I was looking for some advice for some G-Stock mod advice, I was going with STX but after some veteran mini advice, I have come to terms with staying in G-stock until I no longer enjoy my mini. Here is the list I have compiled

SSR Comps or AK Monza's in 16X6.5
Hoosier A3S03 215/40/16
Koni Yellows --- Will these take me out of stock class since the rears require drilling the stock plate?
Miltek Exhaust
Unifilter drop in air filter
Nology hotwires
Denso plugs
Scroth 4 point mini harness
and last but certainly not least, Phase 1, 2 and 3 evo schools!!

Does the list look complete??

Would any of you make any changes? Maybbe a lighter exhaust, like the quicksilver? Different shocks?

 

Definitely the Evo schools! I got to do the first one last weekend and it helped tremendously. In my first competitive autocross today, I took 3rd place, and was only behind the leader (another MCS) by less than 0.2 seconds.

Here is what I ran today:

Stock MCS with:

9mm plug wires from http://www.webbmotorsports.com (these are new and not on Randy's website)
Denso Iridium plugs
K&N drop in filter
Schroth 4 point mini harness
OEM V-spoke 16-6.5's with Hoosier RS03's

Exhaust is next on my list, and I'll likely have one before the next race.

The truth is, for novices like us, subtle things like the difference between the weight of an exhaust system really don't make any difference.

For this season, I am not going to mess with suspension, as the MINI comes with a pretty good stock setup that is beyond my ability to push it to the limits.

Truth is, the only mods I have done that really make a difference at my ability are tires and the harness.

I chose the OEM 16" wheels because I got a great deal on them, but would have gone with the AK Monza's if I was buying them new. If I were to buy tires again, I would most likely go with the Falken Azenis. Much Much cheaper than Hoosiers and fantastically grippy. They will also be a better tire in the event of rain, as they do have some ability to channel water from the tread. You could save a lot of money and not lose hardly any performance with these tires.

If your budget has you choosing between a mod or Evo school, definitely do the driving school over any mod.

Chances are that with the same tires, I would drive the course the same speed regardless of how much money I put into other mods.

Good luck out there and have fun!
_________________

SE Regional, BAMA Club Moderator: PM me

 

How about a Supertrapp for a lighter exhaust at a whole 4lbs.

Ignore the plugs, wires, and coil until you become a much better driver. Even then you may not want to bother. The filter won't do much, but probably more than the plugs and stuff for a better price.

I just swapped to Koni SA's and compared times on identical courses (schools I teach on Saturday and Sunday) with same ambient temperature. I couldn't beat my best Saturday run of 28.5 but was running consistantly the same (28.6 - 28.8 ). The point is, they flatten the car and give you the ability to run even pressures but still allow the ability to make the car rotate if needed.
Running full "FIRM" rear with full "SOFT" in the front allowed a good amount of rotation, while changing the fronts to full "FIRM" kept the car very flat with less rotation, but yet it still didn't understeer any more than stock.

I will be using the 205/45R16 S04's after my 215's wear out. Speaking with Jeff Spear again, there *may* not be a 215 coming out since the 205 is almost the same exact size as the 215 S03 was.

I've got a harness, but I use a CG Lock instead. Among other things, it's MUCH easier to get in and out of.

Brian

_________________
2002 SCCA Pro Solo H Stock Champion/ STX Cooper S in 2003/G Stock Cooper S in 2004. Moderator: PRO SOLO and G STOCK
garfield@northamericanmotoring.com

 

Brian,

Are you saying that with the Koni's you could not beat your best time with the stock suspension?

What is the difference between the S03's and S04's? I'm already thinking ahead about the next set of tires I will order, and want the best performance and wear possible. Right now I have the S03's in the 215/16 size.

I may very well switch to the Falken Azenis, as they are so much cheaper and probably perform about the same as Hoosiers for a novice such as myself.

Oh, and I changed the spark plugs and filter simply because at 20k miles, it was time to do so. Might as well have a cleanable K&N instead of having to order a replacement filter online or drive 2 hours to the nearest dealer . . .

The fancy 9mm red plug wires just look cool and accent the red oil and coolant caps I got when some place had a close-out internet special. I have to be honest and say that I cannot notice any performance improvement by switching to the red anodized aluminum oil and coolant caps

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Now, I don't believe they are slower because of some other variables. 1) I had a fever and was exhausted 2) It changed the car enough, and I only took 6 runs on the course to try to beat the time 3) The time I had on Saturday was a REALLY good run, can't recall a mistake 4) It was only a 30 second, 1st gear course.
All of this said, my point was that they are not better or worse, but simply allow adjustment for conditions/driving style, which to me would give them the win.
***These were the Single Adjustables, NOT Double Adjustables***

The S04's will definitely last longer and could possibly stick better because of their construction, even though the compound is the same.

Yeah, if you can get those parts cheap, and you're doing the maintanence, good deal. But otherwise, you're much better off taking advantage of the oils being free game. Red Line and Royal Purple are good ones for engine and tranny. You may even see something on the butt dyno...

Brian

 

Any mod shows something positive on the very inaccurate and optimistic butt dyno

Thanks for the great tips, Brian. It's a real asset to the MINI racing community to have you here and willing to share your knowledge with the novices

 

I appreciate the compliments. That's also why I teach Novice Schools (which by the way, involve many MINI driving instructors and participants).

If I can remember, I'll give feedback on the Koni SA's on a bigger course, but I won't be switching from stock to Koni again.

Brian

 

If this is you are a novice, stick with the stock tires/street tires for your first races, maybe even your first season. The Hoosiers will make you better than you are, and they will mask mistakes that street tires would let you know you where making. When you are cranking on the street tires, go to hoosiers and you will now have the skill to truly take advantage of the new grip. Our local cooper queen dropped 3 secs on her times between stock and hoosiers. She is very fast, but is going to stay on stocktires because it will help her learn more. When she is constistantly maxing her stock tires, she will move up and begin the learning curve for good tires. This truly is a case of slow in fast out.

Uber

 

While I agree with Uber (and most autocrossers) that street tires will give you more feedback, especially when you're overdriving which is very common for Novices, I disagree that more than a couple of events needs to be spent on street tires.
As a matter of fact, my recommendation would be to start with a couple of schools on street tires, then buy the R Compounds if you choose to race on them.

Every car handles completely differently once shod with R Compounds. So in MY mind, you're getting used to something that is only going to change when you move to R Compounds.
I drove up to my first autocross (having watched two and asked plenty of questions) with new R Compounds on an extra set of wheels and brand new helmet. I've never regretted having started on R Compounds.

Having said THAT, Hoosiers are definitely not a good idea to start on. Their slip angle is much smaller than Kumho V700's, Toyos, or the old Yokohama A008RSII's that I started on.
What this means is that once the Hoosiers start to slip, they'll let go completely sooner than the others. In other words, you have more time to catch yourself on the other tires.
But since Yucca already has the Hoosiers, I figured he didn't want to buy another set of R Compounds.

I won't claim that this is the only approach, only that it's worked fine for many a good driver coming out of our schools.

Brian

 

>>Any mod shows something positive on the very inaccurate and optimistic butt dyno
>>
>>Thanks for the great tips, Brian. It's a real asset to the MINI racing community to have you here and willing to share your knowledge with the novices


I concur 1000% with YuccaP! Brian: THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR WISDOM AND EXPERIENCE. All we morons need now is a little bit of your skill and we should be set......

SAD news....my JCW kit puts in in ASP but it's not about winning anyways.....

 

>>If this is you are a novice, stick with the stock tires/street tires for your first races, maybe even your first season. The Hoosiers will make you better than you are, and they will mask mistakes that street tires would let you know you where making. When you are cranking on the street tires, go to hoosiers and you will now have the skill to truly take advantage of the new grip. Our local cooper queen dropped 3 secs on her times between stock and hoosiers. She is very fast, but is going to stay on stocktires because it will help her learn more. When she is constistantly maxing her stock tires, she will move up and begin the learning curve for good tires. This truly is a case of slow in fast out.
>>
>>Uber
>>


Actually she droped the time going to my car on the 710s... Amanda has learned all she can on the stock tires!!!! I found her a great deal on some used Toyo r1s that will fit her stock 7 hole wheels.... she should have them mounted by SEDIV event #1.... I think she was fine on street tires untill now but at this point the street rubber is just a frustration as she strives for better times....

Oh BTW ... Ubber... You won some goodies on Sunday by taking the Novice Class win.... PM me if you are not on the ATL solo list....

 

So what sort of cars do you have to race against in ASP?

 

ASP includes Z-06 corvettes, Lotus Elans and Porsche 911's. Fast, really fast.

 

Only additions I can think of is bag of ice to cool the intercooler between runs and brake pads with a higher coefficient of friction.

 

Yes, bag of ice is on my list for the next race

Be careful with upgrading brake pads, as many of the "racing" pads are designed to work best at high temperatures. For short autocross races, they may not get to their optimum operating temperature before the run is through and may be weak at the beginning.

 

I understand that there are rule books for these kinds of questions, but I'm looking for interpratation and clarification.

Oh, what's an Evo class and are they held in the Chicago area?

 

>>I understand that there are rule books for these kinds of questions, but I'm looking for interpratation and clarification.
>>
>>Oh, what's an Evo class and are they held in the Chicago area?

Anything you can order on the car that is FACTORY installed (NOT DEALER installed) is ok in stock... Sooo as an example... a Cooper can have the SS+ option or the sport seat option and stay in stock... but 17" S lites are not ok for stock b/c that is a dealer installed option... same thing with the works kit on a MCS it is dealer installed so a no go in stock... Keep in mind stock is not totaly stock... some items inc. Cat back Exhaust, front sway bar, shocks. can be replaced within certain guidelines...

Evo short for Evolution Schools are a private company that puts on multiple levels of autocross schools.... see http://www.autocross.com/evolution/ for more info... they put on schools all over the usa...

Hope that helps a little...

 

Thanks for all the advice. I ran in most of the MidDiv events last year(won all but my 1st of the local events, not much quality competition though but there were occassionally some competitive entrants), a prosolo in Topeka(5th out of 7) and nationals(13th out of 21 in BSP) so I'm not exactly a novice, but on the other hand, I'm not in the class that Brian G is in. :smile: Hope fully some day though. I'm set for the Evo schools next month so hopefully that will help, I'm sure it will.

Brian,
I just changed my order from S03's to S04's, so I definitely appreciate the input on that.

I have the AK Monza's(I really want some Kodiaks, maybe later on), the Unifilter drop-in, Koni SA's, Scroth 4 point harness. Plug wires and denso plugs all on the way. I guess I need to look into the supertrapp exhaust next, although its probably going to be a loud one isn't it? Also, I hear its mounted on only one side so the tips in the center will no longer be shown, which sucks but I guess you have to give up some looks for performance.

I'll post results after Sundays event!!!

OH, on the front sway bar, would I be better off switching to the Mini Cooper front sway or maybe the Koni's and some air pressure will cure the understeer?

 

If you want to "cure" the understeer, let off the gas and unwind the wheel...seriously. All FWD cars will understeer as long as the wheel is turned too far and too much gas is applied. One of the ways to be fast in FWD's is to learn that slowing down WILL make you speed up.
But yes, with the Konis at full Firm in the rear and full soft in the front, you shouldn't be looking for much more rotation, and that's with even tire pressures.

I'm personally not going to change my front bar at all. I don't think the benefits (less wheel spin) outweigh the drawbacks of a softer bar (more body roll). I think it's equal and you're not gaining anything if you learn to modulate. It's so minimal either way.

Here are the reasons I originally did the Supertrapp:
1) A weight savings of 31lbs (35 out, 4 in)
2) A little extra power, and somewhat of a cool British sound.
3) The ability to change it for the best power curve.
4) A side exit allowing the mounting of a hitch to pull tires.
If you don't care about any of those, then don't go with a Supertrapp.

Brian

 

I guess I'll have to get use to driving FWD, I was in a 350Z last year so its a big change, although the Z had a good bit of understeer. I think I may go with the Supertrapp, I like the weight savings for sure, that alone is worth the mod, not to mention the slight power gains.

As far as tire pressures what do you recommend to start with? Maybe somewhere around 38lbs on all corners on the S04's for asphalt?

thanks again for the advice!

 

If I had to guess, you're spot on with the S04's, but it's possible they'll even be lower. I wasn't using the pyrometer (at least not for myself) this past weekend, but left my 215 S03's at 40psi front and rear.

Brian

 

I just got the S04's, the weight of them for 205/45/16's is 18.8lbs on our lab scale.

Unfortunately, the AK Monza's never arrived and no tracking number was provided by my supplier so I decided to spend the extra bucks on the SSR Comps and have them next day shipped for an extra $100 so they will be here in the morning.

So, the total weight of the A3S04's and the SSR's will be 29.8lbs!!!! Or 20lbs per corner lighter than stock 17's and run flats!!!!

Can't wait for Sunday!

 

>>>> Our local cooper queen dropped 3 secs on her times between stock and hoosiers. She is very fast, but is going to stay on stocktires because it will help her learn more. When she is constistantly maxing her stock tires, she will move up and begin the learning curve for good tires. This truly is a case of slow in fast out.
>>>>
>>>>Uber
>>>>
>>
>>
>>Actually she droped the time going to my car on the 710s... Amanda has learned all she can on the stock tires!!!! I found her a great deal on some used Toyo r1s that will fit her stock 7 hole wheels.... she should have them mounted by SEDIV event #1.... I think she was fine on street tires untill now but at this point the street rubber is just a frustration as she strives for better times....



Hey, look at that- I'm a cooper queen! lol I see what happens when I only look at H-stock and don't pay enough attention to the other race boards...

Uber (that name just cracks me up! ...you don't wanna know, really) you are right in that my plan was to stick to the street tires until my times were consistent. at the school, I had several runs in the 53's then got it down to 53.0xx before I took Jason's car out for a single run with the eye-opening time of 50.8xx. at the event the next day the difference was only .18 sec between my first run and my last. of course, it was still a 58.40 compared to the local Cooper Pro (uh, that would be conecarver) at 51.541. so I feel like Jason is right, it is probably time for me to change my tires. I did some performance mods with some of this years tax refund, and one of the things I did was get the Konis. now I have a question- Brian, are you saying that if you had to do it over again, you wouldn't get them? does this apply only to the MCS? does the MCS have stonger OEM shocks than the MC? I can feel a big difference in my car now, but I changed so much all at once its hard to know what it was... lol

thanks to all you guys for being so generous and sharing your hard earned wisdom- I feel like I really do stand on the shoulders of giants here.

Amanda
#64 HSL

 

What I'm saying is that the Koni SA's are helpful to dial the car for certain conditions, but whether they'll gain you any time is certainly up in the air, and I doubt it. Keep in mind, I got them from a sponsor (Mini Mania) and installed myself (well, fellow autoxers did most of the work), so they cost me nothing. Knowing what I know now and my financial position, I wouldn't bother with them. If you have the money to burn, you should be buying the DA's anyway.
So, if you're looking for a cheap way to change the handling and get some rotation, try tire pressures and maybe a tad of toe change in the rear.

Brian

 

Amanda...

The Konis may not make a huge difference but they will help some .. esp when conditions change...(think rain)... so don't think the konis were a waste... I plan to get some later on... SA (singles like yours) at first then convert them to DA (double adjustable) later still.... DAs are the "hot" setup so you are already half way there.... (ie you can send konis to a service center and have them converted to DA or change valving ect)...