There's been examples of this over the years; the 99-01 Civic Si still brings 10-11k for a quality example, while the 03-05 version, with a considerably higher sticker price, can be had for less. People just liked the earlier version better. And there's some debate right now that that may be true with the 1st gen MINI. Only time will tell.

Same thing was true for while with E36 BMWs when the E46 first came out-E46s took a pretty good price increase, and the E36 was thought of as more of a pure driver's car, lighter etc, so it contined to hold its strong resale value.....

 

Had a 1981 Porsche 911SC. Went up $2000 when Porsche became more luxurious and less sports car as well as the liquid cooling addition. Time will tell.

 

I apologize for not being perfectly clear... I was speaking specifically to buying and selling MINI's, or trading MINIs into a MINI dealer for a new model MINI. I'm quite aware you can custom order any car from any dealer, regardless of make... but again, I was speaking directly to MINIs.

Checking 5 lots (Victoria BC, Vancouver BC, Richmond BC, Tacoma WA, Portland OR) I never saw more than 5 new 2006 cars that weren't accounted for. The rest (20-30 in one place) were paid for and waiting for pick-up with plus 1 or 2 dealer demos. The rest were used MINIs traded in to the dealer or purchased by the dealer elsewhere (auction etc.). The supply here must be a bit lower than what you're apparenly seeing in your neck of the woods. I've never seen 50 2006 MINIs sitting availible on a lot. Here's an exaple of what I've seen shopping around and how I arrived at my numbers:

Taking the two 2004 MCS's for sale at NW MINI as an example (middle of the page): http://www.diamondlot.com/bmwnorthwest/mini/

Used Retail: $26,900

Three similar 2004 S cars found on Auto Trader online: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...l=&cardist=197
...
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...=&cardist=1904
and
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...1&cardist=1795

So an average used private party price: $19,000 give or take a COUPLE GRAND (depending on options and condition, and specific options of course)!!!

Kelly Blue Book "Trade in" value of a similarly equipped S: $15,500-18,500 (depending on condition - With Edmunds and NADA even LOWER)... and I HIGHLY doubt that there are many dealers out there offering to buy cars in excess of this range (no matter what those cars will go for at auction-as a nice traded MINI will most likely be re-sold on a MINI dealer's lot if traded to that MINI dealer). The exception might be if you purchased that car (and possibly others) from that dealer and are a returning customer.

As I was (at least in my mind) including ALL 1st generation MC's and MCS's in my gross generalization... knock off a copple grand for a 2002-2003... and even more dough for a standard Cooper. Your down to a trade in price near $12-14,000 for some older, modestly equipped standard MINI's. Just like what was offered to Mira in the other NAM thread about trading in her car (where her MINI dealer low-balled her at $11K for her standard Cooper): https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=79484

Looking again at NW MINI's used cars http://www.diamondlot.com/bmwnorthwest/mini/... that same nicely equipped 2003 Cooper is being re-sold for $20,900.

I didn't mean to suggest that the dealers were making $12K on trade ins... but this is still suggesting a decent profit... and another indication that MINI is at least making the attempt (here in this area) to (artificially or not) keep RETAIL values high on the MINI.

 

I did a search on Cost or Price in the 2007 forum, didn't see anything current.

Has there been any estimates on what the prices will be for 2007?

This will affect of course the appeal of a good, used low mile R53, if the new vehicles are more expensive...

 

The value to dealers of the R53 MINI is going to be what the cars fetch at auction. KBB and any other valuation service is just an estimate of value. KBB is handy when you are negotiating with an insurance company for a total loss; but that is about it. In California, 1-2 year old diesel VWs and MBZs are fetching pretty close to original retail (at auction!) because the demand is there. Only time will tell if demand is maintained for the R53 MINI. If the R56 is a bomb, then hold onto the R53s.

 

I really really seriously doubt that this will happen. Really. Seriously.

 

In both examples, the next generation car was significantly different than the generation before. Of course the 03-05 Si's can be had for cheaper, have you seen them? I think they are also less accepting of modification which is where the 09-01 Civic is maintaining its value.

The E36->E46 is the same as the Porsche example. The newer generation cars in both examples are trending up market and are dragging the previous generation with them largely due to brand image and the fact that both brands hold their value well historically. The new MINI is not moving up-market, BMW is doing its best to maintain its price point and make more money without changing the fundamentals of the car.

The thing the R53 most has going for it is the similarity to the R56. Used R56's won't be hitting the streets in any quantity for a while to force prices down on the R53, and your average observer won't notice the difference between the two cars in the first place.

 

The MINI thing is totally market driven. For example a quick look at two local dealers in DC area have 23 and 24 NEW cars on the lot. This is down from several months ago as inventory declines and no new 06s built.

I think I understand the rest of what your saying. However, As others have said, maybe in the US its different but I believe most cars taken in trade, unless excellent examples, are quickly turned over at wholesale auction.

 

Which local DC dealers have 24 new cars on their lot ?
What's on the website does not reflect what's on their lot for sale.

 

Towson and MOS.

If they dont keep their inventory up to date online, that doesnt change the fact they had the cars for sale at one time

I have personally been there and counted ... physically counted 50 new cars just sitting there in the spring (towson). In fact, when I bought at Towson 18 months ago, there were at least 25 on the lot to choose from if you liked the colors, options, etc.

 

THAT we TOTALLY agree on!!! From what I've read on NAM, and elsewhere... the west coast (at least outside the San Diego/LA area) seems to get the short end of the stick when it comes to build slots and therefore dealer inventory. There just isn't that much to choose from on the "supply" end out here.

As far as cars taken in trade... I'm sure your right: If it's a non-MINI, or a ratty example, I bit they go out to auction pretty much right away.

 

Hmmm. I called all 3 dealers in DC. I live in Sterling near that dealer. It seems they definitely don't have that kind of stock now. In fact they have almost nothing.
Most of the cars on the website are spoken for, the dealers don't even populate their own website with those. Mini does. At least thats what a guy from Towson told me.

I can't dispute that they used to have a lot of cars, but for the last month or two since I've been looking, they have exactly squat.

 

See, I think it's going to go the other way (or at least that's what I'm hoping if the R56 has issues and scares people off a little bit).
Given that the the 05/06's are, in general, the most refined of the bunch they may end up being more sort after by buyers in the know and that's who I think I will be selling my 05 to anyways.

Private sale of the R53, to other other enthusiasts, will likely remain strong because people are attached to them.

 

Except for the lunatic fringe of enthusiasts...and there's not that many of those...I think the days of the non-depreciating MINI have been over for awhile. Yes, they still hold their value well, but it'll never be what it was back around '04...it was pretty nuts then.

I don't think most folks will react to the R53/R56 changes with almost total indifference. Given certain benefits and improvements, R56 will be seen as the 'latest-greatest." Enthusiasts may know the differences, but since the cost is about the same, and you can build-to-order, and the warranty is so good...why not buy new? Same argument as now. R56 just has stuff most folks will think "are cool" and will want.

We'll all have a bit of a reality check, but it doesn't matter. Owners of '02 - '06 MINIs need to love their cars for what they are and what makes them special, not by what the market (which has a notoriously short memory)dictates.

 

im not really expecting much change in resale value, what i expect is a more difficult time trying to sell an r53. i think resale value will stay pretty solid though, because even though the r53 isnt as refined or new, its the roiginal and is filled with character, and i think those who know this and want an r53 will pay solid money for them (though as gokartride said, not crazy money like a few years back, but about whats seen today for a low [i.e. 30k] mileage 04 [which i tend to see around 19 for an MCS which is pretty solid IMO], im guessing this for an avg mini S, im sure a JCW, or navi car or soemthing will pull a bit more), the only real question is are there enough r53 enthusiasts out there, or mini enthusiasts whod rather have an r53, to go around. i dont think there will be, and itll be tough to quickly sell an r53 MINI

 

I think the differences are going to be inherently more obvious i.e the interior, center console, etc, etc. People are already saying that they hate the new center console so much that they may never even consider buying an 07.

I agree it may take longer to sell an R53 and possibly even longer again to sell a Cooper over an S but I don't think the market is going to turn from the R53 completely.

 

Note the word If in my original post. I personally doubt that the R56 will bomb. But there is a chance. The first iteration on Chris Bangle's 700 series design suffered the shortest model year run in BMW's corporate history (2 years).

 

I'd agree with you that the interior differences between the R53 and R56 will be the changes which will be most apparent to the general public. Most of the people I know (who don't intimately know MINIs) can hardly tell the exterior difference without close inspection.

I would however say that internet forums tend to reflect the most opinionated individuals (myself included ). Those usually strongly for, or those strongly against a topic, a product, a mod, a destination for a road trip, whatever.

As far as the re-styling of the MINI goes, I kind of like the new interior... and I can't wait to experience the increased performance from the new engine, suspention and brakes . I'm pretty sure in the long run, for me at least, that will outweigh the color of the switches, location of the volume ****, shape of the heater controls or location of the CD player.

... but then again, I sure hope the cup holders are better than the 1st generation! I can't LIVE without a functional cup holder!

 

I don't own a Mini yet.. But I have been looking for at 2005 or 2006. From what I have seen the market seems to have softened a bit. That said, I don't think the R56 intro will dramatically damage prices. Why, because this is basically supply and demand. The R53 is a desirable car and there is not a huge supply of used cars. So IMHO I think the value will hold up, but will soften a bit more as buyers will always be intrigued by a new model. I'll go out on a limb and predict that the market will slide about 10% on the R53 (unless the R56 does indeed turn out to have a lot of problems), then hold steady. That is not enough to keep me from buying a Mini right now and should not be enough to put a cloud over any R53 owners. If your grating your teeth about a couple grand then you really need to have a pint and relax.

 

One thing that doesn't seem to be getting much attention here is the vast improvement in gas mileage that the R56 models will be getting. I read something about 35-40 MPG, and even 47 MPG. Not sure if this was the MC or the MCS. With these numbers, when gas prices go up again (as they undoubtedly will, IMO, with the next hurricane, next middle east crisis, and demand outpacing supply) the R56 will look a lot more attractive, especially to drivers who will have them as their daily drivers.

-Andrew

 

Mileage improvement over the R53 would be nice, but it is all part of the total package. If there are issues with the car frequently overheating and going into limp mode, that (the overheating) will trump fuel mileage. We will just have to see what MINI has created. At least it appears that Chris Bangle has been prevented from mangle-ing the design of the R56.

 

I agree partially with the center console comment - styling issues may deter potential customers of an '07 to buy an '06 or earlier, but I doubt it will be the ultimate deciding factor. I guess it depends on the consumer.

As far as a Cooper being possibly harder to sell than an S, I don't think that will necessarily be the case either. I think if gas prices stay high, the cooper may be more desirable. If you look at overall sales figures, the S appears to have caught up and over taken Cooper sales in the last few years, but I bet the gap got smaller recently as gas prices increased.

However, the 07 is supposed to get better gas mileage, so who knows what will happen! Only time will tell

 

Still haven't seen any comment if the Base Prices for 07 will vary from the current: Cooper at $17,450, or the S at $20,900

Seems to be a pretty well guarded piece of info from BMW, as my MA said they have " No Idea " if there will be change in prices.

I would think if there is any increase for R56, ( even if option costs remain similar ), it would at least be a small factor in keeping R53 resale attractive to buyers.

As a car owner, I tend to keep my cars in good shape, and keep 'em past 100k miles - so I'm not all sweaty re: Resale.

Seeings how I've just had two reasonably short test drives, and have my '06 on order !! -- I'm not looking to sell anytime soon... I want to drive my new Mini!! ... (I'll try to be patient for couple of months.. )
.

 

Unfortunately, thats just your wishes... In reality, 02 - 04 cars have taken the depreciation hit while 05/06 cars not so much.

The masses could care less about "refinement" ... only the enthusiasts even bother to look up the differences.

Sorry, you just drove an 06 off the lot, I would expect a BIG hit come January, 07

 

Geez, I read these posts about depreciation and car prices taking hits and I shake my head and wonder... I realize that nobody likes to see huge depreciation on a car, but come on, you bought these cool cars to have FUN and enjoy your driving. You didn't really buy these little bombers as INVESTMENTS, did you? Come on! Whether you're driving a 2002, a 2006 or you're waiting on a 2007, enjoy the drive, maintain the Mini and HAVE FUN! You guys start to sound like people trying to time the stock market! That's not FUN!!
IF you truly want a Mini that won't depreciate, go drop a big pile of cash on a beautifully restored early Cooper S. As to these modern versions, they're very disposable, as are all modern mass production modern cars. Notice I said MASS PRODUCTION. They're going to depreciate. Fast or slow, it's going to happen. Meanwhile, WE DRIVE!
I sold a very nice original 62 Cooper to complete the fund for a soon to be ordered 07 MCS. I'm gonna drive it, enjoy it, have a good time meeting lots of other owners whether they're driving a 1962 or a 2007! THAT is what it's all about. Let's have FUN, boys and girls! THAT is what it's all about!
SMILE HONK AND WAVE WHEN YOU SEE ME ON THE ROAD! I WILL DO THE SAME BACK, PROBABLY BEFORE YOU DO!