There are some people out there that would like a smaller front bar on their Mini. The MCS and all SS+ Minis come with a 24mm front bar. There are two other front bars available from BMW, the 22.5mm #31 35 6 757 072 and a 16mm bar #31 35 6 757 071.

You will need new bushings to go with these, #31 35 6 757 146 for the 22.5mm and #31 35 6 757 065 for the 16mm.

At least one of the aftermarket poly bushing makers has a bushing for the 22.5mm.

_________________
2001 & 2002 SCCA, STS, Pro Solo National Champion,

2003 STX, Solo 2 Nationals, Me 8th, codriver 2nd

 

Richard, thanks for the info. You continue to amaze me with your ability to find parts that I have given up on.
Chris

 

For G-Stock, I cannot change the rear sway bar to anything beefier, as much as I would like to. Would going to a smaller front bar have a similar desired beneficial effect on understeer/oversteer?

 

yes, but... It softens the front to help with wheel spin exiting tight corners, but it also slows transitional response. Everything is a trade-off. I've had good luck with the 22.5mm bar on my cooper.

 

Has anyone tried going to that coat-hanger sized 16 mm bar? Would it make it feel super-soft?

 

I just found out today that there was a 16mm bar... I think it would be too soft. But someone is bound to try it. Just not me. :smile:

 

I'll give it a try. I can't get any slower.

 

Do those part numbers include the mounting hardware?

 

>>Do those part numbers include the mounting hardware?

Guess I should have listed the needed bushings in the first post so I'm doing it now.

 

So let's just say that I'm not concerned about SCCA classes, and I want to make a super-run track car. What would the effects be of beefing up the rear bar and softening up the front bar? Would it create fairly significant oversteer? My biggest problem on the track is spinning the inside tire on hard turns. If I could correct that one feature (without dropping a couple grand on a LSD), I would be one happy camper.



Essential Questions:

Would a softer front bar, perhaps coupled with a stiffer rear be the poor man's LSD?

Would anyone care to hypothesize on the effects of going 16 mm on the front bar?

Would anyone care to discuss handling differences (as they relate to front bar) relative to speed (i.e. track speed vs. autocross speed)?


Thanks for your advice...I'm just trying to establish long-term goals here.

 

I think a supersoft front bar and a large rear bar would be the ticket to large amounts of oversteer, not really a LSD since no power is being re-directed. A lighter wheel still will receive more torque.
I think with the thin front bar, I will have to test and tune the shock dampening to prevent the above mentioned oversteer. Softer in the rear?
I have not tracked a car, but I have never seen a turn on a track that is as slow and tight as a pivot cone in auto-x. The setup I have now on my Cooper is very neutral to slight oversteer, probaly better for track than auto-x.
I am now a chassis engineer, I just play one on NAM.

 

Being that you can't increase the size of the rear bar to stay in G-stock, I would'nt think you could reduce the front. I'm not implying you can't, nor that anyone other tann Yucca patrol may be in GS. Also being that cars are sold with built in understeer so nobody gets hurt,only driving off the outside of a curve instead, has anyone disconnected the front or front and rear,just to see?

 

The rule book is your friend.

http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?reference=rules

 

namwob - just to summarize what you'd find in JustGoForIt's link, the SCCA has a rule, dating back to the stone age, which says you can change the *front* swaybar and remain in the stock class. You cannot touch the rear swaybar in stock - ie, you can't disconnect it, you can't remove it, you can't add an aftermarket unit, you can't change the bushing, anything.

And what no one has exactly said, but basically every experienced autocrosser sorta either subliminally or conciously knows is that because autocross is quite different from running on a track, sometimes transitional response is more important than overall handling balance. Ie, "how fast can this car turn 15 degrees to the left and then immeadiately turn 20 degrees to the right" is often more important than "does this car understeer when going through a 120 degree sweeeper".

So often for stock class cars, a bigger front swaybar can be the ticket even if it increases understeer in sweepers (and on a camber limited car like a mini, the increase in understeer may or may not actually happen). On a GS Cooper S, though, it may not work because they already have enough wheelspin. Heck my HS Cooper lights up the inside tire a little bit exiting the corners! So overall, the front swaybar thing is complicated Fortunately, I'm very lazy, so I'll run with the one that came from the factory and avoid the whole "actually being fast" thing

 

Thanks,

 

No Problem.

The SCCA rules are hard to get a grip on. You basically have to know what you're going to read before you can read it Lawyers, I suppose

 

Has anyone had a custom front sway bar made for their MINI, bigger or smaller? If so where did you get it? I got a quote from H-Sport some time ago and I think they wanted something like $425+.

 

Here is a recap of a post from Nov 2004.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=23152

Stock size for MCS is 24mm. H&R makes a 27MM solid front bar with no adjustment points. H-Sport makes a 27MM hollow bar which they claim is a 16% increase over stock that has two adjustment points.

$248 shipping?
http://outmotoring.com/h_r_front_sway_bar.html
$217 plus shipping
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/htm...RODUCT_ID=70416
$210 shipping?
http://www.minituner.com/products/?productID=224





H Sport now offers its tubular front sway bar for the Mini. Two-position adjustable, this tubular front bar is perfect for those who want to dramatically decrease front roll while at the same time, transforming the initial steering input from fairly vague to very precise. H Sport recommends one of its two rear bars for this application if your Mini sees track day time. The kit comes complete with polyurethane bushings, bushing brackets and zerk fittings for easy occasional lube. The sway bar itself is brilliant black powdercoated.
1 1/16" (27mm) Hollow
Rate Increse Over Stock
Front: +16% & +27%


Retail price: $130.95
http://www.h-sport.com/cgi-bin/EDCs...atalogno=22800F

 

Vague steering input? Are we talking about a Buick or something?

 

That is a quote from the manufacturer. Read this thread for a more detailed discussion.
http://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ead.php?t=23152

 

FWIW, The Nuzzo Motorsport MINIs that run in Grand Am Cup, don't run any front anti-roll bar. At least they didn't at Laguna.

Jim Williams

 

Thanks Jim, for those of you who referenced larger after market front bars what I'm looking for is a custom but SMALLER front bar in combination with stiffer springs for my coilovers, to add mechanical grip. Swaybars actually cause a vehicle to have LESS total grip available. I am not willing to have no front bar though as my MINI is at least a part time street car and the spring rates required to run no front bar would be way to high for me on the street even with my KW's excellent dampening characteristics.

 

Is it legal in a stock class to run with the front bar disconnected?

 

Yes, you may replace or disconnect your front bar in stock classes.

 

Yeah, I participated in that discussion. I just find it amusing that anyone would call a stock Cooper's turn-in response "vague." Even without the Sport Plus suspension option a Cooper has about as quick and responsive turn-in as any stock car I've ever driven (and I work in the car business; have driven hundreds of different cars) with the possible exception of the Lancer Evolution.