Drivers with '05 cars with the factory LSD have had a few runs now. Is the factory LSD at all useful in autocross. I sure the new gearing has helped but I would like to know what everyone thinks. It would be very helpful if you could compare 05 with and without LSD.
Thanks
John

 

There is some guys in our region who sold Pre 05's + a new owner who all have 05's now.
Most have had an event where they were near the top of the pax charts + a couple of events where they CRUSHED all of us.
They NEVER did THAT before..
Hmmmm....4 different drivers all of a sudden got to be the best drivers in our region?
Impossible? No. Is the 05 LSD/gearing/etc. faster? Uh....yea...
Don't know the difference between the LSD/nonLSD 05 cars...
Hard to say what makes the 05 appear to be so much better at autox.
A combo of things?
FM

 

If you're in a region with fast courses, yes, it makes more of a difference. The tighter and slower the course, the less the diff does. On a postage stamp with old tires, it felt like it didn't exist. On the faster Fed Ex lot courses, I can really feel it hook up well.

The gearing definitely helped with acceleration, however, we would've been better off had they left the taller gearing with the LSD. The lower gearing gives it the same low-end grunt problem it had before without the LSD. This is why the tighter courses makes it difficult to make use of the diff.

Is it worlds faster as Mike might indicate and I predicted? Nope. If I had to GUESS, I'd say it's good for about .5 second. But that half second can sometimes be the difference between G Stock and D Stock at the National level.

Brian

 

Come on Mike....4 different drivers??? Aaron and Abe are the only ones that had Pre-05's and bought the 05s with LSD. I came in from driving a WRX on street tires last year. None of us ran PAX last year - so you have no data points (but technically you are right - we "never did that before."

And for what it is worth - I would have beaten you by over half a Pax second with a DS index last event. As a matter of fact - I beat your ES Miata scratch time by over .2 seconds. All of this, and I wouldn't have beaten Glen Hernandez's DS time if I ran a DS index. Maybe you should start campaigning for the Miata to move to GS.

Jake

 

Also, just to let you guys know, GS from last season, WITHOUT LSD Mini's, they beat DS in exactly 3 out of 9 events during the National Tour. So, my point is, just because the LSD Mini's are beating DS times at national tours some this season, the same thing was happening last season with the Celica's and non-LSD mini's, so, nothing is really all that new this season.

Oh, and, Mike, I do believe 2 of those 4 that you speak of did beat Bob Tunnell in Atwater, who was also in a Mini, so, those guys are no pushovers IMO, not that you are either by any means. Besides, you guys have a really tough region up there, I could see several trophies from Nats heading up your way come September!!!

 

Do you think you are a better driver than Glen?
I consider him one of our top 3 drivers in this region.
Is Glen beatable? Yes but he is(was) a good bet for pax wins.

AaronP beat me at Packwood(first time?/rain though). That makes 4.
I have lots of data racing Abe before he got his 05. Heck! I got him by 2.5 seconds or something at Tour with the Celi last year. + he raced with us all year in 03.
Look what those guys did at SCCA 4.
He is driving better now + the new car. Jason is a good driver.
You are a good driver.
You are running well. I have been watching your runs closely. Just seems odd that everyone with 05 lsd Mini's are breaking through.
Car? Driver? Both? For all 4 drivers?
Possible? Impossible? Anything is possible.
Glen is faster this year too now that he is on 710's.
I used to have a TOUGH time beating him(and everyone else) with the Celica. NO WAY would I be able to keep up with the Celi now. Maybe I suck though.

LOL!
Don't I wish I could have a GS index with the MiataR!
You haven't just been kicking my pax butt but others too.

I said it in some other post on other boards.
Is the MiniS moving to DS?
Nope.
Is the PAX #'s going to change SIGNIFICANTLY?
I bet they are going to.

I have been telling people that you are driving well.
The "rumor" is out there(not just from me either)that the 05 GS Mini is a pax killer. If I was driving one I might feel that my accomplishments are being overshadowed by the "rumor".
I somewhat feel bad that your great perfomances lately are getting the comma after them.
I would be pissed about that.....OH! WAIT! that is what they used to say about me in the Celica LOL!. I'm sure you will survive it.

FM

 

Is the MINI a PAX killer? Yep. Is it because of the LSD? Nope. It was already a PAX killer along with all of G Stock, to some extent.

I feel your pain, and knew it before I got the '05. I even told my wife that regional competition was going to be easier, especially her in our PAX'd Ladies class (although she had won in the '02 a couple of times). Still wish I had done the Miata now, for more reasons than one.

Anyhow, if you check our PAX standings, you'll see it doesn't hurt to not only have a MINI, but a Celica as well.
http://solo.wdcr-scca.org
(BTW, the July event got flawed, the heat with DSP, CSP, and BSP had a faster course due to a flawed worker )
Anyhow, the only reason I don't sweat it is because I had plenty of fast PAX's before, so people don't give me crap about the MINI. That, and I'm still running Road Race compounds at local events. That will probably end though once I get a surplus of used V710's.

So, I wouldn't argue about the PAX stuff. There's a strong mental build-up from faster PAX's which causes you to have more confidence in your driving. Therefore, people may be driving really well due to increased confidence. I'm TRULY experiencing this with Julian (7yr old in kart). During qualifying he had a really good pass. Then, all of the sudden, he had NO endurance problem the rest of the race...

Is the PAX easier? Yep. Does it still take a great driver to rise to the top? Yep.

Brian

 

I am glad you see reality.
Jake now running 710's all the time is what is a bummer for us.
He is going to be HARD to beat no matter how good anyone else drives.
That is my opinion/futureprediction...just a guess...other "topdogs" in my region with "less big mouths" than me agree...

Brian: I feel sorry for your competitors when you stop running road race compounds and start running 710's all the time.
Is your region going to freak out or are we just whiny up here?LOL!
Most top pax runners DO run good tires(most on 710's now which are fast for MANY runs) for local events here.

FM

 

Truthfully? I've jumped in every different car at schools and gone fast enough to show there's a reason why I'm up there. I've heard of a couple of whiners, but most believe the PAX is "flawed" anyhow.

Also, I always feel like I've driven MUCH better at local events because of the lack of pressure. Case in point, Ian Baker at last year's Nationals. He had never beaten me locally or Nationally before then and look at the difference at Nationals. Of course, the pressure is all part of it, so I'm still trying to learn to deal with it.
Anyhow, my point was that some people may not have incredible National results but could blow people away locally, don't take that to mean it's the car. The MINI is purely confidence inspiring.

I'm looking forward to running something other than a MINI at the Divisional to hopefullly further prove the point. It's been awhile.

No matter what people say, you still need to be a top driver in the region to get to the top of the PAX like that. You might have an easier "win" than others, but there are others in '05 MINIs that aren't even close. If you're winning PAX by a full second, it WASN'T all the car.

You have to have an open mind and realize that other people drive just as well and have difficult PAX's. The only true comparison will always be SAME EXACT car, different drivers.
I'm still waiting for a multi-car spec shootout.
1) F125
2) D Mod Caterham
3) CP Mustang
4) CSP Miata
5) Stock Lotus Elise?
Something like that...

Brian

 

You guys up in the Northwest are MUCH MUCH more competitive than my local region. Heck, sometimes its a month before results are even posted which is why I feel our region is not competitive, especially considering its hard to remember what happened last night, not to mention what happened at last months autocross when results finally post.

As far as PAX is concerned, I agree completely with Brain here, last years PAX was even soft. In the 04 WITHOUT LSD, I was still able to take highest average PAX in the DIVISION, let alone the region. So, you can only imagine whats happening this season with LSD in our division. BUT, I feel that its driver induced PAX results. My Co-Driver, in the same car that was one spot out of trophies, was probably 10th on the average PAX for the division, so, its still not a gimmie for a PAX win.

As far as driving other cars to show driver capability, I beat one of my Evo challenge instructors by 1 full second in a car that we both had never autocrossed. The other instructor, we were within .1 of eachother and he's a national champ.

My point is not to support my results because I really don't care about boasting my results, its to support that Jake is getting it done this season because he's driving the tires off the car, he beat me at San Diego at the NT so I know he has the potential to get it done. Heck, Jake, Jason Spore and Abe Douglas are a very unique trio for one region, they could easily all be top 7 or 8 at nats this year in GS IMO. That kind of driver coupled with the easier PAX means that if they drive that way locally, they will really push the PAX race in any region. Also, Mike, your obviously a top notch drivier, maybe you should make the switch and buy a Mini! Unfortunately, if you wait until next season, the PAX may be too tough by then though!!

I think next season, it needs to probably be .005 or so lower than DS. On probably 70% of courses, with equal drivers, DS will still win which means the PAX should closer to DS, but still a bit lower IMO.

 

Why?? Could you please explain why lower gearing (which makes it much more powerful off the line) gives it a low-end grunt problem?

 

I have not noticed any adverse problems with the gearing, other than the rev-limiter has been a problem on some of the really fast courses. I think what he was saying was what I have experienced. I don't think the gearing has helped with low end grunt at all on tight courses, its still really slow coming out of tight corners in 2nd, and, if you go down to 1st, which is't recommended anyway, wheel spin is still an issue on corner exit.

 

What I'm talking about is that you have more power application at a lower speed with the new gearing. As I have been told, but experienced beforehand, the LSD has more difficulty on the tighter slower speed turns, breaking a wheel loose more often and not locking up.

Had the gearing not changed, IMO, the car throttle would've been less "touchy". That feeling was experienced the same at the non-LSD car at even higher speeds.

Kinda hard to explain, but in a sport where a car with 50hp less (Cooper) can run as fast as the car with 50hp more (Cooper S) on certain courses, it can all be attributed to the lack of grip on corner exit. As much as the gearing helps in many places, it also hurts on corner exits because of the explosive power overpowering the ability for the differential to lock-up.

Understand it or not, I'd take my previous '02 car with the same LSD over my '05 with it, especially on the tighter autocross courses.

Brian

 

Assuming the factory JCW is classed as something other than ASP, what happens with respect to updating of older MCSs? Can it be done?

Thanks,
-->Aaron

p.s. Never mind. I guess I should be reading this thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=47107

 

OK, with a season of experience using lowered gearing and factory LSD in the MCS, NOW what do you owners think?

I myself have recently driven an 05' MCS with new gearing and LSD and it was very different from my 03' MCS with tall gearing and Quaife.

I almost felt like the new 05' 2nd gear was nearing/hitting redline during my runs and I was thinking about 3rd gear which I never do in the 03' MCS. And what goes up must come down- so at some point if you do reach 3rd gear you might need to heel-toe downshift (another thing I never do in autocross).:impatient