Actually I went back a re-read some of the other threads and can see why there was some sensitivity to further criticism. Again, in this thread, we are trying our best to keep it civil.

So sack up and enjoy your new car.

 

Traitor

 

I agree!! I'm still waiting for a manual myself, but drivers of automatics should be pleased. Again, the "sport mode" makes a big difference, imo!!

 

Well when compared to the Cooper CVT, the new Cooper auto is a pretty good drive. Still, I am not crazy on the details we have discussed ad naseum

 

Too bad though, the car is still rated at 118HP, when for years, rumors floated around the R56 Cooper to be 140HP stock. The torque downlow really helps.

 

Yes it does. I suppose I'm lucky to have been enamored with R56 styling changes early on...it's made the whole thing much less traumatic.

 

I just think the R56 design is going to work out much better in the squared off Clubman and possibly the Convertible.

To me the hatch has too many design issues. Frank Stephenson spoiled us with the MK1 car.

 

LOL Will do!

 

I didn't really think Skiploder and C4 were that immflamatory. I really appreciated Skip's reasons for liking the R50/53, the nostalgia it brought in him. We both experienced rides in our Dad's TRs as kids. And C4 thank you for your post thanking me and wishing me enjoyment with my R56!!. The first page of this thread started off as a relatively nice exhange of ideas and experiences, then degraded from there. I wouldn't lay total blame on the R50/53 crowd, some of us in the R56 fold are also a little too defensive.

 

I disagree about the thread degrading, there's a lot of valuable input in it. The main degredation I have seen is the result of one particular member who spammed many R56 threads (and eventually his signature) with the same image... while funny at first, eventually it becomes anagonistic. That member has been disciplined for it. Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch!

I appreciate you noting the over-defensiveness of some R56 fans, because that certainly doesn't help either. We all need to remember that this is a discussion forum, which means that different opinions can (and will) be expressed. Everyone is free to express theirs, just as long as they remain respectul and within the other NAM Site Guidelines too.

 

both Models are AWESOME. i agree that the R53 made the driver feel like he ore she was an important piece in geting the car from point ato point B, it gave you that connection to the road, you could feel every bump and wave in the road. The new R56 on the other hand does take a little from that, the ride is much smoother, shifts are much smoother, but you dont feel as glued to the road as in the R53, there are ups and downs to both, as an everyday driver i'd take the R56 but to the track id take the R53 although in the end neither car is better or worse in either setting.

 

I felt the same. The trans feels much better than my 05 MCSa. That said my next MINI, will be just that -- an MCS

 

I have heard good things about the MCa. And this further emphasizes the point that MINIs will appeal to all types. Some want the auto for traffic in a daily driver. I dont think its an abomination. If i could figeure out how to quote two people at the same time I would because Skiploder calling C4 a traitor is something that happens alot here on NAM. Most of the time it is a joke, sarcastic, but if taken the wrong way it causes alot of problems as we have seen. If you think something may be offensive, take a second to also see how it could be humerous. That being said, I have heard the clutch in the R56 is lighter. Any fact in this? thanks again guys
Bryan

 

A good review Edge, very similar to Skip and discussing exactly the issues Skip and I were talking about

Yup. Exactly what I said. "Enthusiasts" tend to forget they are not the masses nor are they were the money may be. Follow the money.

Edge ... and for everyone else too who seem to love defending one generation over the other.

I find this particularly sad

Dave has locked several threads that got out of hand because of the defensiveness or comments by people out of line.

I NEVER thought I would see the day the "enthusiasts" here became so fragmented all within the MINI culture. Do not expect it to get better. As the Gen 2 cars become entrenched and eventually more on the road, the divide will get MUCH wider.

And, THAT is very bad for the MINI culture. I am so surprised there is no much "hate" being spewed by the first gen owners and some of the posts are a sense of hatred for the new car for whatever reason. One of the best things of the MINI culture was the friendliness and eager help one owner would give another.

In another thread I started to write it off as ... "People fear change" or even possibly jeolousy in that not everyone can just go buy a new car when they feel like it but I'm beginning to think its FAR deeper than that.

If the trend continue, and on other MINI forums as well, that does not bode well for the MINI culture in the future as it will split between definitive divisions and what was once a great MINI culture will fragment.

I'm not saying that WILL happen but the trends don't look good on NAM. This "phenomana" (sp) is not something new. It can be found it other marques as well and over a long time, the hatred turns vile as people will start with ...

Well, you don't drive a REAL MINI. REAL MINIs are supercharged

I hope I'm wrong because when that happens, the MINI culture will have lost something it can never get back

 

FWIW, I was actually 1.5 seconds FASTER in the MCa than MC at the R56 press launch autocross (44.2 vs. 42.7 seconds). I chalk that up to the tires though. The MCa had the 16" wheels/wider runflats (and corresponding stiffer sidewalls) where the MC 6-speed had the narrower wheels/standard tires that were not properly inflated for autocross (i.e. they rolled over a bit).

I actually put down the fastest time of the day in the MCa. Even with the tires taken into account it was very impressive. I would have loved to have seen a MC with the 16" wheels/tires to see what the difference would have been then.

 

Clutch is lighter than R53 I drove for sure. Engagement point is not as apparent either in my opinion. Is very smooth shifting from my perspective, a little less notchy than before.

 

Bryan:

C4 is a traitor and he knows it. I don't toss that accusation out lightly.

Re the R56 - the clutch is lighter and the shifter effort is better..........and automatics are for traitors.

Traitor.

 

Do you need a hug?

Seriously Art, you know for a fact that I don't even own a Mini anymore. On top of that, just recently I was sticking the knife in the GP owners (particularly my good friend Camelpilot) that the R56 would kill their resale values - especially when the R56 based JCW debuts.

I'm starting to sound like a dementia patient here but where on this thread is the "hate"? C4 doesn't like the way it looks, Edge welcomes everybody with open arms and a slap on the *** and eVal has been very even handed.

Reading through the R56 threads today, I saw why some people are defensive about the car. But the intent of this thread and the tone of this thread is fairly non-offensive. I would like to leave all the controversy elsewhere.

We've talked about the pre-judging of the R56 that has gone on since the first details were released. Some people will/are threatened by the new model as it has dated their cars - but I'm not one of them - I don't own a Mini. C4 is the defender of all things Mini - if Mini started building their cars in North Korean concentration camps he'd find a way to defend it.

Your bad experiences with those neanderthals at the Porsche Forums have exposed you to the dark side of the human condition. Have faith in the Mini flock - with the exception of a few bad apples, we all usually find a way to kiss and make up in the end.

By the way, I just noticed that Chows4Us is eerily close to Coopers4Us, which was C4 nee Frank's old tag line.......

Are you two related?

 

How are you call the shifter in my beloved R53 notchy!

Chows is finally right about something - this senseless hate will divide us all.

 

Whoa, hold on Art. There's absolutely nothing wrong with constructive criticism from both 1st Gen and 2nd Gen owners (or soon-to-be owners). Every car has its good points and its bad points, and it's healthy to recognize them - it can be lively discussion at times, but as long as the posts are respectful, there's nothing at ALL wrong about it. There is no reason to be "sad" about it. That's crazy.

Besides, I seem to recall a certain member who was constantly poking fun and deriding the GP not too long ago... to the point they had to be asked to back off by the moderators, as the posts were too divisive. <cough>As they should be - and warnings or infractions should be issued to people who break the guidelines. That doesn't mean that comparative analysis is a bad thing.I think you're worrying too much. That won't happen. The R56 is here to stay. There will be a LOT of them on the roads in the coming years, and even their biggest detractors will come to appreciate some of their better qualities. I have faith that it will not grow to any greater proportion than some poking fun. Sibling rivalry, if you will.Again, another case of letting a few "bad apples" spoil the bunch. The problem is nowhere near as widespread as you seem to suggest. And most of us that have some criticisms of the R56 changes are quite reasonable about it - no "spewing", just honest analysis... in addition to recognizing the good changes in the R56 (of which there are many).That whole "can't afford it" point is a tired, old and rather pathetic argument. I've heard it time and time again in the whole SUV debate (no, not necessarily from you). It's a last resort argument that holds very little merit. The cost of the R56 is not an issue here in any of these discussions, nor should it be in the car vs. SUV debate.Again, I think you're worrying too much.I think you're wrong, Art.

Just as the R53 owners need to realize that the R56 is here to stay, and no amount of griping or complaining will ever bring the R53 back into production... the new R56 owners in the community also need to realize that comparisons are inevitable, and we love our cars, so passions will be high. Don't be defensive! Be happy! You'll love your new MINI!

The R56 is a good car. It's different too. There are good things and bad things in the changes, and the opinions of what changes are good and what changes are bad will vary from one person to another.

The community will pull through this. Easily. Right now it's just the "shock factor" (not to mention "new car excitement" factor for soon-to-be owners)that is causing the heightened emotions.

 

No... I think you might be the one missing the point... and also making the assumption that my reply was solely directed at you/your post 'cause I quoted some of it. It was meant to make more of a hollistic/general idea, and that is this:

BMW has allways been about selling cars. Whatever generation, whatever model. Even the MINI. Period. Thats what car companies do. Sell cars=make money. That's why they offer so many variations and options to the customer. To sell to everyone. That's what they will continue to do. Sell cars to everyone.

Tons of people fell in love with the new MINI for a million different reasons and not everyone wanted, or believed the car had an "edgy charactor" out of the box. Some really just like it 'cause it's so darn cute! The same will be true of the R56. Many owners. Many ideas. That's the cool thing about this car (or so I, and apparently other new owners want to believe).

Time will tell, but I think the suggestion that the MINI lost it's edge with the R56 is inaccurate and in a year we will see discussions like this were all much ado about nothing.

I'm trying, but I can't seem to be any clearer then that.



YES, damn it!!!

 

Yep, wildly inaccurate. The MINI still has me, even with the R56.

 

OK, I have been called traitor and other names...Hey I am cool with that. I have been called worse things before....

I give credit where credit is due and that is I liked the way the R56 Cooper auto drove vs our '02 MC CVT. It was a nice drive for its intended purpose: Urban street warrior.

Skiploder and I go back a long ways and we are well aware of our points of agreement and disagreement. We can live with that. Fair enough.

There are many aspects of the new car that I don't find appealing. I believe BMW could have done a better job in many areas of the design. In other aspects, they did a fairly decent job. The R56 will stay with us until 2012. In 2013 the third gen MINI will be introduced. what would it be codenamed? the R63? Who knows. May be that car will be a throw back to the R53 which by then will be a decade old.

Internet message boards are for the most part rough places. I still think the style of moderation here at NAM is on the heavy handed side, but I don't set the rules here. i am just a poster that has spent almost 5 years here since the days of MCO.

I think the time has come from me to take a "sabatical" from NAM. These days I find myself perusing MINI2.com more and more.

 

Now who needs a hug!

 

Don't you freaking bail on me man.

Chows and I will follow you to Mini2 so why bother?