R56 Friction Wheel and Belt issue?
#1
Friction Wheel and Belt issue?
Hello everyone, I just did a whole bunch of work to my 2013 R56 Cooper S. I did timing chain, crank pully, friction wheel, water pump, water pump pulley, and some other stuff.
Anyways, my friction gear seems to be bouncing/rattling ever so slightly on the belt and water pump pulley.
The Belt is the ECS tuning kevlar reinforced belt 895, and the friction wheel is dayco and brand new. I did not put a new belt tensioner in.
So far it is seeming like maybe the friction wheel isnt pressing against the belt hard enough or the belt has imperfections on the friction side causing the friction wheel to bounce.
Does anyone have any experience with the @ECSTuning kevlar reinforced belt? Has anyone had a new friction gear just been a dud?
I read another thread where his friction gear was loose and it was brand new just like mine so im not sure whats going on here.
Check out this video, https://drive.google.com/file/d/10qk...ew?usp=sharing
I think it may be a bad friction wheel.
Anyways, my friction gear seems to be bouncing/rattling ever so slightly on the belt and water pump pulley.
The Belt is the ECS tuning kevlar reinforced belt 895, and the friction wheel is dayco and brand new. I did not put a new belt tensioner in.
So far it is seeming like maybe the friction wheel isnt pressing against the belt hard enough or the belt has imperfections on the friction side causing the friction wheel to bounce.
Does anyone have any experience with the @ECSTuning kevlar reinforced belt? Has anyone had a new friction gear just been a dud?
I read another thread where his friction gear was loose and it was brand new just like mine so im not sure whats going on here.
Check out this video, https://drive.google.com/file/d/10qk...ew?usp=sharing
I think it may be a bad friction wheel.
Last edited by CakeEater; 01-16-2023 at 08:06 AM.
#2
@CakeEater
It best to use both the friction wheel and tensioner as OEM due to tighter tolerances and I suggest using “Gates” belt as I have very good experiences with them.
It best to use both the friction wheel and tensioner as OEM due to tighter tolerances and I suggest using “Gates” belt as I have very good experiences with them.
#3
@CakeEater
It best to use both the friction wheel and tensioner as OEM due to tighter tolerances and I suggest using “Gates” belt as I have very good experiences with them.
It best to use both the friction wheel and tensioner as OEM due to tighter tolerances and I suggest using “Gates” belt as I have very good experiences with them.
#4
I'm not able to watch the video as I do not have a Google account.
Does the friction wheel rattle while the water pump is driven? Is the water pump driven properly or is there slippage between any of the pulleys and the friction wheel?
When the water pump is not driven, the pressure of the friction wheel on the crank pulley is by design such that the friction wheel is free to bounce if the belt surface it is running on is uneven.
If the friction wheel is turning smoothly and quietly when pressed (in order to simulate load) and turned by hand, then it is (extremely!) unlikely that the bearing is the cause of rattling.
FWIW: Here is my "excursion" with a rattling friction wheel, including videos at different stages (i.e. strong rattling due to melted rubber inside the tracks of the crank pulley and slight rattling due to an uneven surface of a new belt):
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ng-engine.html
Does any of my three videos come close to the rattling of your friction wheel?
Does the friction wheel rattle while the water pump is driven? Is the water pump driven properly or is there slippage between any of the pulleys and the friction wheel?
When the water pump is not driven, the pressure of the friction wheel on the crank pulley is by design such that the friction wheel is free to bounce if the belt surface it is running on is uneven.
If the friction wheel is turning smoothly and quietly when pressed (in order to simulate load) and turned by hand, then it is (extremely!) unlikely that the bearing is the cause of rattling.
FWIW: Here is my "excursion" with a rattling friction wheel, including videos at different stages (i.e. strong rattling due to melted rubber inside the tracks of the crank pulley and slight rattling due to an uneven surface of a new belt):
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ng-engine.html
Does any of my three videos come close to the rattling of your friction wheel?
#5
I'm not able to watch the video as I do not have a Google account.
Does the friction wheel rattle while the water pump is driven? Is the water pump driven properly or is there slippage between any of the pulleys and the friction wheel?
When the water pump is not driven, the pressure of the friction wheel on the crank pulley is by design such that the friction wheel is free to bounce if the belt surface it is running on is uneven.
If the friction wheel is turning smoothly and quietly when pressed (in order to simulate load) and turned by hand, then it is (extremely!) unlikely that the bearing is the cause of rattling.
FWIW: Here is my "excursion" with a rattling friction wheel, including videos at different stages (i.e. strong rattling due to melted rubber inside the tracks of the crank pulley and slight rattling due to an uneven surface of a new belt):
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ng-engine.html
Does any of my three videos come close to the rattling of your friction wheel?
Does the friction wheel rattle while the water pump is driven? Is the water pump driven properly or is there slippage between any of the pulleys and the friction wheel?
When the water pump is not driven, the pressure of the friction wheel on the crank pulley is by design such that the friction wheel is free to bounce if the belt surface it is running on is uneven.
If the friction wheel is turning smoothly and quietly when pressed (in order to simulate load) and turned by hand, then it is (extremely!) unlikely that the bearing is the cause of rattling.
FWIW: Here is my "excursion" with a rattling friction wheel, including videos at different stages (i.e. strong rattling due to melted rubber inside the tracks of the crank pulley and slight rattling due to an uneven surface of a new belt):
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ng-engine.html
Does any of my three videos come close to the rattling of your friction wheel?
Yes it it most like the sound in your first video. And yes when the friction gear is not tensioned it bounces off the belt. And when it is driving the water pump pulley it is less noise but still a little bouncy. It is leading me to believe it is the belt with imperfections on the friction side or the bearing in the friction gear. The water pump and water pump pulley are brand new along with the friction gear and crank pulley and belt. Its all new except the actual belt tensioner.
#7
No problems with the belts or friction wheel, when you install make sure the tension is set and the cable is all the way in. When you pull that little cable in it takes the tension off the belt. We had some of the OEM/ genuine friction wheel be bad from the factory on the bearing itself. Small amount but it happens. Seems like the system is prone to be problematic due to the design of that friction wheel set up. The water pump drive wheel can wear and crack making noise on the wheel.
Can you post a shared link. I cant see that link for the video.
Make sure the old belt has the same length as the one you took off. Old one should have marking for the length.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-r56-help.html
Can you post a shared link. I cant see that link for the video.
Make sure the old belt has the same length as the one you took off. Old one should have marking for the length.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-r56-help.html
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Customer Service Hours: 8am-8pm EST|Sales Team Hours: 8am-11pm | SAT 10am-7pm 800.924.5172
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#8
#9
No problems with the belts or friction wheel, when you install make sure the tension is set and the cable is all the way in. When you pull that little cable in it takes the tension off the belt.
Can you post a shared link. I cant see that link for the video.
Make sure the old belt has the same length as the one you took off. Old one should have marking for the length.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-r56-help.html
Can you post a shared link. I cant see that link for the video.
Make sure the old belt has the same length as the one you took off. Old one should have marking for the length.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-r56-help.html
I updated the link, anyone should be able to see it now with the link https://drive.google.com/file/d/10qk...ew?usp=sharing
As for the belt i took off, it was a continental 894. My car calls for an 895 and the ECS tuning kevlar reinforced belt is an 895. The 1mm difference shouldnt matter. The friction gear is brand new Dayco from ECS tuning.
I think when i put the friction gear on initially while working on the car it was in the extended position but i of course retracted the tab to engage the friction gear before starting the car. The water pump and water pump pulley are all new as well so it seems like the exterior of the ECS belt is not smooth or unlikely that the new friction gear is bad. I did spin it before putting it on and it seemed fine to me
#10
Ok thanks
I just saw i another post that you have the main drive from another vendor, i dont know but maybe its off enough to not make contact or irregularities in the pulley? Never seen the belt be issues other then the factory Genuine MINI belt like to wear and get chewed up ( sometimes separate) over time, but not new. The friction wheel will make noise when its moving, but i can tell with all the other noises if the bearing on the dayco is bad from the factory/loud.. It does not look like tensioner is bouncing off the belt, maybe i dont see it.
Yea the belts are smooth, i have never seen one that's irregular unless its worn/time for change. But the main drive pulley being non oem could be making the belt do some weird things?
Let me know what you find when you swap things around.
I just saw i another post that you have the main drive from another vendor, i dont know but maybe its off enough to not make contact or irregularities in the pulley? Never seen the belt be issues other then the factory Genuine MINI belt like to wear and get chewed up ( sometimes separate) over time, but not new. The friction wheel will make noise when its moving, but i can tell with all the other noises if the bearing on the dayco is bad from the factory/loud.. It does not look like tensioner is bouncing off the belt, maybe i dont see it.
Yea the belts are smooth, i have never seen one that's irregular unless its worn/time for change. But the main drive pulley being non oem could be making the belt do some weird things?
Let me know what you find when you swap things around.
__________________
MINI Guru/ MINI Owner Since 2004 | NEW Lifetime Part Replacement | Local Pickup
Milltek | Genuine MINI | Forge Motorsport | NM Engineering | ECS Performance | M7 Speed
Customer Service Hours: 8am-8pm EST|Sales Team Hours: 8am-11pm | SAT 10am-7pm 800.924.5172
MINI Guru/ MINI Owner Since 2004 | NEW Lifetime Part Replacement | Local Pickup
Milltek | Genuine MINI | Forge Motorsport | NM Engineering | ECS Performance | M7 Speed
Customer Service Hours: 8am-8pm EST|Sales Team Hours: 8am-11pm | SAT 10am-7pm 800.924.5172
Last edited by ECSTuning; 01-16-2023 at 08:34 AM.
#11
Ok thanks
I just saw i another post that you have the main drive from another vendor, i dont know but maybe its off enough to not make contact or irregularities in the pulley? Never seen the belt be issues other then the factory Genuine MINI belt like to wear and get chewed up ( sometimes separate) over time, but not new. The friction wheel will make noise when its moving, but i can tell with all the other noises if the bearing on the dayco is bad from the factory/loud.. It does not look like tensioner is bouncing off the belt, maybe i dont see it.
Yea the belts are smooth, i have never seen one that's irregular unless its worn/time for change. But the main drive pulley being non oem could be making the belt do some weird things?
Let me know what you find when you swap things around.
I just saw i another post that you have the main drive from another vendor, i dont know but maybe its off enough to not make contact or irregularities in the pulley? Never seen the belt be issues other then the factory Genuine MINI belt like to wear and get chewed up ( sometimes separate) over time, but not new. The friction wheel will make noise when its moving, but i can tell with all the other noises if the bearing on the dayco is bad from the factory/loud.. It does not look like tensioner is bouncing off the belt, maybe i dont see it.
Yea the belts are smooth, i have never seen one that's irregular unless its worn/time for change. But the main drive pulley being non oem could be making the belt do some weird things?
Let me know what you find when you swap things around.
#12
So I have the car apart again and found the issue. There was a crack in the plastic housing on the friction gear. This was vibrating against itself causing the noise. I superglued it and hopefully it will hold, if not, it is only just an annoying noise, the part works perfectly fine.
You can see here where the friction gear plastic housing has a crack. I superglued this back together
You can see here where the friction gear plastic housing has a crack. I superglued this back together
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ECSTuning (04-03-2023)
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