I'm seriously considering a 2007 MCS and am wondering if the issues raised in the following 2002 MCS long-term test report (23,000 total miles) have been addressed by MINI USA in the R56S?

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...ageNumber=14#5
Summing Up
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...ber=14#summing
Ups and Downs
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...eNumber=14#ups
Recalls and Problem History
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...ber=14#recalls

 

The referenced report is over three years old no longer a valid reference. Even if it were from yesterday, it would not apply to the substantially changed 07 models. New motor, new body, new interior and a lot of other new bits and bobs.
The items in the report were addressed over time except for the size related ones of course. The CVT which has been problematic in the base MINI is no longer available. I have an 04 MCS/JCW that gets its fair share of abuse and I have had no issues except for the battery which was replaced with a smile.

 

Yes, this report is about the previous MINI Cooper S model. The R56S is obviously too new for anyone to have such a long-term test (23k miles) which would be able to comment on reliability / durability issues.

It's encouraging to read that your 04 has been trouble-free.

 

What I forgot to say is that even though there are many here that will tell you to stay from the 07 until MINI gets the bugs worked out, I won't be one of them. I have an 07 in production now and expect to be one of the first in Texas to be driving a 07 MCS. I hope there are no issues but lets face it, someone has to be the pioneer.

 

I had another rather lenghty post concerning reliability.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=87388

In short, I don't expect the same magnitudes of start up problems as with first gen. They do have more experience with the Mini this time around than they had last time. I addition, the plant experience, employee training etc are and design heritage are all improved over the first gen.

I'm hoping this is so, as mine is built and on a boat on its way over!

 

Thanks for the link glangford. You make a good point between plant start up issues for a new model versus a redesigned model.

I've read the new engine is a joint venture between BMW & Peugeot/Citroen. Since Peugeot/Citroen cars are not sold in the US, how reliable are they? Is such a collaboration likely to be more or less reliable than the old BMW/Brazilian Chrysler joint venture engine?

How does the Peugeot/Citroen reputation for quality control and reliability compare to:

• Chrysler
• Honda/Subaru/Toyota?

In other words, has BMW picked a better partner for the new MINI?

Is the turbo-charged S likely to be any more reliable than the super-charged S?

 

I think the engine is all BMW design with Citreon partnering in manufacturing. Don't know much about them in terms of reliabiility. Was in France a year ago and they drive a bunch of them.

 

I do think as far as the engine is concerned BMW picked a better partner than the Chrysler engine built in Brazil. A $12,000 Toyota Yaris has variable valve technology, why can't a Mini!! It was time to bring the engine up to 21st century standards.

Don't know about super charger vs. turbo charger, I bought an 07 MC.

 

Congratulations on your purchase of an 07 MC! This is the direction in which I'm leaning.

However, I'd like to have some additional information about the reliability of the new model since:

• Per Road & Track's Long-Term Test: 2003 Mini Cooper S (50,129 total miles) http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....8&print_page=y a new engine for a 2003 MCS was $9,700.00!

• Per the ATK and Jasper websites:
  • http://www.atkengines.com/
  • http://www.jasperengines.com/

 

So the fuel pump issue that they had right off the bat doesn't have you worried?

 

 

I believe R56 has greatly improved in it's basic set-up for run-flat tire use, as is refinements for run-flats in general. Interior ergonomics have improved...most notably in better steering wheel adjustments. There is also more front leg-room. Cabin noise is way down and very smooth engine response seems to be universally acknowledged, along with nice fuel comsumption gains. Given MINI excellent warranty, I'd be going for an '07. In fact I am going for an '08.

 

While there may be some issues with new cars, that's what warrantys are for! If you look at the magnatude of defects on new cars, the are rather closely bunched and much better than even 5 years ago. In general, if you're going to look at quality of a marque, look at several places. For example, while the early cars had a REP for problems, the newer of the R50/R53 got a "reccommeded" from CR for the last one or two years....

Why be paranoid about Peugot! Here in the US they didn't work out too well,. but in europe they seem to last. And people shouldn't crap on the little tri-tec engine. It has more HP/liter than tons of cars! And with the iron block you can pump up the HP with no bottom end work. The stock shortblock has worked out well for some surprisingly large HP motors.

Each and every car model will have horror stories from something blowing up time after time, but these anticdotes, while seemingly important, are close to statistically insignificant when you consider that just under a million of these models have been built over the last 5 or so years....

Buy what you want, make sure that the dealer WRITES DOWN every issue you bring up (so that there is a record if you have to go to another dealer or they guy who said "don't worry, I'll remember" doesn't screw you by getting another job) to that there is a paper trail if things do happen. Sure there is a chance you'll get a lemon, but it is small, and all cars have the same risk, more or less, associated with the purchase...

Matt

 

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Agreed - warranties are a good thing. However, with so few dealers, the more reliable the car, the less time one has to spend returning the car to the dealer. Our most convenient dealer is about 60 miles away.

2006 was the 1st year CR recommended the MINI. FWIW, the following is CR's overall reliability assessment by year:

"Used Car Verdicts"
- 02: "much worse than average"
- 03: "much worse than average"
- 04: "average"
- 05: "worse than average"
- 06: "average"

Per Road & Track's Long-Term Test: 2003 Mini Cooper S (50,129 total miles) http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....print_pag e=y Their "AT a Glance" summary also rated the 03 as "poor" for reliability.

I asked about Peugeot/Citroen reliability because they are not currently sold in the US. The new MINI engine certainly has more advanced technology. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it will be reliable.

The 02 - 06 engine had a cast iron block. The 07 MINI engine has an aluminum block to reduce weight.

Thanks for your recommendation to insist that the service writer documents all service issues - definitely a good idea!

 

The fuel pump issue does not have me worried. BMW found a problem with a part (batch of parts from a supplier)and corrected the problem before anything left the factory. Perhaps an emphasis on QC helped find it? Seems like the system worked. Other manufacturers may have just shipped and let the dealer take care of it. (I also bought MC not MCS, which had the problem, but wouldn't worry about MCS either.)

Agree with Matt. In general reliabilities of all vehicles have markedly improved over the years.

 

Well so far I have not had any "niggles" after having my 07 MCS for a month. In fact, it feels better every day.

 

Glad to Hear R56. In another thread you told me, how much I'd love my MC. Well its built and on a ship to the US. Can't wait!!

 

If you are so worried.. Then don't order it? Doesnt seem so difficult..

I am all for convincing people that it won't be so bad, but when multiple people try, and still question like its the end of the world then maybe a new car purchase wouldn't be the best idea right now until a later model run.

Good luck on whatever decision you find, but don't sweat it!!!! The MINI will be fine :P

 

The reviews of the 07 are fairly unanimous in their praise of its performance and its refinement compared to the previous model - hence my sincere interest.

However, on the one hand, Toyota reliability (193k & 370k miles) has spoiled us. It's hard to give up the low cost of ownership, the infrequent need for service & the large dealer network - hence my interest in the reliability of the R56S.

On the other hand, I am bored to tears with the lack of performance on my long commute.

 

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I think you are worrying way too much about the engine relialbilties in this area of global design, engineering, parts and assembly. the only engine i have personally heard of failing was a friends 1985 5 series that died after the daughter ran it into a meltdown (after running out of coolant and ignoring the hot temp light on the dash that still worked). suspensions, window motors, a/c, etc usually fail and cost too much to maintain before the engine gives it up.

The real question for me is everday drivabilty, cost, and fuel economy for the turbo versus the supercharger. sounds like the turbo will have more power, available earlier, and with better MPG.

i don't recollect reading about any failed SC engines on this board (that were driven into deep puddles or modified), a few tranys, but not engines.

do a few archive searches...

 

As I wrote earlier, " I asked about Peugeot/Citroen reliability because they are not currently sold in the US." Also, I'm used to Toyota cars having Toyota engines for example. So when a company out-sources the most expensive part of the car to a company with whom I'm unfamiliar, I'm naturally going to be curious about their reputation for reliability.

It's good to read that the previous engine was reliable. So what has been the most common failure that causes owners to replace their MINIs rather than repair them?

 

If you are expecting Toyota/Honda reliability from an inexpensive European car, you're likely to be sorely dissappointed.

The Mini definately drives very nicely. I am very happy with mine, and have had extremely minimal trouble with it... But I have a Subaru in the garage next to it that I drive to work every day.

Have you checked out the Honda Fit? Might be a nice combination of reliability and fun.

 

Thanks for the reply satay-ayam.

Do you mean that if you drove your MINI to work every day that you'd expect significant issues with it or that it would be significantly less reliable than your Subaru?

I'm curious which MINI & Subaru you own (normally aspirated or forced induction)? So if you drive the Subaru to work every day, do you have much opportunity to enjoy your MINI?

Per CR:
06 MCS 0-60 = 7.1 sec, 60-0 MPH =122', Max Accident avoidance = 57.5 MPH
Fit Sport 0-60 = 9.9 sec, 60-0 MPH =134', Max Accident avoidance = 56 MPH
(5-spd, torsion-beam rear suspension, tires: P195/55R15 84H)
No: Stability control, 6-speed, LSD, HID, rear disc, CBC, or multi-way leather seats.
However, Cruise, MP3, & fogs are standard!

Any other suggestions?

 

I drove 32 miles each way to and from work for the first 3+ years of ownership with no issues at all. And I had one of the early builds! The only time I've been stranded by the car was the result of my own tinkering. One mod I did wore a wire on the throttle body harness. And a poorly placed hose clamp caused a rather painful overheating problem. The car has 78k+ miles on, and is driven hard.

I think with todays cars and build, that mostly it's the luck of the draw on a specific car, with most being very good for all modern manufacturers. So most will say that they've had no or non-critical issues, and a few will have had really bad experiences with major system failures or repeat problems. But if you look at most manufacturers, this is true for all to some degree or another.

Most cars are capable of very long lifetimes, it comes down to treatment and maintenance more than everything else. There are some issues (like the Toyota sludge in the oil galleys) that spring up and are systemic, but most cars can last a very, very long time. That said, the MCS is a very highly tuned motor, even the cooper puts out about the same HP/Liter as a Z06 Corvette, so don't expect the system to have the average longevity of a much less stressed design. For example, the service interval on the SC (or designed service life or whatever) is 100k miles. So if you want your Mini motor to go 300k, you can bet that you'll have to do a service on your SC, something that would never come up on Hondas or Toyotas (a few cars execpted).

So be happy with your purchase, and enjoy the experience, but as others have said, these cars beg to be driven a bit harder than the average ride, and will need more maintenance. I go through tires on this at 5x the rate on my MDX. Price of admission for the E ticket ride!

Matt