Edge -- that makes way too much sense.

Are you on drugs or something?

 

I haven't become very involved in the test drive threads but some very good points have been made in this one, good observations

I haven't test driven an R56 myself and I don't feel particularly in a rush to, I'm not in the market, but some of the balanced feedback and opinions are interesting to hear. Perhaps some of the inherant changes to the feel of the car stem from the fact that this model was created from the beginning as a platform vs the R53 which was initially conceived of just for the hatch variants (Cooper and MCS)? Once again points towards the notion that first iteration was an experiment angled towards a niche market that was more successful then possibly anticipated vs the new model being designed to cover more versions and the wider audience from the ground up.

 

Just a couple thoughts.

RE: R53 being more enthusiast targeted
Maybe it was, but I think that's a big maybe. It has had quite a bit of enthusiast appeal, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was really targeted at enthusiasts.

RE: the vast majority of R56 buyers (those that will never visit NAM) wanting a fun, cute car that is reliable and feels solid. The exact same thing could be said about the R50 and R53. The majority of buyers are not enthusiasts that will visit NAM or MINI2. In the U.S. MINI sold roughly 178,000 R50/R53's. NAM has 34,000 members. We're a fraction of the overall MINI buying public. Admittedly for an enthusiast site NAM does skew higher than quite a few other enthusiasts communities, but even so.

In short, I think the R50/R53 being a hardcore enthusiast car has been pretty oversold since the R56 came out. No offense to anyone that is an R50/R53 enthusiast (I've owned both myself and been in the MINI community since 2001), but looking at the broader picture the number of R50/R53 "enthusiasts" is still only a slice of the pie.

 

I do think the intent, when the Mini was designed, was to attract auto and auto heritage enthusiasts. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the impression I recall getting from the 2001 BMWNA presentation at the BMWCCA dinner during the Historics. Subsequently, the marketing covered a lot of areas and expanded and changed over time to cover all the bases they could (after all it is about selling cars), but I believe that at the heart of the cars creation and the experiment to see about selling such a small niche car, was to appeal to, tap into, and grow the enthusiast community and expand on the enthusiastic and viral self promoting nature of that to get established.

It was a success and now its got a foothold and they need a platform they can use in various versions and hopefully appeal to a broader audience to sell even more cars and make more profit on each car (if the rumours are correct that the R53 was too expensive and didn't make the margin they'd like), sort of a different objective. Doesn't mean it will be worse, but I think the foundation for design and design choices are simply coming from a different place, or at least being dictated from more perspectives for more objectives.

Edit: sorry for all the edit tweaks, I fix a word and it messes something else up :P

 

C4, It sounds like you're saying that the feminine aspects of the car have been designed away in favor of a more masculine look, at least for the MCS. For instance:

. The bonnet is flatter and not as curvy as before.

. The front is exarcebated by the nearly vertical black grille.

. Bigger side mirrors

. Creating this tall body vs short roof pillars effect

. The hump in the hatchback

. Big ugly black piece of plastic running under the front chin of the car

. The fit and shutlines of the bonnet are horrendous

. the wheel arches huge and the front end more bulbous than ever before

. You can almost see a huge overhang of the front end with the car lowered.

. Huge wheel arches and higher beltline

Actually your description of the new MCS reminds me of my ex-wife's description of me after many years of marriage.

 

BINGO !

Keep in mind that it was complaints from the US market that killed the "burble" on the R56. Do you think members of NAM did that? Do you think enthusiasts did that? Heck no! It was the average joe that bought a MINI because it was so incredibly cute and then found the noise annoying.

dean.

 

dean.

 

Its funny how the R56 zealots come out in droves to defend the eye sore design details in their beloved cars. Whatever my friends, I honestly don't care, its not my money after all.

 

I never imagined I'd see the day when motorers on NAM would have so much infighting....

It's still a MINI.

 

This is the point Chows was making.

I agree with eVal's take on the R53 being introduced as a niche vehicle and then becoming more successful then they imagined.

I understand that BMW is in the business to make money and that the vast majority of buyers probably had no use for the go kart handling, exhaust burble and stiff suspension.

I forget which magazine that compared the Civic Si the Mk V GTI and the JCW MCS. what I remember is the wrap up.

While the Mini came in third it was noted by the testers as the track choice of the three and the comparo was open about the fact that it came in third because it was not the complete car that the other two were - in other words it was not the best hauler or commuter. Make no mistake, however, that it was deemed the enthusiasts choice.

With the R56 BMW has made a conscious decision to move towards the GTI and create a car that is more comfortable, and less idiosyncratic.

When I say that BMW forgot what the car was about (in reference to the R56) I guess I'm trying to express that the R56 is not the clear niche car (in the words of Eval) or the hands down choice at the track that the R53 was.

I drove the car twice and I had a positive, open mind going into it. In my narrow world, where my personal car is used for the track and weekend jaunts, the R56 disappointed me. This is not to say that someone with different needs and expectations won't find the car a perfect match. My opinion is that they stripped the car of the visual, aural and tactile uniqueness of the R53.

Anyway, a friend of my wife just got one of the first R56 MCS in our area. My wife disliked my 03 saying it was too loud, the ride was punishing, etc, etc. She's all aglow about the new one - it looks better, it's more quiet, the interior is more plush and it rides soooooooo much nicer. So BMW lost me but apparently won over my better half - go figure.

 

Who's infighting?

Have you visited "Performance Mods - Drivetrain" lately?

 

R56 zealots? If I read right, this forum is called, "Coupe Talk (2007+)".

Imagine yourself seeing the MCS, specifically the R56 S for the first time and loving the looks of it. Imagine yourself driving one for the first time and having the thrill of your life. One thing those of us who are new to the car could care less about is how an R50/R53 owner views the R56. We certainly don't feel any need whatsoever to defend the looks of a car we've fallen in love with. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=92730

 

Fair enough. Enjoy your R56

 

That about sums it up for a lot of us R53 owners... BMW has taken the R56 is a different direction. For those of us that remember, the same thing happened with the BMW 2002... another classic forever lost.

 

I haven't been here that long and was wondering if the in-fighting was new or just the way things are around here. I'm looking forward to it going away soon ...lets just talk about how cool MINIs are ...all of 'em !

dean.

 

Where is this infighting you guys keep referring to?

 

If your talking about the 2002 being replaced by the 3-series, you're over dramatizing a tad. Totally different bloodlines. The 3's came from the 4-door 1800's. The cars that replaced the 2002 were truly the 1-series, and they didn't come out for years to come. Compact, powerful and purpose-built for pure fun.

A more accurate analogy would be the twin carb 2002ti being replaced by the 2002 Turbo in 1973. A new engine... some minor body kit & chrome changes... but overall the same soulful, purpose driven (again: fun) car despite what many NA owners said.

I loved the 2002 series. Mmmhmmmmm...

Then again... the car that seems MOST like the 2002 in current production IS THE MINI!!! Hmmm... hadn't really thought about that before honestly. I want a MINI as it seems to me to be the contemporary 2002. Interesting self revelation. Thanks slag... you got me thinking.

 

I'm with you reelsmith, as excited as I am about my new Mini, and as helpful as I have found NAM, the infighting and constant R56 bashing is starting to turn me off. It's odd to me that same folks on here actually have the time to continually post negative or derogotory comments. I appreciate the fact that some don't like the R56 and I appreciate a good arguement as well, friendly debate never hurt anyone, but geez...enough already. Granted, I am a newbie to this forum and to Mini but it makes me start to wonder if the Mini clubs are going to be the same way and shun the R56 "outsiders".

I've been riding BMW motorcycles for a number of years and belong to a club as well. The bikes span a wide range of years, all BMW, but many varieties represented...and you know what? No one cares because the one thing that brings us together is our love to own and ride BMW motorcycles. Initially I would have thought the same goes for Mini owners but now I am not so sure. I suppose time will tell.
-Dave

 

IMO -- This is SOOOOOOO boring.
It's a shame. I heard so much about how close and cool the MINI community was. Well, I guess that was true as long as all the cars came off the assembly line essentially looking and driving the same.

It's sad. This forum has become pretty disappointing to come to.
You know -- I don't go into the R53 section on this forum, why because my interest is in the R56.
I don't need to justify it or defend the new design -- it's done!
I like the R53 too. If I was purchasing a MINI earlier last year I would have bought one and would have been very happy I'm sure. Would that have allowed me to come to NAM without having to justify my purchase and my wish to communicate with like minded car owners?
Is it unreasonable to expect to come to a SECTION of this forum dedicated to the car I purchased and communicate with like minded owners?
Maybe it is.
That is a shame.
I heard the R53 section is full of people who like that car --- Imagine that.

 

Oh, c'mon... it's not that bad. People are just willing to be, well... more opinionated when posting in a forum setting. In person, most of us are actually pretty nice people. It's also very easy to read too much into a typed post. Often the intended humor or sarcasim is lost.

Do check out your local MINI clubs. You'll meet a ton of new people and have some great motoring experiences.

But then again, dstock... I'm a Triumph rider, so .

 

While I may not say it as strongly, I feel the same way. I marginally prefer the R56, maybe because it was the model out when I could afford a MINI, but I wouldn't go to the 1st gen forums to talk about my preferences. I come to the 2nd gen forums for information and helpful suggestions, not to discuss the pros and cons of one generation or another. Thanks for letting me vent.
Just my opinion for what it's worth.

 

Let me get this straight, I have no right to post my impressions of the R56?

Can you please direct the rest of us who may want to discuss the redesign where we should post?

Or do good reviews stay in this forum and bad reviews stay in the R53 forum?

Put your collective beans together and figure it out. I'm sorry that any criticisms I had of the R56 have spoiled your experience on NAM.

Please forward me a PM containing all the things you like so that I can make sure not to accidentally hurt anyone elses feelings around here.

 

LMAO msh441! I'm actually a big fan of Triumphs.

 

Skip,

Now who's taking things a bit far?? No one is saying you have no right to post so please spare us the drama. I, and some of the others here, were sharing our impressions of the forum. Apparently I am not alone in finding the same people are bashing the R56 in many threads in this forum, not just this thread. Honestly whether you like the R56 or not isn't going to make a bit of difference to me, it's just odd you find it so distasteful why you would waste the time saying it over and over and over again.
Also, I doubt anyone's feelings here are "hurt" by your comments but if they are then all of NAM is the worse off for it. Nice work.

 

You areDstock - no ones bashing the car.

Re-read the thread. Please.

You've created the drama - you don't like the forum because some people have some criticisms of the car you chose to buy.

You call that bashing? Please Dstock - reread my comments.

Your comments indicate otherwise.

No one said anything about distasteful. Re-read my comments - you apparently have missed the points some of us were trying to make.

This thread was doing fine and we were having a relatively free exchange of ideas until a group of you started bitching about the "bashing". NAM is now the worse for it.

Let's try this - go back to my first post where I stated that the R56 is a fine car. Go read Edge's post welcoming the R56 owners to the fold. No one is excluding anyone. No one is bashing the R56. I have tried my best to couch my expectations of the R56 based on my narrow needs. I have stated that BMW has moved to make the car more mainstream.

I'll be upfront, I don't like the styling changes.

That's my personal view - it's not a bash and it's not an exclusion of any R56 owners from this community. If you can't see that, we have nothing further to discuss.

For reference - from my earlier posts:
"Don't get me wrong, the R56 is a fine car, and will compete well with the GTIs of the world. Tons of people will buy them and BMW will make alot of money. It was not, however, what I expected."

"In my narrow world, where my personal car is used for the track and weekend jaunts, the R56 disappointed me. This is not to say that someone with different needs and expectations won't find the car a perfect match."