crank bolt last, 50Nm then 180 deg.I also in some instances reused the sprocket and even the bolt for that matter. Just to be sure, you are using the locking tools, right?

 

That does not really answer the question. do I need to jb and shim the gear I see no reason for the gear and hub being loose aside of the fact that it forces the gears into the critical seat of the computer,valve train and mechanical maps. Something that a slow curing JB weld would take care of after letting the car sit 24 hours after reaching a suitable idle with advancement from the computer map.

 

Maybe study this before you attempt again?


https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...mshaft/Q3LXg1u


If you are using JB weld, creating your own tools for the job or worried about ambient temperature as to when to do the procedure, your head is not in the right place.

 

Ooops.


Meant to give you this version.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...aft/1VnY7d2Xnh

 

this still really does not explain touch on anything I have not already tried I positioned the crank holder device affixed as I tightened the bolt down the first two times.It did not hold under full rpm. though it did last a couple of days on jack stands and a 15 minute drive. No I really think it needs jb weld on this time I have thrown enough money at it for a while and really need it to run rather than have some dicey concept with no real guarantees. It's not rocket science at this point and it's time for me to stand up like the owner of this mini cooper like I am and do what I need to do to make it run.

 

Well, I guess you are going with glue/threadlock, but try this at the same time if you can, use another torque wrench and socket. Why? when I did mine the first socket actually ruptured such was the force required to get it torqued up correctly. I would be out of options too by now but would try this 'just in case' my tools were faulty. I wouldn't be depending upon glue for such an important bolt but then you have the 'need'.

 

Did you replace the crank bolt/cam shaft sprocket bolts? These are supposed to be one use only.

Are you using the special tools for keeping the cam shafts in place?

Are you using the special tool to lock the crankshaft in place?

Are you using the special tool (or one you made) to provide counter force when you torque the crank bolt?

 

Did you read his thread? He has answered all these already.

 

I know of a contraption others have used as insurance......... let me find the thread.



https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...r-rebuild.html

send op of the above thread a pm and he can tell you where this came from. I understand your frustration but putting JB weld on a bolt of that nature is not what I would recommend.

 

I got mine from my tuner, Eurotechs in tempe, AZ. Since then, he posted this on FB, apparently CravenSpeed is a commercially available source. There might be others too???

 

Using a new socket wrench is a good tip. something either more rugged or with smaller teeth. But the idea I am cheating on not getting one was very perceptive of Scudder44. I will stand down from that argument and suck it up and cough out the money for one before the time comes to put that stuff on. Scudder44 knows we are all just gonna do the job and back in the grey area our tools wear over the years and could probably make a 25$ fifty piece tool set look like a snap on kit. thanks for reminding me I will sticky note that one.
I also want to thank everyone that said the job is not that hard follow the book. Because of the idea it HAS GOT to do with what the books say and dealer notes say about it; along some line at the very least.
I did a through break down of my head. When I first bought the stuff to do the job back in may or june I did it because of a water leak. Did not want to sweat the idea the head gasket blew out. So I went in to change it. now I am setting up for my fifth attempt. Yes that crank bolt capture looks real good. I want one. But,
breaking down my head I found that two of the intake valves were bent on the stems and appeared to be normal. Just the exhaust valves I kept changing So to make a long story short(and maybe with the help of all you make this thread alot longer). Those two valves were the very first things that I bent. My theory is that it happened the very first time I changed the head gasket. I pulled the head changed the intake valves because the original were dirty I oiled them did not grease them or lube them up to help in the valve guides, but that is aside of the point. the head gasket I installed that first time was .70 which is .20 smaller then what is required for a n14 without machine shop work done to it(which i did not have done the first time; i was confident it was square had the car sense brand new and really did not want to take it to a machine shop.
SO!
That gasket proved to me NOW that the non interference side of the head conflicted with the pistons during throttle the first time. At which time the exhaust cam bolt slipped and wrecked the valve according to what I discovered after removing the valve cover and seeing the label for the exhaust no longer matching with the intake side. Point is my theory that there is .20 thousandth forgiveness between the exhaust valves and the pistons is true. It's not forgiving in the intake valves where the vanos staggers the timing.
Either way wrong head gasket to begin with failure to replace all eight intake valves along with exhaust valves(only two of the intake valves were bent at the stems, but I will still replace all of them). HEAD GASKET TOO THIN.
So now the friction issue should be taken care of on that end. but I will still go through other sub system of the engine to make sure. Because that crank bolt turns 6 items(timing chain,oil pump,water pump,alternator,ac compressor,crank pully,
the Crank bolt capture looks like a good device but what of everything else like my new hub has a micron worth of indent from the previous attempts at installing the timing chain. HOW much of these items need to be seasoned before they hold the gears in place being the timing and oil pump gears? Im thinking about using seasoned bolts that I have used on previous attempts aside of the exhaust cam bolt which I turn at 130 degrees after torque value and not 90 degrees.

 

What you consider "seasoned" I consider "worn out", especially the stretch bolts used to set timing. Re-using these almost guarantees another timing failure. Your "--- new hub has a micron worth of indent ---" is probably caused by the bolt working loose, allowing it to slip before timing got too far out. Any "indent" means less surface for mating parts to adhere with, and more likely to fail again. This crank timing system relies on friction to retain the settings --- bolt tightness and surface cleanliness is everything.

 

Using the correct products to clean my very own brand new hub(not a used hub);and preparation are a discussion in them selves it is a pricey part to own and just taking some ***** hundred grit sand paper to it do not intice me to follow through. Saying that everything is a one time use regardless of what it is I disbelieve. Also Have seen stores selling used bolts for those parts. Also not taking a bolt to its specified torque limit the first time would tell me there is more torque for the application left inside the bolt. Now if I installed a bolt and it met or exceeded the spec torque then I would wonder about it. But if they were really really that needed for the application they would have them everywhere down at the auto parts store and everywhere else.
Does anyone know if I can send my crank off to have a keyway cut for it. Or any kits that might be able to make light of the situation. I really want guarantees on this.

 

Well, this pretty much explains to me the title of this thread. Maybe you should do some research on TTY / stretch bolts, to learn how and why they function. But regardless, there have been a couple threads where someone mentioned having keys cut in the crank. Unfortunately, I can't remember which threads, or when / who it was. Maybe take the crank, sprockets, and other associated parts to a machine shop and explain the problem. They should have no problem cutting the keyways.

 

I did talk to the machine shop they just do the general stuff. No welding. they said to talk to mini cooper dealership about how they do that crank bolt. I see someone here showed a crank bolt capture. but I have yet to find one maybe in the UK or the north part of the United States like Seattle or Chicago no other places really for mini cooper maybe North Carolina.
O course I am all over the BMW M3 one piece hubs they sell. I do know of a custom machine shop but they favor big contracts for conveyor belts and stuff like that. No one hit wonder hot shot gonna get one minute with the custom machine 5 Axis cnc shops where I live. there are just way more important things for these places to work on around here. So welding or somehow finding the one piece hub is my best bet.
Maybe if someone here knew. There has to be a way for me to get this coooper running again. and jb weld would be like nothing to a crankshaft at 6000 rpm.

 

If you go to the point of welding the hub to the crank you're going to be adding an unbalanced weight into an engine designed to operate with the crank hub bolted to the crank shaft alone with torque.

Maybe your threads are shot on the crankshaft and it won't work regardless.

 

Yes I read the thread or I wouldn't have responded. He's using a tool he made which may or may not do the job correctly.

 

Here's my source for the first one made --- https://www.facebook.com/EuroTechs not sure if he has any more in stock. There's also another one available from cravenspeed.com --- the red one. Both are pretty easy to install, don't even need to loosen the belt tensioner, as long as you're careful.

 

the options look pretty slim to none. It appears I have another issue I don't know if it is normal or not. Before I was using a wrench on the camshaft and not on the cam lock bolt part on the gold part bolt that turns the vacuum pump. Apparently it screws on and off.. does anyone know if this is normal.

 

Both cams have "squared-off" sections for wrenching, and applicable procedures in the newTIS website use them. I can't comment on the vacuum pump 'cause mine is still OEM, and I've yet to play with it while it was out for previous rebuilds.

 

I was referring to the titanium drive on the end of the cam that the vacuum pump gear fits into. So that it can be powered. It appears to be able to screw in and out of the camshaft.
The squared off sections are not actually squared off; they have a fourth side that is curved. So the cam locks can only go on in a label up label down postion. And we all know that labels need to go up.
It really does just seem to be the crank bolt that is drifting on me know. I am standing fast ready to install that bolt again with everything new on the timing side and cylinder head back from the machine shop. I just need more of a guarantee on that before I move forward or a little more time to absorb the blow if the timing lets loose again. I have already done this 4 times before but one time does not count because it was the first time the timing went out. Did not really tear things up by sound and I re timed the thing and it sounded smooth(but it more than likely bent two valves on the intake side just high up on the stems where it would still close until under load). Whatever that did not count because I did not change the timing the chain or do a full blown cylinder head inspection; before timing it the second time.
there has to be something more than luck involved with that timing chain crank bolt. Like timing the engine with the engine upside down; removed from the car or something that I am missing about the procedure I look at the materials shown here and the books and videos I watched and read before I ever attempted this and nothing I have done has differed on the 1st 2nd and 3rd real attempt. that fourth attempt(which would be the 3 real attempt) was my own creation cobbled together original timing parts with new parts and bolts. Now even though it still started and ran.
this 4 attempt I am gonna put a timing chain on just to prime the fuel. which would be three presses of the start button without engine starting up because the fuel is being primed in the fuel rail. then I am gonna bust down the accesory side of the engine to make way for the brand new timing chain set. So when and how ever I get it to start hopefully with help from this or some other place it will start the first time and stand more of a chance I believe to work long term because it did not have the juking hard start situation of fuel being primed.