R56 R53 versus R56... a visual study
#451
vladimir, you definitely need to keep driving your R53, buddy!!
What I think is sad is that some owners have chosen to allow their opinions of R56 design to be so extremely polarize that they 1) can't look an R56 in the face w/ out becoming sick, 2) allow themselves to become disassociated with the MINI community over it, 3) carelessly offend new owners/enthisuasts now buying R56s. I'm all for personal preferences, but R50/53 and R56 are not so dissimilar as to cause such excessive angst and drama.
To those buying (or planning to buy) R56s: the car is great!!
What I think is sad is that some owners have chosen to allow their opinions of R56 design to be so extremely polarize that they 1) can't look an R56 in the face w/ out becoming sick, 2) allow themselves to become disassociated with the MINI community over it, 3) carelessly offend new owners/enthisuasts now buying R56s. I'm all for personal preferences, but R50/53 and R56 are not so dissimilar as to cause such excessive angst and drama.
To those buying (or planning to buy) R56s: the car is great!!
#452
Tigger:
I could not agree with you more. I promised myself to post never again in this site, but your comments and Vladimir's clearly echo my feelings towards the R56 (And I am not alone in this regard as I keep receiving more PMs supporting this train of taught) and the high degree of intolerance exhibited by some newbie posters and NAM moderators (Who shall rename nameless) that will make use of their given "powers"to discredit and silence those of us who share a different perspective on the new car
If you criticize the R56 you are labeled a "troll" and consequently put on a "watch list"of ïnfidel NAM posters"who dare to express their opinion contrary to the "herd". NAM and Motoringfile are such places where criticism of the R56 is met with fierce resistance by its hosts. Even if you are not braking a single one of their precious "Site Guidelines"you will be quickly dealt with and silenced because "You are making new R56 posters feel unwelcome and initimidated"Give me a ****ing brake! What we have come to?
The MCO and NAM of yesteryear were sites that allowed debate and different point of views. That not such the case anymore! This is why I believe these sites no longer present unbiased points of view.
I feel very hurt by the unfair treatment provided by NAM's management, hence my decision to forever leave this place after 5 years. I do miss greatly that old Minicooperonline.com message board where everybody freely shared their points of view and experiences in a friendly and courteous atmosphere without resorting to personal attacks and heavy handed moderation
MINI knows that the R56 design has compromises that will sooner or later aliniate their loyal customer base. This car has a carcophany of design issues that are unacceptable from a company that so successfully brought back to life the MINI after what it looked like a terminal death
So those are my taughts fellas. Thread lightly around here and watch every word your type because you are being closely watched and if you don't share NAM's or Motoringfile's love feast with the R56 you will be singled out and made to look like a troublemaker.
How sad.
Hasta la Vista NAM.
I could not agree with you more. I promised myself to post never again in this site, but your comments and Vladimir's clearly echo my feelings towards the R56 (And I am not alone in this regard as I keep receiving more PMs supporting this train of taught) and the high degree of intolerance exhibited by some newbie posters and NAM moderators (Who shall rename nameless) that will make use of their given "powers"to discredit and silence those of us who share a different perspective on the new car
If you criticize the R56 you are labeled a "troll" and consequently put on a "watch list"of ïnfidel NAM posters"who dare to express their opinion contrary to the "herd". NAM and Motoringfile are such places where criticism of the R56 is met with fierce resistance by its hosts. Even if you are not braking a single one of their precious "Site Guidelines"you will be quickly dealt with and silenced because "You are making new R56 posters feel unwelcome and initimidated"Give me a ****ing brake! What we have come to?
The MCO and NAM of yesteryear were sites that allowed debate and different point of views. That not such the case anymore! This is why I believe these sites no longer present unbiased points of view.
I feel very hurt by the unfair treatment provided by NAM's management, hence my decision to forever leave this place after 5 years. I do miss greatly that old Minicooperonline.com message board where everybody freely shared their points of view and experiences in a friendly and courteous atmosphere without resorting to personal attacks and heavy handed moderation
MINI knows that the R56 design has compromises that will sooner or later aliniate their loyal customer base. This car has a carcophany of design issues that are unacceptable from a company that so successfully brought back to life the MINI after what it looked like a terminal death
So those are my taughts fellas. Thread lightly around here and watch every word your type because you are being closely watched and if you don't share NAM's or Motoringfile's love feast with the R56 you will be singled out and made to look like a troublemaker.
How sad.
Hasta la Vista NAM.
Criticizing the R56 is absolutely fine ...but have a little tact guys. Some have called the R56 grotesque. Doesn't that sound a tad inflammatory to you? Of course a statement like that will be met with fierce resistance. How about simply saying you don't like a certain aspect of the car, rather than calling it hideous, constipated, insipid or bulbous.
C4, you and all the other R56 detractors are absolutely, positively entitled to your views and I, for one, want to hear them ...just try to be gentlemen and a bit more civil when you express them.
Also, keep in mind that we, the enthusiasts, have never been BMWs customer base. We are the minority of MINI owners and they are now catering to the majority of MINI owners. Remember, they took the burble out of the car because of rampant complaints from US owners. Do you for one minute think that anyone on NAM complained about the burble? Of course not.
I'm willing to bet the R56 will far outsell all of its predecessors and who can fault BMW for wanting to do that? And what are the enthusiasts to do? How about simply change what you don't like. Its not like every R53 ran around in stock form ...guys modded the crap out of them to turn them into a car they liked better. Just as the R56 is not perfect, neither was the R53.
Lastly, please don't label all of us R56 guys as intolerant of opinions that differ from yours. Actually, you shouldn't even label all of us R56 guys ...I'm a MINI guy ...I love them all and would have happily bought an R53 if they still made them. I welcome all opinions, I just find the condescending manner in which they are often expressed to be very annoying and harmful to the community spirit.
So, consider sticking around, rather than leaving. Don't change your opinions, just change the way you express them.
dean.
#453
Not necessisarily. There are some who just won't go for it no matter what. MINI will loose a few and gain a few. Just the nature of change.
There are a ton of conflicting opinions out there about the R56. Some real polar opposites, too! What do you choose to believe? The interior is cheaper, or the interior uses better materials and is more solid? The handling isn't as good, or the handling is better than before? Less road feel, or just as good? Poor power delivery up top with no chance of mods, or power to spare with tons of torque and a bright future in the aftermarket... ugly, beautiful?
Don't hang on all the opinions out there... just get some seat time and decide for yourself. Old, new, convertable, hard top, sunroof, auto, CVT, 6-speed, turbo, supercharged, NA, whatever... there's a MINI out there for everyone!
There are a ton of conflicting opinions out there about the R56. Some real polar opposites, too! What do you choose to believe? The interior is cheaper, or the interior uses better materials and is more solid? The handling isn't as good, or the handling is better than before? Less road feel, or just as good? Poor power delivery up top with no chance of mods, or power to spare with tons of torque and a bright future in the aftermarket... ugly, beautiful?
Don't hang on all the opinions out there... just get some seat time and decide for yourself. Old, new, convertable, hard top, sunroof, auto, CVT, 6-speed, turbo, supercharged, NA, whatever... there's a MINI out there for everyone!
vladimir, you definitely need to keep driving your R53, buddy!!
What I think is sad is that some owners have chosen to allow their opinions of R56 design to be so extremely polarize that they 1) can't look an R56 in the face w/ out becoming sick, 2) allow themselves to become disassociated with the MINI community over it, 3) carelessly offend new owners/enthisuasts now buying R56s. I'm all for personal preferences, but R50/53 and R56 are not so dissimilar as to cause such excessive angst and drama.
To those buying (or planning to buy) R56s: the car is great!!
What I think is sad is that some owners have chosen to allow their opinions of R56 design to be so extremely polarize that they 1) can't look an R56 in the face w/ out becoming sick, 2) allow themselves to become disassociated with the MINI community over it, 3) carelessly offend new owners/enthisuasts now buying R56s. I'm all for personal preferences, but R50/53 and R56 are not so dissimilar as to cause such excessive angst and drama.
To those buying (or planning to buy) R56s: the car is great!!
dean.
#455
Dean:
Go back and re-read some of my posts. They were civil (As it was admitted first hand by the site moderator on a PM) and I challenge you to find any words such as "Constipated", "Bulbous"and such in any of my previous posts.
Perhaps this does not apply to you personally, but in the big scheme of things, the majority of R56 newbies here are very defensive of their car even if they are presented with a civil and respectful argument. You know what they do? Flood the moderator's inbox with complaints and whines because they feel Öh, so intimidated!
So don't take it so personal Dean. In Fact I don't find you to be in that camp at all. Trinity07 is another R56 newbie that has expressed his support and in despite of differing views he valued my input in this forum.
Skiploder or Chris Neal have not posted here in the past week. I suspect they too were silenced in despite of their civil debate.
Let's face it Dean, neither NAM nor Motoringfile are tolerant of what they perceive as critique of the R56.
Go back and re-read some of my posts. They were civil (As it was admitted first hand by the site moderator on a PM) and I challenge you to find any words such as "Constipated", "Bulbous"and such in any of my previous posts.
Perhaps this does not apply to you personally, but in the big scheme of things, the majority of R56 newbies here are very defensive of their car even if they are presented with a civil and respectful argument. You know what they do? Flood the moderator's inbox with complaints and whines because they feel Öh, so intimidated!
So don't take it so personal Dean. In Fact I don't find you to be in that camp at all. Trinity07 is another R56 newbie that has expressed his support and in despite of differing views he valued my input in this forum.
Skiploder or Chris Neal have not posted here in the past week. I suspect they too were silenced in despite of their civil debate.
Let's face it Dean, neither NAM nor Motoringfile are tolerant of what they perceive as critique of the R56.
#456
I agree, there is a lot to be sad about. But, I otherwise disagree.
Criticizing the R56 is absolutely fine ...but have a little tact guys. Some have called the R56 grotesque. Doesn't that sound a tad inflammatory to you? Of course a statement like that will be met with fierce resistance. How about simply saying you don't like a certain aspect of the car, rather than calling it hideous, constipated, insipid or bulbous.
C4, you and all the other R56 detractors are absolutely, positively entitled to your views and I, for one, want to hear them ...just try to be gentlemen and a bit more civil when you express them.
Also, keep in mind that we, the enthusiasts, have never been BMWs customer base. We are the minority of MINI owners and they are now catering to the majority of MINI owners. Remember, they took the burble out of the car because of rampant complaints from US owners. Do you for one minute think that anyone on NAM complained about the burble? Of course not.
I'm willing to bet the R56 will far outsell all of its predecessors and who can fault BMW for wanting to do that? And what are the enthusiasts to do? How about simply change what you don't like. Its not like every R53 ran around in stock form ...guys modded the crap out of them to turn them into a car they liked better. Just as the R56 is not perfect, neither was the R53.
Lastly, please don't label all of us R56 guys as intolerant of opinions that differ from yours. Actually, you shouldn't even label all of us R56 guys ...I'm a MINI guy ...I love them all and would have happily bought an R53 if they still made them. I welcome all opinions, I just find the condescending manner in which they are often expressed to be very annoying and harmful to the community spirit.
So, consider sticking around, rather than leaving. Don't change your opinions, just change the way you express them.
dean.
Criticizing the R56 is absolutely fine ...but have a little tact guys. Some have called the R56 grotesque. Doesn't that sound a tad inflammatory to you? Of course a statement like that will be met with fierce resistance. How about simply saying you don't like a certain aspect of the car, rather than calling it hideous, constipated, insipid or bulbous.
C4, you and all the other R56 detractors are absolutely, positively entitled to your views and I, for one, want to hear them ...just try to be gentlemen and a bit more civil when you express them.
Also, keep in mind that we, the enthusiasts, have never been BMWs customer base. We are the minority of MINI owners and they are now catering to the majority of MINI owners. Remember, they took the burble out of the car because of rampant complaints from US owners. Do you for one minute think that anyone on NAM complained about the burble? Of course not.
I'm willing to bet the R56 will far outsell all of its predecessors and who can fault BMW for wanting to do that? And what are the enthusiasts to do? How about simply change what you don't like. Its not like every R53 ran around in stock form ...guys modded the crap out of them to turn them into a car they liked better. Just as the R56 is not perfect, neither was the R53.
Lastly, please don't label all of us R56 guys as intolerant of opinions that differ from yours. Actually, you shouldn't even label all of us R56 guys ...I'm a MINI guy ...I love them all and would have happily bought an R53 if they still made them. I welcome all opinions, I just find the condescending manner in which they are often expressed to be very annoying and harmful to the community spirit.
So, consider sticking around, rather than leaving. Don't change your opinions, just change the way you express them.
dean.
#457
Dean:
Go back and re-read some of my posts. They were civil (As it was admitted first hand by the site moderator on a PM) and I challenge you to find any words such as "Constipated", "Bulbous"and such in any of my previous posts.
Perhaps this does not apply to you personally, but in the big scheme of things, the majority of R56 newbies here are very defensive of their car even if they are presented with a civil and respectful argument. You know what they do? Flood the moderator's inbox with complaints and whines because they feel Öh, so intimidated!
So don't take it so personal Dean. In Fact I don't find you to be in that camp at all. Trinity07 is another R56 newbie that has expressed his support and in despite of differing views he valued my input in this forum.
Skiploder or Chris Neal have not posted here in the past week. I suspect they too were silenced in despite of their civil debate.
Let's face it Dean, neither NAM nor Motoringfile are tolerant of what they perceive as critique of the R56.
Go back and re-read some of my posts. They were civil (As it was admitted first hand by the site moderator on a PM) and I challenge you to find any words such as "Constipated", "Bulbous"and such in any of my previous posts.
Perhaps this does not apply to you personally, but in the big scheme of things, the majority of R56 newbies here are very defensive of their car even if they are presented with a civil and respectful argument. You know what they do? Flood the moderator's inbox with complaints and whines because they feel Öh, so intimidated!
So don't take it so personal Dean. In Fact I don't find you to be in that camp at all. Trinity07 is another R56 newbie that has expressed his support and in despite of differing views he valued my input in this forum.
Skiploder or Chris Neal have not posted here in the past week. I suspect they too were silenced in despite of their civil debate.
Let's face it Dean, neither NAM nor Motoringfile are tolerant of what they perceive as critique of the R56.
Thanks for the reply.
dean.
#458
Newbie to Nam but Cooper owner since March 03. The fact is the opinions both pro and con are represented by approximately a dozen people expressly on this thread. The vast majority of people never post there opinions one way or another. I loved my 03 MINI more than any car I have ever owned. I am sure I will love my new Cooper S as much or more. Mini has designed an improved car that will appeal to the masses not necessarily the MINI enthusiasts or fanatics. Nothing wrong if you are one. Bottom line for me. I think overall the new R56 is a superior car and I upgraded to a 2007. Your choice. Buy it or don't. If you love MINI eventually you will move on to an 07,08,etc. If not Honda,VW,Mazda whatever. The choice is yours but please be respectfull to all MINI people. Most of us love are cars and someone other than the experts are unlikely to change our minds.
#459
It's interesting to see such open critisism of the R56 as I'm finding, amongst the MINI forum that I normally visit, open criticism of the R56's design is simply not acceptable, or even tolerated, any more The implication is that, if you don't like it, there must be something wrong with you!
The high degree of intolerance exhibited by some newbie posters and NAM moderators (Who shall rename nameless) that will make use of their given "powers" to discredit and silence those of us who share a different perspective on the new car
If you criticize the R56 you are labeled a "troll" and consequently put on a "watch list"of ïnfidel NAM posters"who dare to express their opinion contrary to the "herd". NAM and Motoringfile are such places where criticism of the R56 is met with fierce resistance by its hosts. Even if you are not braking a single one of their precious "Site Guidelines"you will be quickly dealt with and silenced because "You are making new R56 posters feel unwelcome and initimidated"Give me a ****ing brake! What we have come to?
The MCO and NAM of yesteryear were sites that allowed debate and different point of views. That not such the case anymore! This is why I believe these sites no longer present unbiased points of view.
If you criticize the R56 you are labeled a "troll" and consequently put on a "watch list"of ïnfidel NAM posters"who dare to express their opinion contrary to the "herd". NAM and Motoringfile are such places where criticism of the R56 is met with fierce resistance by its hosts. Even if you are not braking a single one of their precious "Site Guidelines"you will be quickly dealt with and silenced because "You are making new R56 posters feel unwelcome and initimidated"Give me a ****ing brake! What we have come to?
The MCO and NAM of yesteryear were sites that allowed debate and different point of views. That not such the case anymore! This is why I believe these sites no longer present unbiased points of view.
I feel very hurt by the unfair treatment provided by NAM's management, hence my decision to forever leave this place after 5 years. I do miss greatly that old Minicooperonline.com message board where everybody freely shared their points of view and experiences in a friendly and courteous atmosphere without resorting to personal attacks and heavy handed moderation
Despite your request to have your account completely deleted and all of your posts wiped, we haven't done it. Why? Because it isn't warranted. Because we believe you are making a rash and knee-jerk decision, and we hope you will come to realize that and stay an active member. Just one who isn't so excessively rabid about his hatred for the R56.
We're not asking you to change your mind, we're not asking you to leave. All we asked you to do is chill out a bit.For the record... I do agree that some R56 owners (or soon-to-be owners) are overly sensitive about negative R56 opinions. And I hope they "toughen up" about it too. But there's a balance on both ends that needs to be achieved, and constant R56-bashing isn't helping matters.
#460
#461
I'm not here to judge. Just learn abuout the car and poeple - even you.
I think we should tell MINI to maybe bump their 10 billion combo slogan to like 10 trillion... each owner is theio own combionatin of the car.. making it even more dynamic..
I got a call from my german MA today - Java (this might be her new name) said she has arrived (: I should take delivery in about a week.
Got my insurance squared away
Got my bank work all taken care of
And made a new friend on NAM - all in a days work..
motor on.... ppl
#462
I just hope you guys have extended the same chill-out courtesy request to new posters (actually I can only think of one but I will not name them) who have been adamantly attacking the R53 & starting threads with the sole purpose of bashing & riling 1st gen owners because I am still seeing the inflamatory posts
#463
#464
I really hope all this bickering comes to an end soon. I dont understand any of the extreme bashing going on on either side. Some of the newbies are too sensitive because they love their new cars and the vets are defensive because virtually every review talks about how the R56 is better than their cars. Im pretty sure for the vast majority of the R56 owners (present and future), the 1st gen Mini is what attracted us in the first place. I hate the idea of losing some of the veteran posters around here because they have the most working knowledge of our cars and have valuable input. Hopefully we can all learn to put ourselves in other people's shoes before reacting and going off the deep end.
#465
Unless by "MINI forum that I normally visit" meant another one? MINI2? µ? It's OK to say them by name. If you were talking about another site, not NAM... then my apologies... but I think perhaps C4 misunderstood which forum you meant too, with his response.
#468
#470
Am I the only one who likes them both? Honestly, I went to the launch event and didn't think the R56 looked anything like the pictures. I loved the interior, I probably like the exterior of the R53 better, and would have to autocross one to decide which one I ultimately liked better.
that is the big one to me. If the R56 beats the R53 in G stock in the next couple of years, then I can't see how you could say it is inferior.
Looks are just opinions, you can like it or not, doesn't matter.
that is the big one to me. If the R56 beats the R53 in G stock in the next couple of years, then I can't see how you could say it is inferior.
Looks are just opinions, you can like it or not, doesn't matter.
#471
Am I the only one who likes them both? Honestly, I went to the launch event and didn't think the R56 looked anything like the pictures. I loved the interior, I probably like the exterior of the R53 better, and would have to autocross one to decide which one I ultimately liked better.
that is the big one to me. If the R56 beats the R53 in G stock in the next couple of years, then I can't see how you could say it is inferior.
Looks are just opinions, you can like it or not, doesn't matter.
that is the big one to me. If the R56 beats the R53 in G stock in the next couple of years, then I can't see how you could say it is inferior.
Looks are just opinions, you can like it or not, doesn't matter.
I agree about the interior of the R56 ...it is so much better in real life than in the pictures. I find the same is true of the exterior. All of my objections were alleviated when I saw it in person.
dean.
#472
Actually, the remainder of the post I quoted said nothing more about the site, only your own impressions of the R56. This is the post we are talking about. I only quoted the part that talked about the site... and I especially did so because it was your post that triggered C4's post... which is the other one I quoted and replied to!
Unless by "MINI forum that I normally visit" meant another one? MINI2? µ? It's OK to say them by name. If you were talking about another site, not NAM... then my apologies... but I think perhaps C4 misunderstood which forum you meant too, with his response.
Unless by "MINI forum that I normally visit" meant another one? MINI2? µ? It's OK to say them by name. If you were talking about another site, not NAM... then my apologies... but I think perhaps C4 misunderstood which forum you meant too, with his response.
Yes, I was definately referring to another site, not NAM. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Tigger.
#474
I'd venture to guess most of us do, especially after the nice R56 reviews and visits to the showroom. Really, it's just a means of continuing my enthusiasm for MINIs which I expect to carry over to new models as they become available.
#475
I think that a few people are getting bent out of shape over nothing. Everyone has opinons. They're all valid . . . as opinions. Anyone that takes the opinionated words of someone as fact that they feel the need to get upset over, needs to have his own head examined (this is just an expression - please don't have a cow over it), imho. 'Oh, my God, 'Johnny Bravo' doesn't like the car that I like! AAAAUUUUGGGHH!!!' Puh-lease.
Zip
Zip