I have read many reviews of the new 2007 MINI. Several of them have described the ride, compared with the current model, as "more refined." Those same words were used in the mid 1970s when the beloved BMW 2002 gave way to the "more refined" BMW 320i. I had a 320i, I was very familiar with the 320i. The 320i was no 2002! IMO, a more refined MINI is analogous to a harder driving, better handling Bentley with manual transmission.. I'll reserve my final opinion until I drive a R56 but I remain cautiously pessimistic.

 

Just a word of warning, you are now going to be ripped to shreds by all the people waiting to order an 07 MINI, especially by those who have never owned a MINI before. You're not allowed to reserve judgement, if you don't praise the R56's name before you even see it and drive it, you will be called an "R53 elitist" and a "snob"

 

I am sure the R56 will be a better car for everyone except driving enthusiasts.

 

Clark: question is -- what about those who critique and complain of the R56 "before you even see it and drive it"?
If you think it's silly to praise the car before driving it, I'm sure you feel the same way about putting it down.
Bottom line is: we haven't seen it or driven it . . . so I'll just keep my eyes peeled on mini2 and see what they say across the pond as they get their R56s.

 

Well said. At the end of the day though we all have our own opinons. All we can really judge are aspects of the car that we see on paper. The tangible goods are open to interpretation, I'm sure there's someone out there who thinks the current MCS is a far better car the E46 M3, may sound ludicrous to some of us, but that's their interpretation of the driving experience.

 

It is part of the scientific method to hypothesize before testing. I may be wrong but it is fun to speculate.

 

Sure it is, and you're correct on the scientific method bit too.

 

 

^

eager2own, I'm not going to get in an argument about the R56. I was just warning Clemens that he would get his head ripped off for expressing concern about the new MINI. I have seen it on here for several months now, that anytime someone doesn't like something about the R56 they get jumped on. As I have mentioned repeatedly my stance has always been that I'm going to reserve judgement until I see and drive the car myself, but I feel that if someone wants to praise or criticize the new MINI they should be able to do so without being subject to personal attacks or unfair judgements by other NAM members(as I have seen in the past). Again, I was just warning Clemens that it could get ugly...

 

I agree, but I think R56 will probably generate it's own brand of enthusiast, too. When it comes to MINIs I'm not sure how precisely one can define "enthusiast" anyway, since the car appeals to so many people for so many reasons.

 

For a car to be financially successful it must appeal to the masses. Therefore the R56 had to be BMWized. A casualty of that process is the partial loss of the Mini's soul for the auto enthusiast.

 

I've heard of Holly Hobby, but who is Holly Crap? A JCW fan?

Yeah, I'm trying to do my best to stay neutral on the R56 and can only say that I'm not fond of some details I've seen in photos like the more reclining headlights poking through goggley cutouts in the bonnet with turn signals integrated. As much as prejudging it negatively before test driving/see it is rather baseless, I find it highly illogical for people (esp car enthusiasts) to have ordered it without any driving time and defend it for the same reason. As personal as the driving experience is I just could not justify committing to a normal production car with no seat time (the rule goes out the window of course with rare and/or limited exotic autos that I can't afford anyway ).

 

"Holly Crap!" - That's what happens when you leave the Christmas decorations up too long!


Larry, I believe the real issue here, since none of us have driven the car, is what the definition of "more refined" is. Remember Bill Clinton? C'mon, let's laugh! To some, "more refined" means MORE DIALED IN. Me, I'd never think of any Mini as a "luxury ride", so I'd take the words to mean UPGRADE and still a performance car. And wouldn't it be just silly to think of even a modern Mini as something you'd even try to compete with "luxury" autos with? No way a BMW built Mini is trying to be a Bentley...or a Lexus. You have to know that. Let's just agree that we don't know the definition of the term as used by the writer, or what his mental parameters are (howzat?) and wait and see. Another thing...IF this R56 turns out to not be sporty enough for the fanatics out there, I'm confident that the pieces to DIAL IT UP into a jumpy, harsh, hard riding, ball busting parts busting racer/noisemaker will be right along for those of you who can't handle a moment of peace and quiet during your ride time. The 02-06 models won't last forever, so it seems to me that EVERYONE with a serious interest should include the success of the R56 in their little Mini prayers each night, right after you've had your milk and cookies. Sleep tight now, you little rolling troublemakers LOL LOL.
It's a long way to February! UGH!
And in support of the hopefully terrific new R56, on which the future of the Mini line rests...THOSE VIDEOS OF THAT RED ONE SURE LOOKED LIKE HE WASN'T HAVING ANY PROBLEM WITH SERIOUS SIDEWAYS DRIFTS!! That is ALWAYS a good sign.
Again, don't fret boys, and don't lose sleep. AFTERMARKET TO THE RESCUE when you're "old timer" 02-06 finally buys the farm and you're forced into one of those (some would have us believe) "oh so cushy" R56 models. I just have a real problem believing that making the car what you want it to be won't be that hard, whether it's factory spec add-on parts or aftermarket.
And finally, (babble on) you could always go buy a heritage Mini shell and start work on a REAL MINI. Or buy a rusty hulk and start welding in panels on a ground up build. To me, THAT is a real Mini...built by Austin and Morris, sliding windows, twin SU's. This new stuff, it's just STUFF. BUT I WANT ONE!
And remember, AGAIN, the original Mini came to the world as a little throwaway econobox to compete against the likes of the VW bug. It had nothing to do with performance driving as it came initially to the world in the early sixties, but he ENTHUSIASTS started messing with it, and Austin said, "We can do that and make money", the Cooper was born out of this necessity, millions were sold, and the rest is history! So that fact that some folks might buy a "plain" little MC rather than an MCS, as a commuter car, should not be viewed as blasphemy just because some of us see ourselves as racers. It's a universal machine. Always was, always will be.
Sincerely,
a guy with a deposit in who likes em all (and misses his 62 Cooper)

BTW, the term "cautiously pessimistic" really cracked me up! LOL

 

[
Yes, but to appeal to the masses you need dealerships close at hand. BMW is going to need to get busy with more dealerships if this car is to succeed, old model, new model, whatever. Only dedicated lunatics (like you and me) will buy a car that requires a 150 mile round trip into serious city traffic to get service. I don't care how great it is, without a LOT more dealers, it's just not going to matter. The Mini WILL be a casualty if more dealers don't appear pronto! I'm an hour north of SF CA, (ON A GREAT DAY) and I've had plenty of friends tell me no way they'd buy a car that required a drive to Pleasanton for service/repair. THAT is the masses speaking, boys!
I'm told that to be a Mini dealer, a BMW dealer must build a complete separate free standing location, everything of it's own Mini origin. THAT requires some serious investment, a whole big team of new employees, etc. SERIOUSLY COMMITTED dealership attitude required. And BIG $$$
So I say to you, no matter how sweet the car, the dealerships MUST appear if the masses are to follow with checkbooks in hand. Now, tell me what you think... MINI can make it on MINI performance alone, or the dealership is the heart of the matter. I say the dealership is the lynch pin on which the whole future rests, no matter how cool/great the car.


quote=buzzsaw;1228060]For a car to be financially successful it must appeal to the masses. Therefore the R56 had to be BMWized. A casualty of that process is the partial loss of the Mini's soul for the auto enthusiast.[/quote]

 

too late for that
Thats why

 

I'm just saying that we can post our opinions on here without trying to judge or classify those whose opinion differs from ours.

So if Clemens' opinion is that only the R53 will be a true enthusiasts car, one can disagree but to call him a snob for having that opinion is an ad hominem argument.

 

Okay, I'll wade into the fray with my $.02! FWIT, when I weighed 150lbs in the sixties, I loved the "Austin" Mini and wanted one. The one I have on order now 06 MCSc is no more like the '68 than I am like the '68 model I once was. I'm bigger and so is the Mini, but it has "the look". and it has "the appeal", for whatever reason. As I've said before, there are faster, better handling, more luxurious out there, but bottom line is what makes you smile! The only thing constant is change! Enjoy motoring!!!

 

I was merely pointing out that, I was flamed for pointing out that some R53 enthusisasts would be distanced as a result of some of the changes to the R56.

 

I edited the thread's title to remove the seasonal reference.

 

I am going to have to agree with the dealership thing. Even at 45-60mins away, my closest dealership is still a thorn in my side for the potential future purchase.
I could have sworn that I have heard that the service dept is not open on weekends but their website says it is. I am not looking forward to wasting a saturday to get my oil changed. (or drive 2 cars out there). but i guess that is better than having to take time off work to do it.

 

While I do look forward to seeing and testing how the R56 may or may not improve on the R53, I'm not sure I understand several comments in this thread implying that MINI needs to change or adapt in order to succeed and compete with other manufacturers. By all accounts, the R53 has been a great success -- regardless of how the R56 holds up or improves. I'm not sure that change in this case is driven by a failure to appeal to American drivers. Afterall, how many non-exotic cars still sell for MSRP (or above in many cases) 4 or 5 years after introduction?

 

I do not know if the R56 will be an enthusiast car. I am only guessing. Also thanks for supporting my right to be a R53 snob. Sticks and stones ....but don't f*** with my R53.

 

heh... I think you managed to direct the flame your way, clark.

As a future R56 and non-R50/R53 owner, one of my concerns is being accepted by the MINI community. I anticipate participating in track days and MINI events such as MotD, and I don't want to encounter "R53" elitists who do not accept me into the community. I am/will be just as much of an enthusiast about the MINI as all those who have motored before me.

I am very hopeful that the R56 will be just as great a performer as the R50/R53. The wolf in sheep's clothing performance is what drew me to the car. Nearly every review seems to indicate that the performance is still there, but the "go-kart" feeling isn't the same. I'm hoping the Sports button remedies that.

Honestly, though, if used MINI prices were not as much as new MINI prices, I would probably get a low mileage 2005 or 2006 Cooper S. I just cannot justify paying as much or more for a one or two year old car than a new one off the lot.

 

This is one of the most >ahem< boneheaded statements I've ever seen posted on this forum. How, sir, can you arrive at such a summary judgement? How? Base on one comparison from one BMW model to the next?

Do (or did) you work for Rover? Are there issues? If so, here is help out there for you. Please seek it.

 

It was a joke Send me your email address and I'll email you a sense of humor. You obviously have not read any of my other posts. I've made many comments that are far more "boneheaded."