Hello everyone,

i just want this to be a discussion of your current setup. I know there are lots of threads, but some are almost 10 years old.

Something I was unaware of until last year is that Mini oil is no longer German Castrol and now seems to be made by penzoil in the USA. I’m wondering if it is rebadged PP or PUP with a LL-01 spec.

I’m running Belgian Castrol 0w-40 newest formulation without LL-01 or A3/B3 with a Mann Filter. I noticed the newest stuff is only A3/B4. Not sure if it’s relevant information. I wish they would bring the German stuff back. I’m sitting on jugs of it currently.

I’m burning oil per usual at around .5 and something 1 quart ever 1000 miles or so.

Is anyone running Motul or Liqui-moly or even Amsoil? I also noticed a 0w-40 Valvoline at Walmart that is LL-01. Seems to be the only one available from them now.

Looking forward to this discussion.

 

I'm in Germany and am using the Aral SuperTronic G 0w-30. It is officially certified for:
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
API SL/CF

It is also officially approved by BMW and GM (Opel at the time) for the following specs:
BMW Longlife-01 (LL-01)
GM-LL-A-025
GM-LL-B-025

Aral is a subsidiary of BP (as is Castrol). The oil was the cheapest, fully synthetic BMW LL-01 oil I could find at the time. I specifically looked for LL-01 instead of the newer LL-04 specification as the latter requires low SAPS (i.e. is optimized for cars with a diesel particle filter).

When it was discontinued in 2016 (replaced by a non-fully synthetic variant), I bought a small stockpile that will last me for another 4 yerars.

Edit: In Europe, BMW is now using repackaged Shell oils for its own branded oils, replacing Castrol.

 

I use Redline 5W-30 religiously. Meets BMW LL-01, low NOACK, Group V base stock. Every oil test I've done with it comes back perfect. There's a literally a gallon of the stuff sitting 10 feet away from my bed as I type this, ready to go in this weekend.

Tried LiquiMoly Molygen 0W-40 my last oil change to try something else. I absolutely hate it. I can't read the dipstick at all, my engine doesn't run as smooth, and it seems to hold on to a lot of condensation. I've been getting a slight milky deposit on the inside of my oil cap/valve cover which has never happened before using this oil. And yes, I have been keeping an eye on my coolant level so it isn't a head gasket issue.

 

Nice I’ve never heard of Aral. I wish they would label synthetics properly in the USA. I mean redline and amsoil do, but not the other big companies.

Penzoil does sell a version of shell helix 0w-30 here and they call it penzoil platnium LX euro I believe and it’s made in Germany, though I’m not too familiar with it.

 

i think spending how long my car lasts I’ll switch to redline for my next oil change. I just don’t want to spend too much right now on oil that’s just going to burn up or leak out (filter housing). The leak isn’t bad. I’m sure it loses more oil to burn than to the leak.

has anyone experienced any benefits from a high mileage oil with any leaks? Obviously the only real solution would be to fix the problem, but I don’t want to go into service mode just for a gasket. I feel like once I do, something else will break requiring service mode again lol

 

There are currently 16 (sixteen!) Helix engine oil variants listed on the german Shell webpage, two of which are 0w-30. Neither of these two are approved by BMW.

Rather than looking for a "euro formula" or similar branding (which has absolutely no meaning as there are contradicting engine requirements even within Europe) I would focus on officially approved BMW LL-01 (preferably) or BMW LL-98 (if LL-01 is not available). Of those that are approved, I would get the cheapest fully synthetic or (if unsure about that or too expensive) the cheapest one overall. If it is LL-01 (or LL-98) there is nothing to worry about.

Here is a table by BMW as to which engine requires which oil specification:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...engine/1PSryV8

By clicking on the individual specifications in the headers of the columns one is taken to the list of BMW approved oils for that specification. For example for LL-01:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...ine/1VnYpiUbyG

Edit 1: The list does not contain discontinued engine oils that had received offcial approval (such as the Aral SuperTronic G 0w-30). The "Penzoil Platinum Euro L" is an LL-04 approved oil (i.e. not for use with non-EU fuels). The "Penzoil Platinum LX Euro" is not in these lists (nor in past issues of which I have copies of).

Edit 2: LL-98 is not referred to in the above table, however, it is approved for use in the N12 engine (as well as e.g. the N16 in the LCI base Cooper).

 

Agreed on the euro label not really meaning anything. They all do tend to share some similarities such as ACEA A3/B3 and B4 approvals and most of the VW/MB certifications. LL-01 does seem to be the one that most typically do not carry and or lose altogether. This was the case with M1 0w40 and Edge 0w40 when they slowly lost those certs. Right now Valvoline 0w40 is the easiest/cheapest LL-01 I can find at $23 a gallon.

As far as LL-01 my issue is that it’s recommended in a wide range of applications from NA engines to GDI turbo engines and I’m not always sure that’s the best to go by (thought I typically do). Their newest is LL-01FE which seems to be only used in the USA in their newer engines.

Thank you for those links! Very helpful!

 

LL-01FE oils would indeed be the best for the N12 Engine (in north America and the EU.) Unfortunately, there are barely any non-BMW products available with that specification.

I prefer using LL-01 oils instead of the newer LL-04 as the latter only have advantages if used for engines with particle filters. For non-particle filtered cars, LL-01 (being high SAPS) are better.

I don't know how prices are in the US, but $23 a gallon would be a very good price in Germany.

 

Oh It’s a great price! The rest are easily above $35 with LL-01 approval. I just have never used Valvoline and was surprised it was approved considering mini and penzoil (shell) are in business together now lol

 

2009 Clubman JCW
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40
(the new SN Plus version).
Just did an oil and filter change today
(every 5,000 miles).

 

Walmart has been out of stock for a week on this. I should have bought some when they had it!

what your oil burn like?

 

About 2000 to 2500 miles per qt.
(40,000 miles on the odometer as of today)

 

liquid moly molygen 5w-40 euro spec

 

Thanks for posting this, duly bookmarked. Was beginning to wonder; so many brands and variants of synthetic oil on the market now. I can remember when there was just one - Mobile 1 - which happens to be my current brand, in 5W30, chosen when I saw Mod MINI using it on his YooBoob channel. Now that I see some of these others run substantially cheaper I may switch to something else next go round.

 

Castrol Synthetic 5W-30.

-Kevin

 

Also

Castrol Synthetic 5W-30

 

Liqui Moly 5w-40

 

Just noticed that Costco now sells Kirkland Signature fully synthetic 5W-30, 2- 5QT quart bottles for $25.

-Kevin

 

curious why some would change to a 0w-30 or 0w-40 rather than the 5w-30 ?

For any given oil brand/type the 0w oils, in my research, have been more volatile than the 5w versions of the same oils.



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I change oil every 5K miles, so I’m
choosing higher VI over longevity
of the oil.
If I went 7500 to 15000 between oil
changes I would choose differently.

 

This, and also: the frequency of cold starts and the proportion of short distance drives, especially in Winter.

 

Castrol 5w-40 , LL01 (in both my Mini and my BMW).

 

I guess it all depends on just HOW cold you can get.... and if you can warm it up for 30 seconds or not.

Nowadays, Full synthetics are much more stable in colder temps than conventional (mineral) oils... and generally have a much lower temp pour-point... though most of us still think about oils from a older, possibly outdated, perspective.

For me... intake valve deposits ( IVD ) along WITH good lubricity are important.... plenty of good 'lubricity' oils out there that meet the LL spec....but not many at all that have low NOACK or good TEOST specs.

For me, the oil that met my needs without needing to delve into a new occupation of lubrication engineer... is the 5W-30 Penzoil ULTRA PLATINUM or 5W-30 Ravenol DXG oil...Both Readily available.

Note: dont confuse the ULTRA PLATUM with the "PLATINUM" Penzoils though. I've settled in on this one for my car... $25 delivered with 'prime' for 5 quarts...

I run the 5W-30 from 0˚-F through 100˚-F ambient temps and feel that I get the performance in terms of cold start and lubrication protection WITH the all important lower volatility and lowest levels of IVD. This decision based on the oil mfg's specs rather than the BMW ratings in a 7-12 year old owners-manual recommendation. Many of these newer oils, and especially the ones for GDI engines with favorable IVD properties... were never considered in the scope of available oils when those manuals were printed and the cars were made.

Lower than than 0˚-F... I'd consider a 0W-20 oil... Higher than that or for real hard use in warm-ish ambient temps... I'd consider a 5W-40.
But, I'd be diligent to drain/fill with the 5W-30 when temps get back to 'normal range'.... Wouldn't even worry about the filter unless it was getting to 7,500 miles on this.

I like to change my oil, with full synthetics, at the 4,000 - 4,500 mark..... maybe 5,500 miles on a stretch....
3,000 miles with conventional mineral oils. (Like the DELO/Rotilla/Delvac in my Duramax)

Though an engine oil can have longer lubricity properties, like with the long-life oils... I really don't want all the dirt/carbon and potential gas-dilution in a turbo engine to factor in, regardless of weather or not the oil has in fact 'broken down' yet...

Not 'cheaping out' on oil changes has served me in the last 40 years of car ownership and maintenance...Get the dirty oil OUT !

The oil choice can play a big roll in IVD's... especially in these GDI engines where there is ZERO gasoline cleaning the backside of the intake valve.

For me, having the BMW LL spec is much less important to me than than other considerations.... especially when we are talking about really high end oils like these.
The oil companies often have to pay huge money to get a particular oil 'certified' by a given MFG to get their stamp of approval.

Outside of the warranty.... I'll make that decision... Inside of warranty, where MINI will look for any excuse to deny warranty claims... I'd do the research to find the the LL spec oil with the lowest NOACK numbers... and run the 5W-30 or 5W-40 unless you live in areas where the temps are extremely low... and in that case... I'd only run the 0W oil for that extreme cold time... and do a simple drain/fill of the 0W oil when it gets above, say, 0˚-F.

Oil choice is ALWAYS a 'hot-bed' discussion point that can get bogged down in lots and lots of tech talk.... Favorites etc.

I'm not attached to any brand of oil... so long as it meets my needs for what it's used in.... again IMO.





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Admittedly, different oil products do perform differently well and have a profound effect on the longevity and performance of an engine.

Unfortunately:

1. Engine manufacturers do not publish detailed information (i.e. method of measurement and range of acceptable values for each individual property) on the characteristics they require oils to have in order to grant an approval. Not to mention that they publish no information on the extent to which each characteristic affects or is important/relevant for individual engines.

2. Likewise, engine oil manufacturers do not publish a full list of all possible characteristics of their products (with a standardized and common method of measurement).

3. There are many tradeoffs made when designing engines, deciding on engine and oil specifications, defining service intervalls and manufacturing of engines (and oils). To mention but a few: engine performance, environmental regulations, cost, serviceability, availability, etc.

For example: not only do we not know what NOACK performance say BMW Longlife 01 requires as a minimum, it is also near to impossible to find out what the minimum value would have to be so that for a given engine, operated in a given environment, with oil changes in a given intervall, the performance of the oil remains above what the engine requires (i.e. a better NOACK would have no significant effect).

These are the reasons I primarily focus on engine manufacturer's oil requirements and price when shopping for an engine oil. I'm not saying that it makes no difference what oil is used, not at all. It's just very difficult to quantify the end results of using one oil product or another over the lifetime of an engine.

 

All great points George... and great presention

Here's more of my thoughts...my opinions (as we all have)
And, to add to that.... I have also seen the end result of using only Mini branded or BMW LL spec'd oil with regular changes, within the recommended frequency from MINI.... on cars these Second gen engines both the N14 and N18 variants in these R56 being discussed here in my search for oil info.

I've seen some horrible IVD's on these R56 cars that had regular oil changes with the LL oils... and not to many clean ones... nor from talking to Mini specialists in our area and around the country. I've also seen some R56 cars that have run low volatility oils since new without blasting and without catch cans... that are clean under the valve cover and clean on the valves when inspected.

While I'm sure that changing oil out more frequently than MINI specifies.... plays a large roll in IVD's.... I believe that the properties of the oil can help us get more life and better performance from our engines working outside of the LL rating.

I especially believe in this in this day/age of maintenance-contracts that maximize mfg profits the profits that oil changes have been pushed longer in terms of miles.
With issues showing up from IVD's generally beyond the mfg warranty period.

I've had veteran dealer techs from BMW tell me flat out that the largest factor in long running engines with less issues and low IVD levels is Changing out the engine oil with at least Double the frequency spec'd out by the mfg.

These IVD's are the main reasons that walnut-shell-blasting is so popular and needed... and so many catch-can setups, whether effective or not, are being sold to curb that.
These engines can get IVD's so bad that it truly affects the function of the car. These deposits come from oil vapors being burned onto the backs of the valves with zero gasoline there to help keep them clean.

Lower volatility oils do leave a lower amount of IVD's and the lower NOACK numbers and better TEOST ratings do factor into this...whether or not ANY car-mfg includes these in their ratings.

A lot has happened in the world of GDI engines and oil tech to help them last since the LL-01 spec came out....And MINI/BMW really do nothing to edit their recommendations for our older cars. (why would they??)

For me, unless really cold or really Hot... 5W-30 full synth with low volatility from a good mfg. with the Same API as the LL oils spec is what I want.

These engines have factory bearing clearances that are setup to run a 5W-30 oil as well... which is why I'm using it... It rarely gets below 20˚-F for me...but I have no qualms using it to 0˚-F ... but then again ... I warm up my motor for at least a Minute before driving in the cold.... and at least 30 seconds when temps are warmer.... my engines, with good quality oil, and regular oil changes sooner than the mfg recommends... last and perform and have minimal issues.

My last 3 oil changes have been using the NOACK DXG.... for these reasons... and an ultra low SN-API, NOACK of 6.0 and a -79˚-F pour point. in the 5w-30 spec.
But thebombardier's post above has me looking at the Redline







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