R56 Shifting with a flat torque curve?
#51
Another version of thrust curve that I find more intuitive would be Thrust (lbs force) on the Y-axis, and Vehicle Speed (mph) on the X-axis.
Charlie's curve is close, but would only need some minor mathimatics to convert wheel torque to Thrust (ie, tire radius), and engine rpm to Vehicle Speed (ie, gear ratios).
Any volunteers?
Charlie's curve is close, but would only need some minor mathimatics to convert wheel torque to Thrust (ie, tire radius), and engine rpm to Vehicle Speed (ie, gear ratios).
Any volunteers?
so axle torque = thrust
a couple of weeks ago i was reading a thread on mpg, and got curious...
i watch mpg carefully, as an indicator of overall drive train health, so i knew i was getting a consistant 26.5-27.0 mpg mixed back roads and highways
at the time my driving habits were usually about a 75-80mpg highway cruise (> 3k rpm) and changing up around 3,500-4,000 rpm. not aggressive really, but not that gentle either...
so i tried featherfooting it! i change the highway cruise speed to no more than 75 ( < 3k ) and started changing up at 2,500 rpm where i knew i did not need acceleration. my back road cruise at 40-45 mph became a 5th gear cruise, and i started driving at 2,000 rpm.
bang -- 32.0 to 33.1 mpg - consistantly
that was such a jump that i've kept the new habits!
when i now go out and run a piece of twisties hard, with the use of the full powerband, i feel almost guilty at the fuel consumed. overall i've gone from almost two tanks per week to about one and a little.
and honestly i'm enjoying the handling as much as ever - i didn't slow down on the back roads, i just run them one gear higher...
Last edited by cmt52663; 04-21-2008 at 07:16 PM.
#52
Reference Article
This is true, for your constant rate of motion. What about when you accelerate from a red-light / stop sign? Or are running a 1/4 mile track... ? In those cases you are accelerating, not in a constant state. The additional Torque supplied, and thus HP @ a particular RPM, results in acceleration above a constant rate of motion.
The formula is:
HP = (Torque * RPM) / 5252
Greatly simplifying, Torque is just the instantaneous rotational force, and what we care about in this context is how much force to the tire's contact patch regardless of rotational speed... HP is force in motion over time, i.e. the application of force to the tire's contact patch to produce the rate of change of the rotational speed; as RPM goes up, so does therate of the work the engine performs...
The formula is:
HP = (Torque * RPM) / 5252
Greatly simplifying, Torque is just the instantaneous rotational force, and what we care about in this context is how much force to the tire's contact patch regardless of rotational speed... HP is force in motion over time, i.e. the application of force to the tire's contact patch to produce the rate of change of the rotational speed; as RPM goes up, so does therate of the work the engine performs...
#53
So, about 98% of stock O.D.
You've changed three parameters, making it hard to tell whether your increased mpg is from reduced speed, reduced rpm, or a change in driving style. With the boxy shape of the MINI, reducing speed speed from 80 to 75 will give you improved mpg. Changing how much you put your foot in it can also affect mpg.
Try maintaining the same speeds and acceleration rates, and only change the typical rpm you are running. See how that affects mpg.
i watch mpg carefully, as an indicator of overall drive train health, so i knew i was getting a consistant 26.5-27.0 mpg mixed back roads and highways
at the time my driving habits were usually about a 75-80mpg highway cruise (> 3k rpm) and changing up around 3,500-4,000 rpm. not aggressive really, but not that gentle either...
so i tried featherfooting it! i change the highway cruise speed to no more than 75 ( < 3k ) and started changing up at 2,500 rpm where i knew i did not need acceleration. my back road cruise at 40-45 mph became a 5th gear cruise, and i started driving at 2,000 rpm.
bang -- 32.0 to 33.1 mpg - consistantly
at the time my driving habits were usually about a 75-80mpg highway cruise (> 3k rpm) and changing up around 3,500-4,000 rpm. not aggressive really, but not that gentle either...
so i tried featherfooting it! i change the highway cruise speed to no more than 75 ( < 3k ) and started changing up at 2,500 rpm where i knew i did not need acceleration. my back road cruise at 40-45 mph became a 5th gear cruise, and i started driving at 2,000 rpm.
bang -- 32.0 to 33.1 mpg - consistantly
that was such a jump that i've kept the new habits!
when i now go out and run a piece of twisties hard, with the use of the full powerband, i feel almost guilty at the fuel consumed. overall i've gone from almost two tanks per week to about one and a little.
and honestly i'm enjoying the handling as much as ever - i didn't slow down on the back roads, i just run them one gear higher...
when i now go out and run a piece of twisties hard, with the use of the full powerband, i feel almost guilty at the fuel consumed. overall i've gone from almost two tanks per week to about one and a little.
and honestly i'm enjoying the handling as much as ever - i didn't slow down on the back roads, i just run them one gear higher...
#54
A good short paper on this subject appears here ... helps make the concepts laid out in this thread a bit more understandable.
It's also behind my confusion as to why the R56 S has such a relatively 'low' redline by todays standards. Being able to deliver the torque for just 500 let alone 1000 more RPM would do worlds of good for the performance of the R56S. I'd figure the moment of inertia of a 1.6L and air-flow needs would easily lend itself to a 7K or bit higher redline. (Aren't the Audi and BMW direct injection engines higher redline engines?)
#55
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