At the risk of sounding heretical, the 2007 R32 is going to be a reality (5,000 unit allocation for the U.S. in 2007). It will have 250 hp, DSG transmission (DSG is similar to SMG on BMWs) and Haldex AWD.

Frankly, with that mix of features, the R56 (Gen II) MINI is looking a bit wanting. Earlier today, I had the opportunity to test drive a 2006 2.0T GTI with the DSG transmission. The DSG tranny blows away SMG-II on the BMW. The shifting is almost instantaneous, no harshness up or down shifting, the automatic shift mode rivals a torque converter-based automatic transmission for smoothness, and, and, and. Add in the Haldex AWD, and the R56 MINI is starting to look like the 1986 318 sedan in comparison to the 1986 GTI - the GTI would run away and hide from the 318 sedan (I know, I owned a 1986 GTI in 1986).

The only thing holding me back from putting down a deposit on the 2007 R32 is concern regarding the build quality of the recent VWs. But then again, if I were to lease the car, I could get some measure of protection from the build quality risk....

Any thoughts/comments?

 

The R32 (No GTI) is a HEAVY beast And as with all of VAG's cars, they tend to push (understear) in the twisty bits. THAT (IMO) is gonna be where the R56 will beat out the MKV R32 Now, if you want a Bahn-Brenner that'll give you the same confidence in dry/wet/slush then I think the R32 will be a sweet choice

Just my 2 cents

Edit: The GTI is a different animal so I can't really comment too much on it.

 

How is the R32 that much heavier? Haldex AWD is typically an extra 200 lbs on the Volvos that I have seen it installed on. Yes, 200 lbs. is 200 additional lbs., but still, it is not as if the 200 lbs were part of the wheels & tires of the car. Plus there is the ~70 additional hp of the R32 vs. the R56. Add in the JCW kit, and the advantage drops but is still there for the R32.

 

A more fair comparison would be the R56 JCW which is suppose to be in the neighborhood of 230 HP.

Also, VW.com lists the GTI as 3100 lbs curb weight. With another 200 lbs, for AWD, we're up to 3300. The R56 MCS has a curb weight of roughly 2700 lbs. That puts us with about a 500 lbs difference.

So, for similar priced models, you get a 500 lbs lighter car with 230 HP versus 250 HP one with AWD.

That would at least compare the top end of each range and models in a similar price point, rather than comparing a $21k entry level MCS to a $32k+ top of the line Golf/GTI.

 

Maybe your situation is different, but every time I looked into leasing a car it always seemed like a massive rip-off.

 

VW lists the R32's weight at between 1510 and 1590 Kg. That would make it between 3,328 and 3,505 lbs. Not to mention that heavy 3.2 lump right up front makes the car want to push through every turn. My A3 had the same Haldex setup (only Gen1 ) and the 1.8T and I had the same issue. I never really took much notice until we bought the MCS and I realized just how much that extra weight (Especially front loaded) affected handling

I'm not saying the Mini's better (or that the 07 MCS will be better) just... different I really like the R32 and if they had offered a US spec MKV last December, I very well might be driving one now.

Another 2 cents puts me to 4

 

Disreguarding everything but the fun factor: In general, if you want to drive fast (high speeds) in poor conditions, get the R32. If you want to drive quick (high Gs at lower speeds) in dry conditions then get the MINI.

 

I'm not a DSG fan. Have driven a TT3.2, and two different 3.2 A3's with it, and it just does nothing for me. Call me old fashioned, but give me three pedals, must be a generational thing. That said, the old gen R32 has an enthusiastic following and I imagine the next gen will too. It will likely be more composed than the next gen MINI, nicer amenities consumerate with its price difference. But before writing your check, perhaps you should actually wait for the cars to come out here.

 

Having been a Volvo guy for my whole life, I wouldn't necessarily just jump on the Haldex bandwagon. I've never owned an AWD Volvo but from what I've heard, the early versions (ie. late 98-01 or 02) were pretty weak. They have supposedly improved in recent years, but it really depends on which Haldex system is put on the R32 GTI. And to echo what has been said about the weight of the VW. I almost bought a Rabbit before I ultimately decided on my MINI. I thought the 150hp Rabbit would blow the 115hp Cooper out of the water. But the MINI feels just as fast and responsive if not more so than the VW. I don't know if this applies to comparing the GTI and Cooper S, but its just something to think about...

This video is also something to consider. Everyone seems to have different takes on it so take it for what its worth when considering Haldex.

I can't get the link to work but if you want to copy and paste the url:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/06/...vs-subaru-awd/

 

And that (20 hp & 500 lbs less vs. 20 hp & 500 lbs more with AWD) is pretty much the crux of the question. Plus with the R32, you get DSG (which really has to be experienced to be appreciated) and less ride harshness (on 18 inch wheels), which should resonate for all the R53 owners that have had to deal with strut tower mushrooming and/or failed strut mounts. And, balanced against those benefits is the lingering bad taste of horrible customer service with VW. They (VW) are trying to turn that around, but it is an unanswered question at the moment.

It is an interesting dilemma, however.

 

Um, Volvo has gone through at least two iterations on the AWD thing. The original AWD implementation on the S70 (1999 & 2000 model year) was not Haldex, but rather a mechanical model. Haldex made its debut (at least on Volvos in the U.S.) with the 2002 model year (S60 AWD and maybe the V70 AWD & XC70). Volvo has since rolled the Haldex AWD out to its entire model line of passenger cars with the exception of the C70 and C30 models (again, U.S. models; there may be more/less extensive roll-out outside of the U.S., but I am not familiar with that). Net, net, Volvo has done some pretty extensive implementations of the Haldex AWD and by and large, it has been successful.

The greatest complaint I have had with Haldex-equipped Volvos has been the lack of the ability to revise the FWD (95/05) bias that Volvo specifies for the Haldex units in its cars. Haldex can certainly handle the output of the R32 - it handles 315 hp and something like 340 ft/lbs from the XC90 V8 with no problems. I certainly wouldn't pass on the R32 because of the Haldex AWD. If it is tunable front/rear, the Haldex AWD could be every bit as good as say the BMW X-Drive for traction-challenged surfaces.

 

This is probably the summation of the dilemma that caused me to start this thread. There are a few other collateral items (DSG, less ride harshness/potential exposure to the strut tower mushrooming and/or strut mount failure to name a couple), but that really seems to be the essence of the competitive challenge posed by the two cars.

 

If I could see into the future and could know with certainty that I wouldn't have a dud that I would have to dump in 3 to 4 years and take a bath on depreciation because the resale market was in the toilet, I would probably pass on a lease. However, I don't have the ability to see into the future and given the recent past with VWs, the last thin I would want to do is to take a chance on poor resale. A lease is the best way to avoid that risk.

 

It's been almost 4 years since I sold my GTI and I can still taste the flavor of VW customer service.

The best example was when all of the window regulators across the country were failing and windows were dropping into the doors left and right. I waited 2 months until parts were available, all the while driving around with a chunk of thick felt holding my window up, unable to roll it down or go through a drive-thru window.

I asked them to please repair BOTH windows so that I would not have to return again or wait for months for parts. They refused to do it and as I drove out of the dealer's service parking llot with my fixed driver's side window, the passenger side crashes into the door.

VW would have to do something truly amazing before I'd ever consider any of their vehicles again.

 

The problem with waiting for the cars to arrive is that the lines are already forming and dealers are taking deposits. When the cars actually arrive, they will pretty much have been sold. So, you won't even get the chance to test drive one until 2008 or later. Sound familiar (a la R53 MINI)?

 

Which was why I didn't put down a deposit yesterday. There is a lot of potential with the R32, but there is that issue of customer service....

 

I was on two dealer's lists for the original R32. After numerous delays making the car almost a year late to our shores, I dropped off and "settled" for a BMW 330ZHP (that was soon traded for a M3). Once the cars got here, there was an initial rush, but I think it took around 9 months for all 5000 to get sold. You'll be able to get one.

 

Yeah, sorry Customer Service is one of the reason's I didn't replace my 01 A3 with a Sportback

 

What's up with these German cars and window regulators? Can't they learn, over the course of decades, that their suppliers make crappy products? Case in point: as I'm getting both window regulators in my $25k 05 MCS replaced at 6K miles, a guy in the BMW shop is having both of his replaced on his $90K 6-series cabrio--at only 4k miles "this is a real bummer," his only words.

So many window regulator mechanisms on MINIs and BMWs at my dealership are replaced under warranty that there's often a back order: I was lucky to get the last two available, because the wait for more was pushing 3 weeks.

Simply unacceptable.

 

I want R32 real bad! Just can't wait so I got a GTI to play with for a while.

Forget the weight ratio...you have to drive one to understand. The power and torque on the GTI and R32 will make up for the weight. I feel like MINI is heavier from the stop and go, because of the low torque on the cooper S.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1GDpfTrrzw

 

Actually, it may be the R36 (for 3.6 lier V6 engine - 300 hp and ~280 ft/lbs.) if you believe some of the chatter. 300 hp with AWD would be rather compelling.

 

x 2 here, but i fear the GTIs with our mods are quicker than .:Rs

Different animals. .:R owns at the end

 

I don't get it either, every BMW we've had has been known to have window regulator issues and it never seems to change as if they do not alter the parts year to year and model to model:impatient That and subframe issues seem endemic to the marque

 

I am a little confused here. Are you referring to 2.0T GTIs with mods (presumably the APR chip upgrade) being faster than the R32? Or, that 2.0T GTIs with mods being faster than the R56 MINI? Or, ????

 

He said ".:R" and therefore referenced the VW