Yeah - that was post in progress that I didn't intend to send - thus the Focus with no numbers. It's why my other post agreed with you. I was researching and reporting back. Many of us are so focused on the MINI that we have no idea what a Scion XA weighs for example. And right now Edmunds is reporting it weighs 3300 instead of 2300, so we're not the only ones.

Personally, I'm irked when I read automotive magazines and reviews that don't highlight a car's weight, to me a more important spec than hp. The weight influences so many aspects:
acceleration
mileage
ability to redirect it's inertia (turn)
feeling of speed
destruction liability towards others
even wearing out roads
and finally, a heavier car requires that brakes, wheels, tires, suspension etc are bigger/stronger which means they're heavier, so we see that fat cars are inherently fatter. That sounds like circular logic, but play with 1100 cc, 1800 lb. cars and you'll see what I mean. Everything can be built with smaller specs.

Matt, I guess I'm not seeing the MINI's deficit in traction. I also guess I will when I take delivery and the LSD is still not letting me put all the power down. I guess you'd prefer RWD over FWD (so would I), so why not have MINI do that? I'm guessing only Hubie & Fireball Tim will notice the AWD system. Or maybe someone in the P-WRC or someone who lives above the snowline. I guess I just consider AWD to neither an elegant solution to a problem, nor an effective fun feature for an enthusiast's car.

 

I mean, you live in San Diego! Last I saw there, the only need for 4 wheel drive was to get the keg onto the beach (I went to UCSD....) Why don't you talk to the people who live in Alberta. Or Nebraska for that matter (do they even have a Mini dealer?).

And you still missing my point massively. Who cares what I want it a car. It's a new market segment (For Mini) that they are going after. Right now, all those that want a small 4 wheel driver can't get anything from Mini. After the new clubman, they will and some will buy.

What's so wrong with the product line expanding, even if it's a direction that you don't want to buy?

Matt

 

I don't think AWD is a bad thing - I just think people who are buying the car for performance are going to be dissapointed.

The fact is that many Mini owners could care less about power to weight or off the line acceleration.

I'm still trying to figure out from these posts who is so vehemently opposed to the AWD system. I'll go re-read the thread........

Again, if I were to buy and R56 it would be for different reasons than my 55 year old (female) next door neighbor. Just because AWD is not a desireable option for me does not mean it wouldn't be for her.

Biatch fest? C'mon, people have opinions and are discussing them. Everyone has their ideal of what the marque should be - what's wrong with that?

People are debating the unknown - just as they did and still are doing with the R56 platform. There is a perceived "heritage" and "purity" to the brand that people think they are preserving. Unfortunately, alot of the percieved heritage is wrong - the S does not stand for supercharged and the old classic Minis may have been light but they had anemic amounts of hp.

Debates like this are healthy and are a by-product of people who are passionate about their cars voicing their conerns about the future of their chosen brand - what's so wrong about that?

 

07 MCS - lighter, faster FWD - (:

 

AWD is awesome. what? more traction...when that become a bad thing. if they do come out with it in 08 i will own one....period.

 

drive a rs4 or a sti then come talk to me.

 

It's not a cut and dried argument.........

Some would argue that the MCS already has enough traction - I have run into very few drivers that can outdrive the MCS in stock form.

Having tracked both Minis and AWD cars I can tell you firsthand that there is no clear AWD advantage. In some situations, AWD is a disadvantage as while it rewards good driving habits, it can really punish you for bad ones.

The AWD system will add weight and sap power to the wheels. So while it may add traction in some situations, it will rob the car of power. Fuel economy will also suffer, the initial cost of admission will be higher and the drivetrain will be more expensive to maintain.

 

Driven an STi and own an EVO - a FWD Mini can easily hang with either in the twisties without breaking a sweat. I would even go as far to say that the R53 MCS is an easier car to drive fast in the esses compared to the STi.

Those are also extremely advanced AWD systems. At this point I do not see the same technology making it into the Mini. Audi, Subaru and Mitsubishi have honed their systems on the WRC circuit and that technology has made it into their production cars.

 

no its never a cut and dry argument..i agree. i also live in new york and snow board constantly. doing 85 mph in the snow is a breeze in an sti or an a4..trust me. thats where i am coming from. i have owned subarus, audis etc and would rather have an awd than a fwd any day. we all know why i bought a mini...its still the most fun to drive but, if i can have a fully modded AWD mini...ill take it over the fwd in a sec. the thing that would sway me from the awd mini is a RWD mini...man...that would be the best.

 

If & when MINI/BMW comes out with a AWD MINI I'll sign up. For me AWD's advantages for outweigh any disadvantages.

 

Mee too, so long as it has mucho power

 

We can only hope..

 

Although I doubt will see an AWD MINI except on the Traveller and the Colorado (If BMW goes ahead with the Colorado concept), for what its worth, Getrag did an AWD Mini on the old car as an experiment--not sure where I read about it, might have been Motoring File--and it was significantly quicker than the standard MCS on the course they ran it on, even with the extra weight, and even with the jury rigging they had to do to get it to work/fit on the previous generation Mini. My suspicion is with the extra room, the newer generation could handle the AWD even better, and the added weight will be offset by the traction gained.


Although I doubt will see it on the other models of the Mini, I'd get a JCW AWD Mini in a hearbeat. Its the only thing I'd ever consider trading my 2006 JCW in for. Maybe it'll be the end of the R56's run's answer to the previous generation GP.

 

I just re-read the report and the getrag presentation on the Twinster AWD system.

Nowhere does it say anything about it being quicker. In fact in all major cars lines that offer AWD (and the engines being the same) the rear or front wheel drive counterparts are always quicker, than their AWD brethren.

 

Does awd improve braking in the snow?

I'll guess I'l wait for the AWD Elise..

Paul

 

Someone is asking for a Darwin Award.. Let's just hope they don't take anyone out with themselves.

 

Well I like to drive 200 mph in the rain. So don't tell me that MINI shouldn't copy Bugatti's lead with AWD and 1000 hp. It does that and I hear it's a breeze.

But seriously, I'm not buying the argument that MINI is scrambling for sales or that it's sink or swim. BMW is not trying to grow the brand in order to sell it off. It's selling very well. In the US, top residual value is a sign that MINI's not meeting their current demand, or that their limited number of dealerships or dealer markups are an annoyance to the uninitiated. But either way their product is liked. And they've increased the capacity of their current production facility not on a gamble on their new products, but because they've steadily built a great base and increase production of what they already sell is a sure bet.
The opinion I'm getting here is that because it's cool, or because someone likes it, it should be built. Same could be said about the ever growing fleet of 7 passenger SUV's but I disagree that car companies should continue to build them.
In reference to the quote above, do me a favor and think about what happens to a car at 85 mph when it loses traction on snow, 'cause 6 or 8 wheel drive won't keep you from losing it at that speed in a car on snow. I know it's just one person's rather foolish statement, but it's reflective of the false reasurance that AWD and 4WD has created among a lot of people.

 

Correct. Don't expect an AWD enthusiast oriented MINI coupe within the next 6-7 years (i.e. during this generation). Sadly it's just not in the cards as BMW doesn't believe it's part of the current MINI brand.

 

methinks a pickup built on the Clubman chassis might do well here tho. there are no small pickups anymore.

 

Mini is already very heavy piggy car.
If mini would offer AWD, mini will be heavier and heavier.
Mini engine is quite awful for pursue sports driving.
It is far behind STI, EVO and VTEC engine.
I feel that MINI AWD is for daily purpose such as snow country and rainy weather usage.
Does BMW have good AWD technology?
I prefer to drive FR mini for drifting.