Actually the turbo is a restriction in the exhaust path.. there is no free lunch with either setup. The lower compression and 1.6L engine work against you at off-idle...
It improved with the reduciton pulley... I'm going to do the VGS and some programming... It should improve the mighty 1.6L a bit...

 

naturally....

I meant it's not a drag on power for the motor itself like an accessory is.

 

I hear frequently about how modern turbo technology has eliminated noticable turbo lag. I'd love to experience this for myself. My only experience in a turbo car with a relatively small engine producing 100hp/L+ has been in an '05 Subaru WRX that we test drove. Didn't like the non-linear power delivery below 4500rpm. The Volvo V50 T5 that we drove had much better drivability, but uses a larger engine with less power/displacement.

I'm also wondering how that variable valve timing/lift will affect the MINI experience. I've driven good (Volvo: seamless) and bad (Honda: Jeckyl-to-Hyde transformation at the sky-high engine speeds where the more aggressive cam lobes start working) examples.

An MCS with turbo lag and split personality variable cams would sadden me. Also, is anyone else wondering how the new all aluminum engine will cope with the the big, cheap power increases that some are anticipating?

 

I currently have an 06 WRX although I've driven a few 04 and 05's and I could have never bought one of those cars as they were lag city. The 06 has the same turbo but an extra 500cc's of displacement which almost eliminates all the lag. I have full boost by 2500.

The new aluminum engine should be fine as long as it has a forged crank, pistons and rods as long as you're running a good tune. Generally speaking most modern turbo engines seem to work well upto about 1.5 times their original power output whicif not more. For what I want it should be more then enough
Mike

 

I drove an Evo for 2 years. Lag was totally a function of engine speed: no lag above 3500 RPM. So, if you wanted to "go", and were cruising at 2500 RPM's you could floor it and wait, or downshift and launch immediately.

 

What bhp does the current WRX produce? I haven't driven one, but I imagine that the extra displacement would improve upon the driving characteristics. The V50's straight 5 has the same displacement, produces 218bhp, and makes peak torque at 1900rpm via turbocharging and variable intake and exhaust valve timing/lift. Lag is evident if you floor it at low revs, but ceases to be an issue under normal, spirited driving. The V50/S40 T5s (and the current WRX?) both fall below the 100hp/L mark.

Supercharged MCSs in ultimate factory tune far exceed the 100bhp/L standard with wonderfully linear power delivery. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think that this characteristic will be sorely missing in future itterations of the MCS.

Also, It's worth mentioning that while turbocharging technology has progressed much over the years, so too has supercharging. The bypass valves which allow our SCs to essentially freewheel 99% of the time that we are driving result in a fuel economy penalty which is quite reasonable given the pertformance advantage over the NA Cooper. The M45 is lightyears ahead of the Shorrock and Judsobn blowers of yore in this regard.

 

not sure about the corrected SAE figures for the new 2.5L WRX, but the stock Legacy GT is 243hp/243tq (old ratings were 250/250). The short block is the same as the STi's 293hp mill, with the differences being the smaller VF40 turbo, intake plenum and intercooler (STi's have put down 400+ on stock bottom ends). The WRX and Forester XT use similar powerplants, but lower rated power (223hp?). The JDM 2.0L motors for the STi and Legacy use twinscroll VF38's and spool is even better.

What's great about turbo motors is the ease of making power. For our Legacy GT, a new bellmouth downpipe with high flow cat, header with catless up-pipe, and software produces 290hp and 330tq at the wheels. Figure crank ratings around 340hp/380tq out of 2.5 liters for about $1700 spent and factory levels of reliability.

 

Although the Lovelace blower of the early 70s was quite impressive.

 

Turbo = common as chips.
Supercharger = only the cool kids have one.



As for the ERA Turbo, it was a later model thing, and I don't think all that many were produced. It would be fairly easy to make a "clone" though that you could bring into the country. They make the ERA Turbo body kit under a few names nowadays.

 

I'm sorry to disappoint some of you but while you might hear the turbo spooling when you get on it, it's highly unlikely it will come with an atmospheric Blow Off Valve from the factory, very few cars do. I know my friends VDuB, doesn't have one stock, he had to add one. More than likely it will dump via the intake manifold (like our current bypass valve) or the exhaust, in both cases nothing much will be heard.

Mikey

 

Blow Off Valves... LETS RICE. Hehehe. I'm just sad 'caues the MINI is going to slip into the "just another turbo 4 banger" category for me.

 

Once again the supercharger/turbo debate isn't settled. I have a Saab and the Mini. I didn't realize my issue with the Saab was turbo lag. . . I just thought the seat didn't hold my butt in as well. It does have a way of shooting forward at an accelerating rate of acceleration. I find the MINI easier to control on windy roads . . . I need to move my foot around to control the boost in the Saab.

I know there are many more expensive and faster cars than either the MINI or the Saab. But I give a lot of credence to what some Cooper drivers have mentioned, that it takes skill to run with Cooper S's since they need to keep their momentum up. To run a turbo porsche as hard as I run the MINI, I'd be going way to fast to be on the street.

Oh, I love the idea of the new MINI with variable valve timing, aluminum block and so forth. I do like the supercharger just because it is special but realize that mass production doesn't like special. I worry the suspension is being simplified (as in production cost) but don't know if this is true. I suspect it will be a fun car and look forward to welcoming the 07 owners into the fold.

 

I guess when it comes down to it I prefer the more linear delivery of the supercharger vs the "peaky" delivery of the turbo. As BB said, it seems easier to drive it, because it's more predictable.

 

I think the new thing with MINI tuners will be twin turbos. This seems to be very efficient. My friends 911 Turbo has them. Very nice because you have lots of power down low, and when that second one kicks in, well, you get < 11 sec 1/4 mile times.

Expect the prices of cylinder head modifications, ie M7, Pilo, and Webb, to go WAY up. Why? Because if they want to go all out performance wise, you'll need iron internals, aluminum won't be able to handle the temperatures of 25+ psi boost. I suspect they'll do options or different stages of head modification, having iron internals be the last or near the last step.

As for blow of valves i would get the one that sounds like a pigeon, I don't know which one that is, but my friends RX-7 has one, that or a HKS standard, or "Mallard" BOV, would be the *****.

Mikey

 

...twin turbos on a 4 cylinder engine? That seems like a loooooooot of expensive hardware. :(

 

expensive and complicated is right. and not necessarily better than a properly matched single twinscroll. For example:



Everything was custom and tuning hasn't yielded benefits greater than a simpler solution. Yet. It's still a work in progress. The goal was two small turbo's for good low-end spool, but currently boost comes on at 4500rpm (higher than stock for the 2.0L :( )

BOV's are generally noisemakers, not about performance. Few people who own them have gone to more boost than the OEM one can handle.

 

a) YIPES to the photo above! Too...too...just too, and I mean that in a good way!

ba) I have a '99 SAAB Viggen and they "fixed"/"masked" the turbo lag with the chip, the nanosecond ;-) you started to get your foot into it, it cranked up the boost on your behalf

b2) It worked pretty well and the only time you could feel the lag was when you were doing a straight line autocross run,

c) (like the one during the free day at Road Atlanta) there were many advantages to buying that car, reliability just wasn't one of them, so it went the day before it went out of warranty

d) Back on topic, my Mustang buddies all seem to run factory and Kenne Bell Superchargers on their 'stangs and are quite happy doing so, for what it's worth

e) Great thread you guys, good to see a lively debate not turn stoopid...

 

Okay I'm around the turbo crowd quite a bit, hence all my limited knowledge on turbos. Almost everyone one of my tuning buddies has one except for my friend who has a black KB Tuned Cobra. I have heard this "twinscroll" word tossed around alot, how is it different from a normal turbo?

Mikey

 

my non-expert explanation (and some info from a quick google search): a twin scroll turbo has basically two paths....two different sized scrolls are used for the primary and secondary. A small primary scroll is open for low speed operation and the secondary scroll is opened for high speed, high gas flow operations.

 

The turbo was the reason I rushed to get an 06 JCW. Don't want one. Running in SCCA Solo 2, is don't need (however slight) a throttle lag, and the power coming on just as I want to lift off the throttle.

 

The new Cooper S should have full boost by 1500rpm's so all of you that are worried about lag have very little to worry about. According to the peugeot technical document the base turbo 4, not the one in the cooper s, has full boost by 1400rpm's and I'd expect something similiar
Mike

 

I am thrilled that the new Mini will be a turbo because I live at high altitude and power loss is much less significant with turbos than blowers or normally aspirated cars. As far as lag is concerned, if the design is at all like volkwagons 2.0 that should be of little or no concern. I have driven the 2.0 several times and felt no lag whatsoever. I was certain I was going to buy a GTI until I heard the next mini will have a turbo. Now I am thinking of waiting to test the next mini.