You must all remember that BMW still is the one who approves the engine... someone else is just building the engine.

Not exactley. Peugeot is manufacturing all the components for the new Mini engine. All the components then be shipped to England to be built in a BMW assembly plant.

Styeven

 

brilliant... perfect...

than that means that people have even less to worry about since BMW is assembeling the engine


I personally wouldn't care if peugot or BMW builds it... as long as BMW is involved it will have to meet all of the specs. and demands that BMW commands

 

I agree....I will not knowingly buy anything french! Yes, that may be more politically motivated than anything else, nevertheless, they are not known for well thought out, time tested expertise.

I will not be buying MINI until someone else makes the engines

By the way....It needs to be said that just because you know how to build a reliable diesel engine DOES NOT mean that you build good gasoline engines. They may both be fruits, but they are apples and oranges

 

Well you may want to sell your current MINI immediately since much of its electronics (including the ECU) are manufactured in France by Siemens. (not to mention dozens of other fairly important components)

 

Which by the way is the primary complaint with the current generation (i.e. stumble and yo-yo) . Perhaps if the french stayed away from the ECU our biggest complaint would be rattles

 

As anyone would tell you the issue that plagued early MINI ECUs wasn't the build quality but the programing which was done by Siemens in Germany.

 

Wow guys(generic)! I sense some angst here.
Angst

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For other uses of this term, see Angst (disambiguation). EmotionsAcceptance
Anger
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Angst is a German, Dutch and nordic word for fear or anxiety. It is used in English to describe an intense feeling of internal emotional strife.
A different but related meaning is attributed to Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard (1813–1855). Kierkegaard used the word angst (Danish, meaning "dread") to describe a profound and deep-seated spiritual condition of insecurity and despair in the free human being. Where the animal is a slave to its God-given instincts but always confident in its own actions, Kierkegaard believed that the freedom given to mankind leaves the human in a constant fear of failing its responsibilities to god. Kierkegaard's concept of angst is considered to be an important stepping stone for 20th-century existentialism.
While Kierkegaard's feeling of angst is fear of actual responsibility to God, in modern use, angst is broadened to include general frustration associated with the conflict between actual responsibilities to self, one's principles, and others (possibly including God). Still, the angst in alternative music may be more accessible to most audiences than the esoteric tradition of existentialism. The term "angst" is now widely used with a negative and derisive connotation that mocks the expression of a common adolescent experience of malaise.


It'll be ok guys. I expect most of the bugs will be worked out prior to release. The 07 turbo will likely be an awesome leap forward in powering our MINI's!

P.S. That being said, I'll prolly wait for the 08 before jumping in.(chuckle)
[edit]

 

Ok, fair egnough.... but I still don't like anything french

The 07 will probably be an improvement in performance and numbers. I would guess The price will tick up about $500 every two years, with slight bumps in pkg costs as well. But I predict it will never have the same charm, demand will relent a bit, value will be less, waiting lists will no longer exist.

 

Well Europe already has the diesel and it’s not turbo. 88 hp PeuCit. Based on the timeline below off of motoringfile.com from a few years back it looks like they’re close to on track with this. I added what the models are or may be.

2006 1.6l 140hp 6-speed R50 (Must be the first Cooper Turbo, late on this one, maybe they’ll call it Cooper T, old style body (R50))
2007 1.6l 110hp 6-speed R50 (Cooper non turbo, plain Cooper)
2007 1.6l 110hp CVT R50 (Cooper)
New Body
2007 1.4l 75hp 5-speed R56 (Cooper One Diesel, already using engine but with 88hp) Europe Only
2007 1.4l 90hp 6-speed R56 (Cooper One, already using engine) Europe Only
2007 1.4l 90hp CVT R56 (Cooper One Automatic already using engine) Europe Only
2007 1.6l 110hp 6-speed R56 (Cooper)
2007 1.6l 110hp CVT R56 (Cooper)
2007 1.6l 140hp 6-speed R56 (Cooper T)
2007 1.6l 170hp 6-speed R56 (Cooper TS or ST??)

DISCLAIMER: These are only my guesses. Use of probably and hope and adding atleast hopefully make that clear.
As for pricing, I hope the Vanilla Cooper will see a price drop, the T would be the same as the current Cooper and the TS the same as the MCS. Probably atleast going to be:
MC $17000
MCT $21000
MCTS $24000
But I hope
MC $14,000
MCT $17,000
MCTS $21000
Nice we’ll have three models to choose from now.

OT: Rumored America would get the Diesel in ’08. Would be decent if it is Turbo.

Oh, I guess I should say Hi to the forum. Had a classic Mini last summer and am researching what to get. I will definitely be waiting for the ’07 announcements. Coming from minimania forums using the same screen name.
The old mini.
http://www.chadhoc.com/Mini/Sites.html

 

i have an incredibly difficult time believing these prices since MINIUSA usually doesn't finish out pricing on these cars until about 2 weeks before production. BMW/MINI USA and BMW/MINI AG usually don't lock down prices until the last minute because of currency flucuations...

This is just what I know from experiance...

 

I'm just guessing. Hope they keep the top end at around the $21000 base as it currenlty is. Since turbo chargers are cheaper than super chargers there shouldn't be much of a price increase if any. 6-8 more months and we'll know.

 

i don't understand why you would post this... Your "guesses" are very misleading... your posts make them sound like you are speaking factually... and that is NOT the case...

 

I would hazard a guess that BMW will use this as an opportunaity to increase the MSRP of all models (whether they are cheaper to produce or not).

 

i am going to have to agree with you on that!

Part of it is due that they have a product in huge demmand... and if you can get teh consumer to pay 500-1000 dollars extra and beable to justify it by saying that the new model is bigger... faster... etc... of course they will... wouldn't you?

 

I beg to differ. Demand is high only because supply is low. Increase production capacity, as they are doing now, produce enough cars, and demand goes away.

 

No....demand is independent of supply. (Excluding the relatively small number of people who are elitest's and only want things that are rare)

Demand is really a function of price. If MINI's cost $10 then about %99.99 of people would buy one. If a MINI cost $1,000,000 about %.0001 of people would buy one.

price is determined by #of units (quanity) to achieve max profit. Price was determined by people who through research have determined that acctually if More cars were sold they would make LESS money, If less cars were sold they would again make LESS money.

i.e. (assume fixed cost to produce for simplification)

at price(profit) $100, 20 people would buy = $2000
price(profit) $80 80 people would buy = $16000
price(profit) $50 90 people would buy = $4500

diminishing returns due to market saturation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Remember all companies are in buisness to make money....as much as possible , by offering a good or service people want.

Anyway....back to the 07 prediction.

The turbo will change the price If intrest on this board is accurate, and a turbo is MORE desirable to the public (for HP reasons)....Then the car will cost more. what it costs to make is not relevant (in that it costs less).

On the other hand A bunch of modded and trashed MINI's on the secondhand market will hurt product image and confidence. This will turn away new intrests in the brand in addition to the fact that there will be other new cars with a cutting edge design that will generate excitement and distract the buyers.

On the whole I believe the demand will drop slightly through the next model cycle. Waiting lists will diminish. MSRP will stay consistent (inflation adjustments)

 

I think I misrepesented my point. I think the "demand" is artificially high because dealers only get so many and charge full price (or more). Build some more, "demand", meaning backlog in this case, goes away. I guess a different term. I get tired of ppl proclaiming there is a shortage when its an artificial shortage caused by lack of production capacity ... its not like MINI is sitting on fully made cars and withholding shipment.

On the other hand A bunch of modded and trashed MINI's on the secondhand market will hurt product image and confidence.

This part is interesting. At last weeks Barrett-Jackson, a 1987 930 Turbo did poor on the block. The commentators noted the aftermarket exhaust and said that was a mistake. To often people got those cars and "modded" them destroying their future potential for sales ... and so it was true.

 

Yeah, the term "demand" is a bit confused in this case. I see what you meen by a backlog. Yes backlogs exist because of low supply.

But I would argue that MINI has done an absolutely amazing balancing act, the longest time I have ever seen a product that

1. Has nailed the blend of form and function into a well performing, great looking classical design. (high demand)
2. Sells more cars year after year thus far (increaing supply
3. Maintains profit margins by keeping supply just a tick under demand (no discounts, this is why MINI would actually make less money if they sold more cars.....Look at GM . I would never buy a GM based solely on the fact re-sale value drops like a rock.)

This perfect balance is what every buisness trys to achieve but few do very well.
By this time in the beetle or PT product cycle you had dealers with excess inventory, begging people to take them away with discounts off sticker.

MINI so far has got it %100 right.

I think MINI will increase demand by refining the car and adding the HP potential, supply will match this, MSRP will tick up only at the same rate it has thus far (i.e. $500 base + $100 option every 2-3yrs) I say we wont see much change at all.

 

FYI - $80 x 80 /= $16000. It's $6400, but your point is made.

 

I see that shortly after the MINI S appeared, and spanked the handling abilities of every other car in its market, Mitsu Evo and Subie WRX upped the ante with more HP and better handling, granted price followed upward.
These cars do not necessarily compete directly with MINI, but does anyone see MINI coming out with a multi-hundred HP car to keep up with the general market?
I would like to see a MINI putting 250 on the crank stock--aside from JCW. Would be a scary car...

dan

 

Spanked EVERY other car? Doubtful. Go see an Elise

2007 JCW turbos figures are out on MINI2 ...220 bhp. Thats only 10 more than today.

 

UMMM OK.....you dont get out much do you? I see your point about stock vs. stock but look at the dollar differences in those cars from ours. I can easly add 4-5k to our car which will bring the overall prices together and kill either car straight up stock.

Please dont bring up the WRX like that car is the sh*t.....My last car which was a 02 Nissan Spec V KILLED it on the track when they tested them both back in 02' so that doesnt say much cuz my Nissan is a POS compared to my MINI.

 

Hmm based solely on the speculative info surrounding the recent '07 video at the track, the 110 HP maybe going into the MINI One which is Europe Only.
Seems strange, they already have a 90hp MINI One, but if that's the case, the U.S. models would all be turbocharged at 140HP and 170HP.

I'm interested in the fuel economy of the new motors as I'm want to buy a car with good fuel economy that happens to be very fun to drive. The current MCs are 28/36ish and the new were rumored to add 6-8 mpg to all models across the board.

 

Don't get me wrong: I don't worship any of these cars--except the MINI, of course, ha ha. However, the basic point is that I would like to see a stocker MINI out there with a big wallop of HP. I guess if JCW puts out 250 at some point in the future... that would satisfy me.

Point taken about the Elise. I didn't really consider that in class with the MINI. I do recall, though, that when the S came out there were 3 cars in production that would out-slalom it. Two of them were Porsches, the third slips my mind. That's where I based my comment.

I look forward to the turbo S. I will need evidence to the contrary before I become a hater, skeptic, whatever-you-call-it.

dan

 

easy on the turbo s comment... its way to close to the beetle...